Zimmerman vs. DMX - Boxing Match?

[natty dread]

I just want to say that I am a permit holder in my state and I carry a SW9VE and I would have shot the fuck out of that ****** too. So take that as you may.

Out of curiosity... what was the word you censored there?

[AAFitz]

I just want to say that I am a permit holder in my state and I carry a SW9VE and I would have shot the fuck out of that ****** too. So take that as you may.

Before or after pissing your pants?

[keiths31]

I just want to say that I am a permit holder in my state and I carry a SW9VE and I would have shot the fuck out of that ****** too. So take that as you may.

A post like that makes me very glad I live in Canada where people aren't allowed to carry handguns.

[thegreekdog]

Another article that shows clearly where phatscotty's rhetoric is coming from:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/0 ... 1995-2012/

Over the last 48 hours, there has been a sustained effort to smear Trayvon Martin, the 17-year old African-American who was shot dead by George Zimmerman a month ago. Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, said, “They killed my son, now they’re trying to kill his reputation.”

Thus far these attacks have fallen into two categories: false and irrelevant. Much of this leaked information seems intended to play into stereotypes about young African-American males. Here’s what everyone should know:

1. Prominent conservative websites published fake photos of Martin. Twitchy, a new website run by prominent conservative blogger Michelle Malkin, promoted a photo — purportedly from Martin’s Facebook page — that shows Martin in saggy pants and flipping the bird. The photo, which spread quickly on conservative websites and Twitter, is intended to paint Martin as a thug. As Twitchy later acknowledged, it is not a photo of Trayvon Martin. [Examiner]

2. The Sanford Police selectively leaked irrelevant, negative information about Martin. The authorities told the Orlando Sentinel this morning that Trayvon was suspended from school for ten days “after being found with an empty marijuana baggie.” There is no evidence that Martin was under the influence of drugs at the time of his death, nor would prior possession of marijuana be a reason for killing him. It’s unclear what the relevance of the leak was, other than to smear Martin. [Orlando Sentinel]

3. On Fox News, Geraldo said that Martin was dressed “like a wannabe gangster.” Bill O’Reilly agreed with him. The sole evidence is that Martin was wearing a hoodie. Geraldo added that “everyone that ever stuck up a convenience store” was wearing a hoodie. [ThinkProgress; The Blaze]

4. Without any evidence, prominent right-wing bloggers suggested that Martin was a drug dealer. Right-wing blogger Dan Riehl advances the theory, also advanced in a widely linked peice on a site called Wagist. There does not appear to be any evidence to support this claim whatsoever. [Riehl World View]

5. Without any evidence, a right-wing columnist alleged that Martin assaulted a bus driver. Unlike Zimmerman, Trayvon has no documented history of violence. This allegation continues to be advanced by a blogger on the Examiner even after the real reason was leaked to the police and confirmed by the family. [Miami Herald; Examiner]

6. Zimmerman’s friend says Martin was to blame because he was disrespectful to Zimmerman. Zimmerman’s friend Joe Oliver said that Martin would not have been shot to death if Trayvon had just said “I’m staying with my parents.” Of course, Zimmerman was not a police officer, and Trayvon had no duty to tell him who he was or where he was going. [NBC News]

The final part of the effort to smear Trayvon Martin is to link him and his supporters to irresponsible fringe groups like the New Black Panthers and marginal provocateurs like Louis Farrakhan. Threats by these groups are serious and should be investigated, but they have nothing to do with Martin or his supporters. The leader of the effort to associate Martin with these groups is Matt Drudge. You can see how he is framing the story today here.

Ultimately, whether Martin was a perfect person is irrelevant to whether Zimmerman’s conduct that night was justified. Clearly, there are two different versions of the events that transpired on February 26, the night Trayvon was killed. There are conflicting statements by witnesses and conflicting evidence as to who was the aggressor. Zimmerman has the right to tell his side of the story. But his opportunity to do this will come in a court of law after he is charged and arrested. In the meantime, Zimmerman’s supporters should stop trying to smear the reputation of a dead, 17-year-old boy.

I trust you're going to pull something similar to show where you rhetoric is coming from. I look forward to reading that.

[natty dread]

I trust you're going to pull something similar to show where you rhetoric is coming from.

There's no rhetoric coming from me. I'm simply using COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

[thegreekdog]

I trust you're going to pull something similar to show where you rhetoric is coming from.

