Re: 1588 Spanish Armada [16.01.14] V45 Fixes

[Nola_Lifer]

Damn, this is awesome! Only real problem for me is the squares for the Spanish Treasury. The white lines kind of trip me out.

[nolefan5311]

I will analyze this tonight cairns and post any suggestions I have.

[cairnswk]

Damn, this is awesome! Only real problem for me is the squares for the Spanish Treasury. The white lines kind of trip me out.

I'll change those for you. probably to yellow tint same as on the map.

I will analyze this tonight cairns and post any suggestions I have.

Mmm. i look forward to that.

[nolefan5311]

I will analyze this tonight cairns and post any suggestions I have.

Mmm. i look forward to that. [/quote]

[nolefan5311]

Honestly, I think it's almost there cairns. The only issues I have is that the proximity between some ships is a little too close. You might think about making the one regions that border two ships (Disdain, Firestone E, La Girona, Army Calais) neutral 2's to even out the neutrals between ships.

Also, you might want to think about increasing the amount of troops a player starts out with on their monarch. With it being a losing condition, it might be too vulnerable to an attacker with good dice too early in the game. Since this map is meant to replicate real life, I think the Monarch should be the most difficult position to take and not easily conquered on the first turn.

Since a player gets a +1 for holding 9 ships, do they also get the standard +1/3 terts? There's nothing that leads me to think otherwise, I was just curious.

I'm really excited to see what Sully can do with the xml. The attack routes from the Treasury are very interesting.

[cairnswk]

Honestly, I think it's almost there cairns. The only issues I have is that the proximity between some ships is a little too close. You might think about making the one regions that border two ships (Disdain, Firestone E, La Girona, Army Calais) neutral 2's to even out the neutrals between ships.

nolefan5311....do you understand that vessels that border only the white parts Bow and Stern of the command ships can assault the command vessels?
Therefore Disdain cannot attack either Truimph or Capitania...it can however bombard both of those vessels.
Girona can assault Capitania and bombard George but it cannot bombard Triumph
Geroge can assault Triumph and bombard Gironia but it cannot bombard Capitania.
Both George and Girona have to assault Disdain to get to each other.

[nolefan5311]

I thought that was the case but I wasn't 100% sure. Maybe adding something like, "the colored portions of CV's are impassable" would really clear it up.

And you see what I'm saying about the Monarchy? If I take my opponents Monarchy in the first turn and he fails to take it back, game could be over in a turn or two since I can attack all his non-Treasury territories from his Treasury.

[cairnswk]

I thought that was the case but I wasn't 100% sure. Maybe adding something like, "the colored portions of CV's are impassable" would really clear it up.

OK, also i was thinking about adding a clearly impassable line top and bottom of the command vessels.

And you see what I'm saying about the Monarchy? If I take my opponents Monarchy in the first turn and he fails to take it back, game could be over in a turn or two since I can attack all his non-Treasury territories from his Treasury.

sorry i ddn't answer that previously...
sorry yes and no...
1. on first turn you'd hold monarch (3), command vessel(3) and supply vessel/base(3).
2. treasury can only attack upwards to another bonus in same players column, or If their command vessel or land/vessel supply is conquered by another player then the treasury can assault out to those conquered positions.
3. opposing players can assault command vessel/supply but i doubt that would occur during the first opening skirmishes.
4. it might be good to have Monarch start at (6) so that they are not taken in the opening sequence
5. you can only be eliminated if you don't hold the monarch and other non-treasury positions e.g. command or any other vessel/base.
Does that make sense.

[nolefan5311]

Yeah, I'm with you. The situation I was thinking of was if I take my opponents Monarch first turn and he can't take it back, then I can just take the first Treasury square and use that to attack all of his command vessel/land supplies, potentially ending the game in the first couple of rounds. Perhaps we're on the same page with what we're thinking, I just wanted to clarify where I was coming from. I think increasing the start positions for the treasury, and possibly increasing the starting neutrals on the first tier of Treasury would be an option as well?

[cairnswk]

Yeah, I'm with you. The situation I was thinking of was if I take my opponents Monarch first turn and he can't take it back, then I can just take the first Treasury square and use that to attack all of his command vessel/land supplies, potentially ending the game in the first couple of rounds. Perhaps we're on the same page with what we're thinking, I just wanted to clarify where I was coming from. I think increasing the start positions for the treasury, and possibly increasing the starting neutrals on the first tier of Treasury would be an option as well?

