Chariot of Fire[closed]

[jackal31]

I think if Chuck was offering a warning behind closed doors about the abuse, then he should be commended for his actions. Yeah, it sucks he had to do it. But I would rather play with a bunch of "good guys" than a bunch of cheaters.

[Serbia]

Let me say, good on Chuuuuck for bringing this public. I don't believe it should spare him his level of punishment, but still, regardless of the drama surrounding the report, I for one would like to say "Thank you for making this report."

[pmchugh]

I can't believe that some of the first reactions here are to "question the motives" of the person filing the report. Don't you get that Chuuuck will be looking at a ban (or whatever his level of punishment is) as well as CoF, sonicsteve, Iron Maid, Pedronicus, and some of the others? This report is not what is disgusting, the actions that led to the report are disgusting! This proves what a mockery the whole clan scene has become. And CoF, what a hypocrite! This is truly a new low on CC. And I'm quickly getting fed up with this site. How long have we all been screaming for an account sitting feature, to eliminate this very type of abuse? And are we ANY closer? Such utter bull shit.

Ban those responsible. Ban 'em. Too disgusted to say anything else.

Are people really this surprised? The surprising part of it for me was that they had not yet learned to use proxies to avoid flag changes. The clan scene has been a joke for a long time, at least among the top clans. Also I am not sure an account sitting feature would even help.

Edit: Note that TOFU have clan members from a lot of different clans and no one else protested until now.

[codeblue1018]

I can't believe that some of the first reactions here are to "question the motives" of the person filing the report. Don't you get that Chuuuck will be looking at a ban (or whatever his level of punishment is) as well as CoF, sonicsteve, Iron Maid, Pedronicus, and some of the others? This report is not what is disgusting, the actions that led to the report are disgusting! This proves what a mockery the whole clan scene has become. And CoF, what a hypocrite! This is truly a new low on CC. And I'm quickly getting fed up with this site. How long have we all been screaming for an account sitting feature, to eliminate this very type of abuse? And are we ANY closer? Such utter bull shit.

Ban those responsible. Ban 'em. Too disgusted to say anything else.

Are people really this surprised? The surprising part of it for me was that they had not yet learned to use proxies to avoid flag changes. The clan scene has been a joke for a long time, at least among the top clans. Also I am not sure an account sitting feature would even help.

"at least among the top clans". ????

Not in my clan mate and in my experience, none of the clans that I have played against.

[niMic]

This is so ironic it actually physically hurts my head.

[Serbia]

I can't believe that some of the first reactions here are to "question the motives" of the person filing the report. Don't you get that Chuuuck will be looking at a ban (or whatever his level of punishment is) as well as CoF, sonicsteve, Iron Maid, Pedronicus, and some of the others? This report is not what is disgusting, the actions that led to the report are disgusting! This proves what a mockery the whole clan scene has become. And CoF, what a hypocrite! This is truly a new low on CC. And I'm quickly getting fed up with this site. How long have we all been screaming for an account sitting feature, to eliminate this very type of abuse? And are we ANY closer? Such utter bull shit.

Ban those responsible. Ban 'em. Too disgusted to say anything else.

Are people really this surprised? The surprising part of it for me was that they had not yet learned to use proxies to avoid flag changes. The clan scene has been a joke for a long time, at least among the top clans. Also I am not sure an account sitting feature would even help.

Edit: Note that TOFU have clan members from a lot of different clans and no one else protested until now.

No, I'm not surprised. This isn't the first account sitting abuse report, hell, it's not even the first one involving CoF. So that it's been going on is hardly surprising. But just because I'm not surprised, doesn't mean I'm not thoroughly disgusted.

[lord voldemort]

Respect level ++++

The only way sitting abuse is going to stop was for someone to come out and say it. The evidence is there for the hunters but to corroborate it with games and times and game chat. This puts the icing on the cake. I dont see cof walking away from this one at all.
I also find it pretty pathetic that youre having a go at him for it. Why would you stand up for someone clearly breaking the rules?? Afraid to have a look at you and your clans sitting patterns??

Should at least encourage lack more and more to finally get that account sitting feature he started working on a few years ago.