There's no rhetoric coming from me. I'm simply using COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

Oh... Well then. I guess I should read all your posts in this thread again. Looked like rhetoric to me.

[patches70]

There's no rhetoric coming from me. I'm simply using COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

Yeah, if common sense equals rushing to premature judgments without all the facts, then yes.
If common sense equals defending your judgment in the face of contradictory facts by calling everyone racist, then yes.
If common sense equals looking at a situation in another country and applying the laws of your own country to that situation, then yes.
If common sense equals a complete lack of understanding of US law, then yes.

Otherwise, you are just another mob mentality fool that happily jumps on a bandwagon that fits your own ideological slant of the world. Facts be damned is your common sense.

[natty dread]

You guys just don't understand because you're all racists and you don't have any common sense. You should all learn to be more like me, because I'm perfect and awesome.

[saxitoxin]

I trust you're going to pull something similar to show where you rhetoric is coming from.

There's no rhetoric coming from me. I'm simply using COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

NATTY DREAD REPORTED FOR BEING A MULTI Of WOODRUFF

[BigBallinStalin]

I trust you're going to pull something similar to show where you rhetoric is coming from.

There's no rhetoric coming from me. I'm simply using COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

Yes. "Racism racism racism racism racism" as the answer certainly is a great way of analyzing this problem. Once again, BVP and saxitoxin have hit the nail on the head in this thread. All you've done is bog it down with quasi-crap. There is some validity to the notion that racism is involved, but it doesn't explain much of the decision-making of Zimmerman and Martin. It doesn't really help because it makes these discussions unproductive.

[BigBallinStalin]

You guys just don't understand because you're all racists and you don't have any common sense. You should all learn to be more like me, because I'm perfect and awesome.

yeah, trolling's so cool, dude!

[thegreekdog]

There's no rhetoric coming from me. I'm simply using COMMON FUCKING SENSE.

Yeah, if common sense equals rushing to premature judgments without all the facts, then yes.
If common sense equals defending your judgment in the face of contradictory facts by calling everyone racist, then yes.
If common sense equals looking at a situation in another country and applying the laws of your own country to that situation, then yes.
If common sense equals a complete lack of understanding of US law, then yes.

Otherwise, you are just another mob mentality fool that happily jumps on a bandwagon that fits your own ideological slant of the world. Facts be damned is your common sense.

So you're saying he's like the left version of Phatscotty in this thread?

[natty dread]

I'm not left-handed

[Dukasaur]

Haha, we do have right to self-defense, but there's such a thing as "excessive use of self-defense" in our legislation... meaning that just because someone attacks you it doesn't justify killing that person, unless there's no other alternative to save your own life.

I'm waiting to hear the convoluted explanations why Zimmerman's life was in such danger that he simply had to kill an unarmed kid to protect his own life...

The problem is that when someone is beating on you, you have no way of knowing how far he will go. Maybe he's a gentleman who will stop as soon as you show no further signs of resistance. On the other hand, maybe he's a homocidal maniac you will continue smashing your head until you are dead. Or he could be anything in between those two extremes. Unless you know a lot more about him than what one usually knows about a stranger, you really have no idea how far things will go.

It's really easy for people who aren't there to make pronouncements about what you should or shouldn't have done. It's a lot harder when you're the one getting his head banged on the pavement and all you see are stars flashing in front of your eyes.

[keiths31]

You guys just don't understand because you're all racists and you don't have any common sense. You should all learn to be more like me, because I'm perfect and awesome.

That's your answer to every post or person who doesn't share the same viewpoint as you. There is no grey area or middle ground. They are either a racist or a bigot.

[thegreekdog]

I'm not left-handed

Indigo Montoya: You are wonderful.
Man in Black: Thank you. I've worked hard to become so.
Indigo Montoya: I admit it, you are better than I am.
Man in Black: Then why are you smiling?
Indigo Montoya: Beacuse I know something you don't know.
Man in Black: And what is that?
Indigo Montoya: I am not left-handed

Indigo switches his sword to his right hand

Man in Black: You are amazing.
Indigo Montoya: I should be, after 20 years.
Man in Black: Oh, there's something I should tell you.
Indigo Montoya: Tell me.
Man in Black: I'm not left handed either.

