Joint Terror Task Force Mafia Day 3 - All is Well!

[DiM]

i think we should judge this based on risk vs reward

NoS, if we lynch him and his claim (doc) is true, we lose a power role for town. big risk
jak, if we lynch him and his claim (one shot cop) is true then we'll lose a VT. small risk
jgordon, if we lynch him and his claim (investigator) is true, we lose a power role for town. big risk

based on this i'd say to lynch jak. worst case scenario we lose a VT and out a mafia to lynch the next day (NoS), best case scenario he turns out to be mafia and we indirectly confirm NoS as a doc.

any thoughts on my logic before i cast my vote?

[jgordon1111]

Damn vodean you been drinking again?

It comes down to this I believe, NoS tried a balsy move and jak got him,or jak is mafia trying to take out the doc.

We hang Nos and he is the doc we have jaks ass in the slinger,but we lose 2 for one.

Same scenario we hang jak we lost a valuable asset if he is telling the truth again 2 for one scenario.

Jak can pull mafia off by himself.

NoS maybe not,And it would take sheer guts for them to pop up and say claim doc.

My first campin killer game,anyone know if he gives out possible fake claims to mafia?

The answer to that question could be helpful if anyone knows. Remember small game here.

Fast posted by Dim

[LSU Tiger Josh]

Where did Jak say he was "only a 1 shot investigation". I thought he claimed a jack of all trades with one shot for investigations which if that is the case could still be pretty damn helpful to the town.

[LSU Tiger Josh]

nevermind just found it again.

[Iron Butterfly]

i think we should judge this based on risk vs reward

NoS, if we lynch him and his claim (doc) is true, we lose a power role for town. big risk
jak, if we lynch him and his claim (one shot cop) is true then we'll lose a VT. small risk
jgordon, if we lynch him and his claim (investigator) is true, we lose a power role for town. big risk

based on this i'd say to lynch jak. worst case scenario we lose a VT and out a mafia to lynch the next day (NoS), best case scenario he turns out to be mafia and we indirectly confirm NoS as a doc.

any thoughts on my logic before i cast my vote?

You make it sound so simple. It would be one thing if it where cut and dry as you suggest but it is not. One has to base their judgement on other factors as well such as how they defend themselves AND what comes out of their mouths. The more I listen to NOS the more I believe he may be scum.

With Jak I find it hard to believe he would out himself so quickly. IF he is mafia that is a big exchange. Even if they get the doc to sacrifice a mafia member so earlier just seems silly. I have participated in many games where a doc has been lost day one or outed and town has still won.

Jgordons role is not as powerful as you seem to make it to be. he can investigate a dead person and get clues as to who killed him. He may be able to tell us if someone were killed by a vig, sk or busdriver. His role gives us a better idea of what Town may be up against but is by no means a game breaker. PLUS it is easy to fake claim. He could pretty much make whatever he wants up and no one could prove otherwise.

I understand your logic do not agree with it as I believe other things must be taken into consideration.

[NoSurvivors]

The more I listen to NOS the more I believe he may be scum.

What is it that I've said to make me sound scummy? Please be reminded that I have only played 2 non rt mafia games with crazy roles lol.. and I dropped out of both of them. So if my lack of knowledge worries you.. then yea it is because I am a noob lol. Also dim, if we did lynch jak today, how does that prove me to be mafia? As I asked earlier, arent there 4 kinds of cops?

[DiM]

You make it sound so simple.

then what do we do? we do need to do something. not lynching will only help mafia, right? at least that's what i've heard in almost every game i've been so far. sometimes a no lynch is acceptable in D1 but we're already on D2.

if this was a real life situation i'd definitely say no lynch cause i can't be certain of any one of them being mafia and i couldn't bare having an innocent on my conscience. but this is a game and as i've been taught not lynching is a poor strategy in the long run. so a leap of faith must be taken here and risks should be assumed.
all of them have good signs as well as bad signs and none stands out too much in one direction or another.

[Campin_Killer]

Right, I'll post a vote count in a second.

In the meantime, deadline is set for August 10, at 5:00 PM CDT

[Campin_Killer]

Vote Count

vodean
DiM
jgordon111 - (1) - IB
Iron Butterfly
DoomYoshi
thehippo8
Count Belisle
NoSurvivors - (2) - DoomYoshi, jak111
LSU Tiger Josh
jak111 - (1) - vodean

Not Voting: LSU, NoS, Count, hippo, Jgordon, DiM

With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch

[jak111]

Well, before DiM goes trying to get me lynched/wagoned, I am no VT yet. Besides that, I do not see a claim is necessary unless it's needed.