[jj3044]

I can't believe that some of the first reactions here are to "question the motives" of the person filing the report. Don't you get that Chuuuck will be looking at a ban (or whatever his level of punishment is) as well as CoF, sonicsteve, Iron Maid, Pedronicus, and some of the others? This report is not what is disgusting, the actions that led to the report are disgusting! This proves what a mockery the whole clan scene has become. And CoF, what a hypocrite! This is truly a new low on CC. And I'm quickly getting fed up with this site. How long have we all been screaming for an account sitting feature, to eliminate this very type of abuse? And are we ANY closer? Such utter bull shit.

Ban those responsible. Ban 'em. Too disgusted to say anything else.

Are people really this surprised? The surprising part of it for me was that they had not yet learned to use proxies to avoid flag changes. The clan scene has been a joke for a long time, at least among the top clans. Also I am not sure an account sitting feature would even help.

"at least among the top clans". ????

Not in my clan mate and in my experience, none of the clans that I have played against.

Same here, we do not condone this nor practice this type of behavior, and if someone was to take turns like this in EMPIRE, we would kick them out immediately.

If this proves to be true... then shame on CoF and the ToFu members who allowed this practice to go on for so long.

[merch313]

Dayum!!! Spent way too much time reading this but dayum!

Whatever the reason for Chuuuck doing this I thank him. Just to see them laughing at whats going on like they are getting one over on the opposing team and CC. SMH....I mean his team mates are all good players and to not let them take their own turns or want to take turns is just a joke IMO.

Just my 2 cents.

Thanks Chuuuk nothing wrong with this wrong is wrong

[pmchugh]

I can't believe that some of the first reactions here are to "question the motives" of the person filing the report. Don't you get that Chuuuck will be looking at a ban (or whatever his level of punishment is) as well as CoF, sonicsteve, Iron Maid, Pedronicus, and some of the others? This report is not what is disgusting, the actions that led to the report are disgusting! This proves what a mockery the whole clan scene has become. And CoF, what a hypocrite! This is truly a new low on CC. And I'm quickly getting fed up with this site. How long have we all been screaming for an account sitting feature, to eliminate this very type of abuse? And are we ANY closer? Such utter bull shit.

Ban those responsible. Ban 'em. Too disgusted to say anything else.

Are people really this surprised? The surprising part of it for me was that they had not yet learned to use proxies to avoid flag changes. The clan scene has been a joke for a long time, at least among the top clans. Also I am not sure an account sitting feature would even help.

"at least among the top clans". ????

Not in my clan mate and in my experience, none of the clans that I have played against.

Are TSM a top clan these days? Also, how do you know it is not happening in the teams you play against? I could name you at least 5 people who have never been convicted but who obviously indulge in this (though I wont), and I am sure plenty I have not noticed have done it too. Maybe it is not always as blatant as this (in that they recognised what they were doing) but I would be surprised if TSM have not benefited from account sitting (even legitimately) at some point.

I am not accusing everyone, as I don't know what goes on in every team but that doesn't mean we should bury our heads in the sand.

[niMic]

if anything, all members of the team this happened on are just as guilty as CoF. they all knew it was happening and said nothing. not until one of them was removed from the clan did it come to light.

Precisely. I'll be absolutely shocked if this doesn't end up with some form of punishment for everyone involved, not just CoF. Maybe even Chuuuuck, though obviously he deserves some (a lot of) leniency for exposing this whole joke.

My respect for him went up, and it was already fairly high. CoF...? Yeah, you know.

[jgordon1111]

congrats, i'm sure you're right chuck... although admittedly i (like most others i'm sure) stopped reading fairly quickly upon noticing how unimportant the actual crime is...

As an occasional MoW, I can assure you that assigning players to home and away games can get really painful sometimes. Why?
I really dislike delving deeper on that, but suffice to say there is a maximum number of games a certain player can join in a clan war/challenge (roughly 33% of the games), so even if you happen to have the Kasparov of Conquer Club in your clan, you'll still have to struggle into making good teams to cover the other (roughly) 67% of the games. There are a lot of nuances to consider such as:
- some players not getting along with others
- some clanmates not doing particularly well on the maps/settings available but still need to play a minimum ammount of games for medal eligibility
- trying to get clanmates on close timezones as to maximize the window they have to communicate during the 24-hour timespan of the turn
- the best player for a given map not using MSN, which heavily hampers communication
- 5 people volunteering for an away quads game that, by definition, can only be played by 4, which can lead to the need of somehow compensating the one that was not chosen

The list could go on, but the point here is that MoWs are forced to consider several details before assigning an optimal clan/team composition in compliance with the rules.