OK. 6 on each given that each starter will only get the standard three anyways

[cairnswk]

Version 14.
1. impassables enhanced on map and legend and moved from top to bottom
2. starts on Monarch and first treasury space beefed up to 6 each
3. titles on command vessels enhanced

Click image to enlarge.

and with the starts and neutrals

Click image to enlarge.

[DoomYoshi]

Finally had a chance to look it over. Looks good to me, will play it in Beta right away.

[cairnswk]

Finally had a chance to look it over. Looks good to me, will play it in Beta right away.

Is it easily understood DoomYoshi?

[Nola_Lifer]

Finally had a chance to look it over. Looks good to me, will play it in Beta right away.

Is it easily understood DoomYoshi?

Instead of text can you represent instructions through pictures?
Mainly the Treasury movement.

[cairnswk]

Finally had a chance to look it over. Looks good to me, will play it in Beta right away.

Is it easily understood DoomYoshi?

Instead of text can you represent instructions through pictures?
Mainly the Treasury movement.

one-half of the treasury movement already has an upwards arrow...
the other bit i think would be doable if there was heaps more space....i'll look at it though.

[cairnswk]

Finally had a chance to look it over. Looks good to me, will play it in Beta right away.

Is it easily understood DoomYoshi?

Instead of text can you represent instructions through pictures?
Mainly the Treasury movement.

one-half of the treasury movement already has an upwards arrow...
the other bit i think would be doable if there was heaps more space....i'll look at it though.

i've just tried it and graphically there are going to be too many arrows going back and forth

[Nola_Lifer]

Finally had a chance to look it over. Looks good to me, will play it in Beta right away.

Is it easily understood DoomYoshi?

Instead of text can you represent instructions through pictures?
Mainly the Treasury movement.

one-half of the treasury movement already has an upwards arrow...
the other bit i think would be doable if there was heaps more space....i'll look at it though.

i've just tried it and graphically there are going to be too many arrows going back and forth

Just throwing it out there. Thanks for trying it out though

[cairnswk]

...
Just throwing it out there. Thanks for trying it out though

i had thought of it earlier 'coz i recognise it is very wordy...
it is difficult because there needs to be arrows going to and from from every treasury square to each command vessel unit as well as SS or LB...yeh, just too much

[DoomYoshi]

I can understand it. It seems wordy but I don't have better suggestions.

[nolefan5311]

This map will receive the gameplay stamp in the next 24-48 hours, so if anyone has any concerns/comments/suggestions, now is the time to make them known.

[cairnswk]

This map will receive the gameplay stamp in the next 24-48 hours, so if anyone has any concerns/comments/suggestions, now is the time to make them known.

Yes i have comments....are the bonuses all good? Not enough discussion has taken place about these yet.
For instance...
1. the Monarch & their Treasury.... a player will get auto-deployed 1+1+3+4+5 for each of those square held.
Do they need to get another +11 for holding all that as stipulated in the top section.

2. for the single ships...does it need to be 9 on either side of spanish or English or can it be a combination of both sides for the +1 bonus and is +1 enough for 9....coinsidering you get +1 for holding a supply ship or land base.

3. army de parma and fireships...i am sure these bonuses are not correct.

4. if supply ship is worth +1, then surely command ship must be worth +2

Stamping for gameplay is happening far too early IMHO, and not enough analysis has occurred,

[thenobodies80]

Don't worry, no stamp will be given till we're all sure that the map is really ready to go.
Moreover a little bird told me that iancanton, our gameplay guru, is going to double check the map.

Finally, althought my current rank is really shitty and certainly I'm not a gameplay expert, I'll take a look at your map tomorrow and I'll try to give you an answer to your questions/concerns here above.

Nobodies

[cairnswk]

...
Finally, althought my current rank is really shitty and certainly I'm not a gameplay expert, I'll take a look at your map tomorrow and I'll try to give you an answer to your questions/concerns here above.
Nobodies

no hurry tnb80...i also want to do some analysis there to offer something from my perspective, although like you, i am also no gameplay expert.

[nolefan5311]

I hope my eagerness to get it stamped didn't lead you to believe I wasn't being thorough, cairns. If you want, I will unsticky the thread and leave it in the GP stage for a couple more weeks, give more people a chance to look it over.

[cairnswk]

I hope my eagerness to get it stamped didn't lead you to believe I wasn't being thorough, cairns. If you want, I will unsticky the thread and leave it in the GP stage for a couple more weeks, give more people a chance to look it over.

eagerness i suspected. thoroughness was not suspected. yes please unsticky it due to large number of issues to be discussed.