I have no clue how JG comes into your conclusion atm, although looking at his claim it is possible fake claim (Here's my guess if he is fake claiming, he may be 3rd party SK and tells everyone the kills are either mafia/sk, and hopes no vig did it).

As for Iron B's statement, he's right. I wouldn't out myself on D2 if I was bad (Haven't been bad yet besides 3rd party in forum mafia lol) but I know I definitely wouldn't out myself unless I had to. A doc claim could be taken care of subtly at night (WIFOM enough that people will pretend to watch/protect doc). Plus, I do kinda hold myself a little high sometimes, so I wouldn't out myself on a sketchy claim at best. (No one said anything about what Medic does yet! Campin may have odd roles, but he wouldn't change a classic role unless it had something else to it).

Another reason again, his is WIFOM of protecting mafia if he used his role.. I find that hard to believe.

Fastposted by Campin's VC

[DiM]

is vodean's vote not counting? or did you forget to place it?
i know there are roles that can steal votes or roles that can't vote.

[DiM]

Well, before DiM goes trying to get me lynched/wagoned, I am no VT yet.

wait, what?
you posted here that you had a one-shot cop ability and you can't help town anymore because you have no more power roles:

Just avoiding unwanted attention, now that I used my 1 shot ability and it did us good, there's no need for me to hide (I can't help town anymore with power roles v.v).

so you clearly said that 1 had 1 ability and you used it and you had no more power roles.

now, 5 days later you claim you still have some power roles?

very, very fishy.

[Campin_Killer]

is vodean's vote not counting? or did you forget to place it?
i know there are roles that can steal votes or roles that can't vote.

What are you talking about, I see vodean's vote!!

[jak111]

Well, before DiM goes trying to get me lynched/wagoned, I am no VT yet.

wait, what?
you posted here that you had a one-shot cop ability and you can't help town anymore because you have no more power roles:

Just avoiding unwanted attention, now that I used my 1 shot ability and it did us good, there's no need for me to hide (I can't help town anymore with power roles v.v).

so you clearly said that 1 had 1 ability and you used it and you had no more power roles.

now, 5 days later you claim you still have some power roles?

very, very fishy.

It's to avoid being lynched. Think of it not as lying, but as being a secret agent that acts as people's guardian angel and to protect them, he must only share what he must, and not what they do not need to know. As one man said that I can't seem to find his name for the quote but here it goes

Some secrets are best left undiscovered.

That winky face, now that's fishy, I'm not sure if you're trying to tell me it's not fishy or crack a joke, but it's giving me some weird vibes, not in the mafia sense, but in the sense that I shall never have my back turned toward you.

Like I said though, unless NEEDED, I do not see a full claim necessary atm.

[DiM]

Well, before DiM goes trying to get me lynched/wagoned, I am no VT yet.

wait, what?
you posted here that you had a one-shot cop ability and you can't help town anymore because you have no more power roles:

Just avoiding unwanted attention, now that I used my 1 shot ability and it did us good, there's no need for me to hide (I can't help town anymore with power roles v.v).

so you clearly said that 1 had 1 ability and you used it and you had no more power roles.

now, 5 days later you claim you still have some power roles?

very, very fishy.

It's to avoid being lynched. Think of it not as lying, but as being a secret agent that acts as people's guardian angel and to protect them, he must only share what he must, and not what they do not need to know. As one man said that I can't seem to find his name for the quote but here it goes

Some secrets are best left undiscovered.

to avoid being LYNCHED? WHAT? so to avoid being LYNCHED you did NOT tell us you have other roles that might HELP town?
how on earth would that help you avoid being lynched? i think you meant to say you wanted to avoid getting KILLED by mafia but you scumslipped.
secret agent? guardian angel? come on? you lied plain and simple. either when you first claimed or now. one of those instances is a lie and i'm more inclined to see it as now.

That winky face, now that's fishy, I'm not sure if you're trying to tell me it's not fishy or crack a joke, but it's giving me some weird vibes, not in the mafia sense, but in the sense that I shall never have my back turned toward you.

really? winky face? fishy?

i think you have just become really, really desperate. lies, guardian angels and fishy winky faces all add up to a vote from me.

vote jak111

[jak111]

Interesting DiM, you're on my like a hound dog.

I think it should be clear that when I say to avoid being lynch when I QUOTED your post it is in the context that I am claiming a bit more to avoid being lynched because of your "Oh he's a VT, let's lynch him" gig.

If town lynches NoS and he pops scum like my cop shot told me, then I will have my eyes on and around you DiM. Like Iron B pointed out, your logic was flawed earlier today and it's still flawed now.