Having a clan set one of their "star players" up for a dose bigger than those 33% is an illegal way to circumvent the rules and therefore achieve an illegal competitive advantage. Making a mockery of the whole clan world cannot be perceived as an unimportant crime.

I am appalled at several things here,first the MB's MoW bragsie takes a lot of time setting up games and putting the best teams together he can.

Not all of us get along or are great on all maps but if he puts an MB on the map,we may have something to say to him about it,but by God we take our own freaking turns and have our say later.

If this is happening,and by several of the post's I see that some think this is ok, This is flat out BS, I mean shit why start a damn clan if you or just a couple of you are going to play,or if you let the map expert take all the turns.

Thats freaking farming,ranching and the whole kit and kaaboodle.

Dont get me wrong if one of our players gets down to time limit someone will go in and take the turn.

If one of the MB's is going to be out of town or has something else going on they are not even put in a war.

All the participants of this need to be given multiple violations beginning with farming going on to account sitting abuse,stack the damn charges and make the penalty so horrendous that no one will want to do this BS again.

$25.00 a year to be cheated every damn way possible. What a screw over that this is even being debated.

Fastposted by NiMic hell no if he knew about it months ago he should have stepped forward then no leniency because he decided to come clean now.

[rhp 1]

if anything, all members of the team this happened on are just as guilty as CoF. they all knew it was happening and said nothing. not until one of them was removed from the clan did it come to light.

Precisely. I'll be absolutely shocked if this doesn't end up with some form of punishment for everyone involved, not just CoF. Maybe even Chuuuuck, though obviously he deserves some (a lot of) leniency for exposing this whole joke.

My respect for him went up, and it was already fairly high. CoF...? Yeah, you know.

I can only speak for myself, but the clan I was in never did anything like this... I know top clans do it... and it's pretty goddam funny that they do... it's a game folks.. get over yourselves...

[jgordon1111]

if anything, all members of the team this happened on are just as guilty as CoF. they all knew it was happening and said nothing. not until one of them was removed from the clan did it come to light.

Precisely. I'll be absolutely shocked if this doesn't end up with some form of punishment for everyone involved, not just CoF. Maybe even Chuuuuck, though obviously he deserves some (a lot of) leniency for exposing this whole joke.

My respect for him went up, and it was already fairly high. CoF...? Yeah, you know.

I can only speak for myself, but the clan I was in never did anything like this... I know top clans do it... and it's pretty goddam funny that they do... it's a game folks.. get over yourselves...

But you expect to get to play a fair game RHP,you payed to play a fair game. and it should be that the team you are playing be taking their turns. It is a game it shouldn't be rigged by a few cheating people.

[niMic]

if anything, all members of the team this happened on are just as guilty as CoF. they all knew it was happening and said nothing. not until one of them was removed from the clan did it come to light.

Precisely. I'll be absolutely shocked if this doesn't end up with some form of punishment for everyone involved, not just CoF. Maybe even Chuuuuck, though obviously he deserves some (a lot of) leniency for exposing this whole joke.

My respect for him went up, and it was already fairly high. CoF...? Yeah, you know.

I can only speak for myself, but the clan I was in never did anything like this... I know top clans do it... and it's pretty goddam funny that they do... it's a game folks.. get over yourselves...

We don't do it. The josko thing was incredibly overblown. CoF made sure of that, and now I guess we know why.

[codeblue1018]

I can't believe that some of the first reactions here are to "question the motives" of the person filing the report. Don't you get that Chuuuck will be looking at a ban (or whatever his level of punishment is) as well as CoF, sonicsteve, Iron Maid, Pedronicus, and some of the others? This report is not what is disgusting, the actions that led to the report are disgusting! This proves what a mockery the whole clan scene has become. And CoF, what a hypocrite! This is truly a new low on CC. And I'm quickly getting fed up with this site. How long have we all been screaming for an account sitting feature, to eliminate this vAery type of abuse? And are we ANY closer? Such utter bull shit.

Ban those responsible. Ban 'em. Too disgusted to say anything else.

Are people really this surprised? The surprising part of it for me was that they had not yet learned to use proxies to avoid flag changes. The clan scene has been a joke for a long time, at least among the top clans. Also I am not sure an account sitting feature would even help.

"at least among the top clans". ????

Not in my clan mate and in my experience, none of the clans that I have played against.

Are TSM a top clan these days? Also, how do you know it is not happening in the teams you play against? I could name you at least 5 people who have never been convicted but who obviously indulge in this (though I wont), and I am sure plenty I have not noticed have done it too. Maybe it is not always as blatant as this (in that they recognised what they were doing) but I would be surprised if TSM have not benefited from account sitting (even legitimately) at some point.

I am not accusing everyone, as I don't know what goes on in every team but that doesn't mean we should bury our heads in the sand.

Always will be mate. What is FOED? Is that a clan on this site?

Do I know for certain, of course not. You can get a feel for how others play as you've most likely played with them in the past.

You openly stated you know of at least five people who partake in this type of behavior, most likely from other clans and won't give up the names yet you say we shouldn't bury our heads in the sand regarding the problem at hand? Which is it mate? Acknowledge / fix the problem or ignore it?

[pmchugh]

FOED are a clan which likes to have fun, I am happy where I am

I am not going to say its X, Y and Z with no real evidence. It would cause a shit storm and would be unfair on those mentioned.

[agentcom]

if anything, all members of the team this happened on are just as guilty as CoF. they all knew it was happening and said nothing. not until one of them was removed from the clan did it come to light.

Precisely. I'll be absolutely shocked if this doesn't end up with some form of punishment for everyone involved, not just CoF. Maybe even Chuuuuck, though obviously he deserves some (a lot of) leniency for exposing this whole joke.

My respect for him went up, and it was already fairly high. CoF...? Yeah, you know.

I'm not sure he should get leniency. If someone I know says, "I sent out a bunch of invites to some games I set up with a ton of NRs. Here's the links, let's go get some points." Can I go play all the games, get all the points, then turn the other player in for farming and expect leniency? I hope not. Chuuuuck may not have liked it, but he benefited just like all the rest of the players.

How long should it take for a player teaming with CoF to send a message to clan leadership or post in their forum that this is going on and it's not cool and it's cheating. Then how long should it take for that practice to stop before anyone involved starts getting C&A, clan mods or somebody higher up involved? I would think days or maybe a week. At a minimum any of these players could have simply changed their passwords so that their accounts weren't used for this nonsense. That takes seconds. This went on for months. The grace period is far over. I don't know what Chuuuck's reasons were and, frankly, it's irrelevant. The question is did he and others who were in these games do something wrong. The answer is yes.

Leniency for people that changed their passwords or otherwise stopped CoF from doing this with their accounts? Yes. Leniency for the rest of the clan that wasn't in these games? Sure. But for the people who allowed their accounts (even by inaction) to be used for this purpose? No way. Plus how much leniency can be allowed. This is either a warning or not. It's not like they can give anyone 75% of a warning.

Also, of course we're hearing all the cynicism that comes with every major C&A case, but I have a hard time believing that if all these people were punished, and anyone engaging in this thereby told that this will not be ignored, that this type of activity would decrease. Most people would never even consider in engaging in this type of activity. Most clan leaders wouldn't allow it let alone condone or support it. Most people would be happy to know that this isn't going on or at least isn't widespread. At least in my experience with people on this site. Yeah, there may be a few exceptions. And those brazen enough to be doing this may be at the top of the scoreboard. But I think any clan will think twice if they know that anyone engaging in this activity (most importantly whoever their top player is) will be punished for this.

[codeblue1018]

FOED are a clan which likes to have fun, I am happy where I am

I am not going to say its X, Y and Z with no real evidence. It would cause a shit storm and would be unfair on those mentioned.

Understood mate. Kidding on the clan comment; just poking fun back at ya is all.

[pmchugh]

FOED are a clan which likes to have fun, I am happy where I am

I am not going to say its X, Y and Z with no real evidence. It would cause a shit storm and would be unfair on those mentioned.

Understood mate. Kidding on the clan comment; just poking fun back at ya is all.

I know mate lol.

[Chuuuuck]

Several of you have seemed to of gotten off topic. My motive for righting this report has no importance on this case. The bottom line is, the facts were presented and those should be considered on whether or not the accused is guilty of breaking the rules of the site.

But, since so many of you seem to care so much about my motive. I will try to address it this one time.