Besides you and Vodean voting me, I have no need to claim, so whatever I bring forth is on my own free will, I've never been at L-2 or anywhere close to it. So any information from me DiM is given by me on my own free will. That's another thing you're passing up in calling me a liar. I'm playing the town some cards whenever I feel they are needed or useful. The one shot claim earlier today was to protect myself from being a target of mafia tonight, but circumstances changed.

Let me point you toward something DiM. I haven't been at L2, so I'm not under pressure to tell the town anything. I'm allowed to play cards to protect myself from being a target for Mafia. That's why people never mass claim so they aren't targets for mafia.

So take my posts as you will, but I'm one known to only playing cards when needed or useful, not when one or two people hope I give them everything they want.

[DiM]

Interesting DiM, you're on my like a hound dog.

not really. it just happens that we're both online at the same time and posting in sync.
aren't you a little paranoid? first the fishy wink, now the hound dog....

I think it should be clear that when I say to avoid being lynch when I QUOTED your post it is in the context that I am claiming a bit more to avoid being lynched because of your "Oh he's a VT, let's lynch him" gig.

i guess you could twist it that way.
i interpreted more as "i didn't tell you my full role in the first place to avoid getting lynched" which sounded like a scum slip. figured you wanted to say you wanted to avoid getting killed by mafia and slipped and said to avoid getting lynched.

now you say you were meaning "i told you my full role now because you considered me a vt and were planning to lynch me"
i guess this fits too. it's just a matter of perspective.
nevertheless, i don't like lies and i've never seen a townie lie about his role in any of the games i've played.

Besides you and Vodean voting me, I have no need to claim, so whatever I bring forth is on my own free will, I've never been at L-2 or anywhere close to it.

both those votes came after you already claimed at the very beginning of day 2. don't know about vodean but i never thought for a single second that there might be any claiming left from you. as i said i've never seen a townie lie.

So take my posts as you will, but I'm one known to only playing cards when needed or useful,

i don't know about that as i haven't played you in many games so i'm not familiar with play styles. to be honest i don't even bother to meta people or remember their quirks.

if somebody knows you better and confirms this then i'm might be tempted to unvote you. but until then i still don't like the lying and the possible scum slip and how convenient your claims seem to be and all the fishy wink hound dog thing.

[vodean]

i think that jak definitely needs to stop withholding info. he is misleading town, and seems to be intentionally side-tracking us.

[Iron Butterfly]

Interesting DiM, you're on my like a hound dog.

I think it should be clear that when I say to avoid being lynch when I QUOTED your post it is in the context that I am claiming a bit more to avoid being lynched because of your "Oh he's a VT, let's lynch him" gig.

If town lynches NoS and he pops scum like my cop shot told me, then I will have my eyes on and around you DiM. Like Iron B pointed out, your logic was flawed earlier today and it's still flawed now.

Besides you and Vodean voting me, I have no need to claim, so whatever I bring forth is on my own free will, I've never been at L-2 or anywhere close to it. So any information from me DiM is given by me on my own free will. That's another thing you're passing up in calling me a liar. I'm playing the town some cards whenever I feel they are needed or useful. The one shot claim earlier today was to protect myself from being a target of mafia tonight, but circumstances changed.

Let me point you toward something DiM. I haven't been at L2, so I'm not under pressure to tell the town anything. I'm allowed to play cards to protect myself from being a target for Mafia. That's why people never mass claim so they aren't targets for mafia.

So take my posts as you will, but I'm one known to only playing cards when needed or useful, not when one or two people hope I give them everything they want.

Jak, while you have been at the bottom of my list suspect wise there is a reason they say Lynch all Liars. Lying and with holding information only makes you look scummy. You can rationalize why you did it all you wish but it still does not change what you have done.

You seem to believe that you are an island onto yourself game play wise. If you were willing to come out because of your investigation you have to trust that others would take care of you, provided that you are truthful. That means if your going to claim then claim. You can not do it half way and act like it is the whole truth and then when pressured reveal you were not fully honest. It ruins your credibility. You can ratianalize your actions all you want but it is how others perceive your actions that counts.

unvote jgordon

[jak111]

Jak, while you have been at the bottom of my list suspect wise there is a reason they say Lynch all Liars. Lying and with holding information only makes you look scummy. You can rationalize why you did it all you wish but it still does not change what you have done.

You seem to believe that you are an island onto yourself game play wise. If you were willing to come out because of your investigation you have to trust that others would take care of you, provided that you are truthful. That means if your going to claim then claim. You can not do it half way and act like it is the whole truth and then when pressured reveal you were not fully honest. It ruins your credibility. You can ratianalize your actions all you want but it is how others perceive your actions that counts.

unvote jgordon

They shouldn't need to waste their night actions on me, instead, I take a different approach once in a while and leave scum in the dark. It's a double edged sword. What I do not tell town, I do not tell scum. What the town presumes I am and I can lay low looking powerless, then I shall do it, if only to help town in the long run. If town are casting doubts, guesses, or suspicions on what I am, that's all the scum would have to go on, is suspicions.

However, I guess keeping my role in hiding wont do me much good at this point. Ever heard of an inventor? My first time coming across one and that's what I do. It's why I let town pressume I was a JOAT, because I pretty much am, just with the added taste of not knowing WHICH role I use on someone.

I used one of my inventions on NoS last night in hopes to WATCH the 'town doc', what I got instead was a cop investigation of a guilty result.

^ THAT's the full information and claim. Sure I'm sorry for misleading town in games, but I'm sure after a few more months, they'll understand my reasoning. For the best mafia players are those who are unguessable, if you follow it to the book all the time, the times when you are scum you'll be too easy to read. If you travel away from it and live on the edge of the book, you tend to be unreadable to town or scum.

Whether my play style is accepted or not, I do not care, you know this IB and so do a few others here. I play my best to help the faction I'm with win. Not to gain trust for future games that haven't happened yet. (That'd be like the few girls on Whirld's Werewolf... I swear.. I feel like knocking them out whenever I'm Werewolf with them... D1 they tell everyone "I'm wolf" so I gotta fend for myself... All because they don't want to be creative and lie to play a game). Sorry if that upsets a few people, but outside of mafia, we're alright, here, I'm gonna do what it takes.

To conform to a belief is to submit, I am not one for submission.

Also, for anyone with information on Inventors (<--- Making this stand out so people do not skip it and only reply to the rest of my post). Are there any strategies in knowing which invention does what? I was presuming 1 would be tracker and 2 would be watcher, but 2 ended up being cop. Are they completely randomized? Or is there some sort of pattern to them mostly?

(Also, technically I didn't lie. For all I know, the rest of the inventions are nothing but air lol).

I started with 5, and used #2, which was the cop ability. Since he made the mistake of not telling to to target two 'potential' targets, I assume none of them are busdrivers. I feel confident that 1 is tracker, 1 watcher, and probably a kill inventions. Perhaps the last is a doc use?

Haha, the more I think about my role, the more I wonder who I'd help more, town or mafia. I might end up accidently protecting the wrong person or killing the wrong person. So far I've helped town with it since I seem to have outed a mafia role. Those who are hesitant to lynch only because he is claimed doc and not because they want more information really need to check themselves. A doc is NOT promised in all games, and if I'm right about one of my actions being protection then there may not be a doc but other roles that help protect people. (Jail keeper is a role blocker AND a doc in one! No one really thinks about how much of a doc it is). Maybe there's an actual JOAT out there that has the ability to protect.... and know what his roles do from the get go.

[jgordon1111]

Who was the MOD on the Two faces mafia? IB you were in that one wasnt there an inventor in that game,because wiki doesnt have anything on inventors.

Thinking Jak you were in that one as well.

[jak111]

Who was the MOD on the Two faces mafia? IB you were in that one wasnt there an inventor in that game,because wiki doesnt have anything on inventors.

Thinking Jak you were in that one as well.

Nope, wasn't in that one.

Also, look harder.

Inventor Role Found by typing in Mafiascum Inventor on Google.....

[Iron Butterfly]

Jak is believable to me.

[DiM]

jak, if you're town, the worst thing you can do is mislead town. lying, even if it's by omitting to mention various details is still lying and can lead to possibly dangerous situations (like me considering you a VT and lynching you). plus it hurts your credibility. for example what guarantee do i have now that you're not lying again?
inventors are usually given various items that he can use at night. it's up to the mod to give you exact details of what the objects do, to give you clues in the name but no clear explanation or to keep you completely in the dark.
for example he could give you a spyglass and tell you it's an investigative role, or leave out the explanation and let you deduce that the spyglass is used for investigations. or simply give you item #1, item #2 and let you discover what each does.
i'm unvoting you at this point since your claim sounds believable and i'm hopping you wouldn't pull the secret agent crap again, but i still do not agree with your strategy. if all town people would withhold information then town would never win.
i see on the wiki link provided above that you can also be mafia. i could have sworn that inventors are only for town.

so what now?


PS: i was an experimenter in a game. very interesting role and somewhat similar to inventor. the difference was that my actions varied according to the role of the target not according to the item used. i'll look it up and post more info when i find the thread.

[DiM]

PS: i was an experimenter in a game. very interesting role and somewhat similar to inventor. the difference was that my actions varied according to the role of the target not according to the item used. i'll look it up and post more info when i find the thread.

lol, it was in the infection game that you moderated.