As you can see from the games I have shown, nearly all of them have come from the past two months. I will say that Chariot of Fire was not near as bad about doing this before that time period. But during that time period, it got much worse.

It will be no secret to anyone who knows me or who has been around TOFU over the past several months, that I do not get along with Chariot of Fire at all. We have extremely conflicting personalities and would regularly argue. That is one reason I would not consider him my "brothers-in-arms" as some of you mentioned. However, I do very much like and care for every other player in that clan. And I apologize to the rest of them for bringing this upon their clan. I also would like to point out that last week, as I already mentioned, Chariot of Fire decided to kick me out of his clan. TOFU is 100% a dictatorship. Whatever Chariot of Fire says, goes. Unfortunately I liked nearly everyone in the clan except for the one person in that clan that made the decisions. I fail to understand why I should have some loyalty to my "brothers-in-arms" when obviously that same loyalty was not extended to me when I was kicked out.

Now, to answer why I hadn't done this earlier. As I alluded to in the original post, I have been away and not on this site a lot of recently. In the past two months, I have traveled on on three different weekends to coach my AAU basketball team. I have spent 3 more weekends at our lake house (with limited internet), I have coached two more tournaments in town, and I have been extremely busy at work during the week. On top of that, I had a bunch of personal/family issues arise last month and had a legitimate sitter for my account from approximately 6/17 up until the end of last week. That is why Chariot of Fire many times was on my account legitimately, except for the times that you noticed I posted that I was back and yet he still kept logging in and taking my times because he "preferred to."

In addition to this, I can tell you whenever I was logging in and taking the turns, I would have constant conversations with Chariot of Fire telling him that I hated playing games with him on my team and would ask him to no longer put me in games in which he was in also. Unfortunately again, he was the one that made ALL final decisions for our clan, he kept putting me in games with him. I argued with him over this topic constantly.

As to why I I hadn't filed this earlier, as already stated, I simply haven't been on this site enough. I can't say 100% that I would of filed it immediately had I been, but I knew it was wrong and would of made effort to at least correct it. But once he decided to kick me out of the clan, then that made the method for how I was going to fix it much more obvious.

Finally, several of you have mentioned punishment. I had thought about that before I posted. I do realize I am guilty on this as well as anyone else is and am okay with whatever happens. I would say in my defense, that 1) I had a lot of legitimate sitting going on for me at the time, 2) when I was back, I posted I was back to my teammates and would try to take all of my own turns. You can see in several of the game chats from the OP, I was the only other one in several of those games actually posting strategy and trying to discuss and take my own turns. I would imagine there were only a handful of turns taken for me that I could of taken myself and that was simply because it was easier to let him take it than to argue with him. Yes, that sounds cowardly, but I can say there are some days where you just don't have the effort to put up with the argument with him. I would argue with him a lot, but some days I couldn't do it.

Anyway, as precedent has been set with this in Chariot of Fire's last case. I would guess all of us other than Chariot of Fire would get a *Noted* for allowing to have our accounts be used. But I would certainly understand if worse happened. I would be okay with whatever happened to me, my conscious is clear.

[greenoaks]

if CoF is banned, who will lead the vendetta against GLGH?

[cachejob]

Several of you have seemed to of gotten off topic. My motive for righting this report has no importance on this case. The bottom line is, the facts were presented and those should be considered on whether or not the accused is guilty of breaking the rules of the site.

But, since so many of you seem to care so much about my motive. I will try to address it this one time.

As you can see from the games I have shown, nearly all of them have come from the past two months. I will say that Chariot of Fire was not near as bad about doing this before that time period. But during that time period, it got much worse.

It will be no secret to anyone who knows me or who has been around TOFU over the past several months, that I do not get along with Chariot of Fire at all. We have extremely conflicting personalities and would regularly argue. That is one reason I would not consider him my "brothers-in-arms" as some of you mentioned. However, I do very much like and care for every other player in that clan. And I apologize to the rest of them for bringing this upon their clan. I also would like to point out that last week, as I already mentioned, Chariot of Fire decided to kick me out of his clan. TOFU is 100% a dictatorship. Whatever Chariot of Fire says, goes. Unfortunately I liked nearly everyone in the clan except for the one person in that clan that made the decisions. I fail to understand why I should have some loyalty to my "brothers-in-arms" when obviously that same loyalty was not extended to me when I was kicked out.

Now, to answer why I hadn't done this earlier. As I alluded to in the original post, I have been away and not on this site a lot of recently. In the past two months, I have traveled on on three different weekends to coach my AAU basketball team. I have spent 3 more weekends at our lake house (with limited internet), I have coached two more tournaments in town, and I have been extremely busy at work during the week. On top of that, I had a bunch of personal/family issues arise last month and had a legitimate sitter for my account from approximately 6/17 up until the end of last week. That is why Chariot of Fire many times was on my account legitimately, except for the times that you noticed I posted that I was back and yet he still kept logging in and taking my times because he "preferred to."

In addition to this, I can tell you whenever I was logging in and taking the turns, I would have constant conversations with Chariot of Fire telling him that I hated playing games with him on my team and would ask him to no longer put me in games in which he was in also. Unfortunately again, he was the one that made ALL final decisions for our clan, he kept putting me in games with him. I argued with him over this topic constantly.

As to why I I hadn't filed this earlier, as already stated, I simply haven't been on this site enough. I can't say 100% that I would of filed it immediately had I been, but I knew it was wrong and would of made effort to at least correct it. But once he decided to kick me out of the clan, then that made the method for how I was going to fix it much more obvious.

Finally, several of you have mentioned punishment. I had thought about that before I posted. I do realize I am guilty on this as well as anyone else is and am okay with whatever happens. I would say in my defense, that 1) I had a lot of legitimate sitting going on for me at the time, 2) when I was back, I posted I was back to my teammates and would try to take all of my own turns. You can see in several of the game chats from the OP, I was the only other one in several of those games actually posting strategy and trying to discuss and take my own turns. I would imagine there were only a handful of turns taken for me that I could of taken myself and that was simply because it was easier to let him take it than to argue with him. Yes, that sounds cowardly, but I can say there are some days where you just don't have the effort to put up with the argument with him. I would argue with him a lot, but some days I couldn't do it.

Anyway, as precedent has been set with this in Chariot of Fire's last case. I would guess all of us other than Chariot of Fire would get a *Noted* for allowing to have our accounts be used. But I would certainly understand if worse happened. I would be okay with whatever happened to me, my conscious is clear.

Chuck you start by saying your motive has no importance, then go on at length to explain your motive. since you seem keen on misinformation let me clear up your motive from my perspective.

you have been an unreliable team mate at best since you joined TOFU. any weekend there was a good chance you would miss a turn if someone didn't happen to notice that the clock was low, resulting in many unplanned misses for the team. 98% turns taken over 5452 games is a lot of let down people.

your contribution to team chat is spotty at best. when you did bother to take your turns you would often ignore previously agreed upon team chat and charge away your in own direction with no discussion.

you walked away from TOFU halfway through a war that wasn't going well. some time later, after pleading, you were let back in later for a second chance. our fault.

now mid-way through multiple wars you again decide you can't play any clan games to help out, but still find time to farm hive trench speed games to try to get your coveted farmed star. well done.

fed up with your bs you are again given the boot from the clan. CoF was kind enough to let you, along with others that were let go at the same time remain in the clan for a few days to say goodbye since we thought it an amicable parting.

don't pretend like you have been planning this for ages and this was the last straw. you were booted a second time, knew you wouldn't be let back a third time and whatever results occur one way or another here relate to you as much as anyone.

i'll stop there and let the mods/hunters do their job.

TOFU is 100% a dictatorship.

bs

[Crazyirishman]

if CoF is banned, who will lead the vendetta against GLGH?

Dawg, there's always somebody to lead a vendetta against somebody who doesn't play the Internet games the way we subjectively think it should be played. If CoF is banned, I'm sure somebody will step up to the plate to get some good ole' conq bashing in.

[SaviorShot]

CoF is always pushing to get cheaters banned. Now when he breaks the rules (2nd time) he is no where to be found. Hes alrdy been warned for this activity. This goes deep inside the competitive part of CC as well. TOFU should be kicked out of all active clan games for this. As for punishing CoF that's up to the mods but this could also be looked at as multi accounts in a way. This act deserves at least a 3 month ban I mean come on. I can see the first time being just a warning but this guy is taking advantage of his clan an the CC community. CC needs assurance that this kinda activity can not be allowed ( breaking the rules a 2nd time ).