[kentington]

I'm not left-handed

Indigo Montoya: You are wonderful.
Man in Black: Thank you. I've worked hard to become so.
Indigo Montoya: I admit it, you are better than I am.
Man in Black: Then why are you smiling?
Indigo Montoya: Beacuse I know something you don't know.
Man in Black: And what is that?
Indigo Montoya: I am not left-handed

Indigo switches his sword to his right hand

Man in Black: You are amazing.
Indigo Montoya: I should be, after 20 years.
Man in Black: Oh, there's something I should tell you.
Indigo Montoya: Tell me.
Man in Black: I'm not left handed either.

Ummmm...side line. His name is Indigo? It always sounded like Anigo to me. Now I have to look it up.

We were both half right I looked it up. It's Inigo according to IMDb.

[natty dread]

That's your answer to every post or person who doesn't share the same viewpoint as you.

No it's not, stop lying

[saxitoxin]

a touching tribute ...

[Phatscotty]

I wonder if anyone will deny that in the least, the media has effectively Inceptioned Trayvon as a 12 year old child.

[Phatscotty]

Another article that shows clearly where phatscotty's rhetoric is coming from:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/0 ... 1995-2012/

Over the last 48 hours, there has been a sustained effort to smear Trayvon Martin, the 17-year old African-American who was shot dead by George Zimmerman a month ago. Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, said, “They killed my son, now they’re trying to kill his reputation.”

Thus far these attacks have fallen into two categories: false and irrelevant. Much of this leaked information seems intended to play into stereotypes about young African-American males. Here’s what everyone should know:

1. Prominent conservative websites published fake photos of Martin. Twitchy, a new website run by prominent conservative blogger Michelle Malkin, promoted a photo — purportedly from Martin’s Facebook page — that shows Martin in saggy pants and flipping the bird. The photo, which spread quickly on conservative websites and Twitter, is intended to paint Martin as a thug. As Twitchy later acknowledged, it is not a photo of Trayvon Martin. [Examiner]

2. The Sanford Police selectively leaked irrelevant, negative information about Martin. The authorities told the Orlando Sentinel this morning that Trayvon was suspended from school for ten days “after being found with an empty marijuana baggie.” There is no evidence that Martin was under the influence of drugs at the time of his death, nor would prior possession of marijuana be a reason for killing him. It’s unclear what the relevance of the leak was, other than to smear Martin. [Orlando Sentinel]

3. On Fox News, Geraldo said that Martin was dressed “like a wannabe gangster.” Bill O’Reilly agreed with him. The sole evidence is that Martin was wearing a hoodie. Geraldo added that “everyone that ever stuck up a convenience store” was wearing a hoodie. [ThinkProgress; The Blaze]

4. Without any evidence, prominent right-wing bloggers suggested that Martin was a drug dealer. Right-wing blogger Dan Riehl advances the theory, also advanced in a widely linked peice on a site called Wagist. There does not appear to be any evidence to support this claim whatsoever. [Riehl World View]

5. Without any evidence, a right-wing columnist alleged that Martin assaulted a bus driver. Unlike Zimmerman, Trayvon has no documented history of violence. This allegation continues to be advanced by a blogger on the Examiner even after the real reason was leaked to the police and confirmed by the family. [Miami Herald; Examiner]

6. Zimmerman’s friend says Martin was to blame because he was disrespectful to Zimmerman. Zimmerman’s friend Joe Oliver said that Martin would not have been shot to death if Trayvon had just said “I’m staying with my parents.” Of course, Zimmerman was not a police officer, and Trayvon had no duty to tell him who he was or where he was going. [NBC News]

The final part of the effort to smear Trayvon Martin is to link him and his supporters to irresponsible fringe groups like the New Black Panthers and marginal provocateurs like Louis Farrakhan. Threats by these groups are serious and should be investigated, but they have nothing to do with Martin or his supporters. The leader of the effort to associate Martin with these groups is Matt Drudge. You can see how he is framing the story today here.

Ultimately, whether Martin was a perfect person is irrelevant to whether Zimmerman’s conduct that night was justified. Clearly, there are two different versions of the events that transpired on February 26, the night Trayvon was killed. There are conflicting statements by witnesses and conflicting evidence as to who was the aggressor. Zimmerman has the right to tell his side of the story. But his opportunity to do this will come in a court of law after he is charged and arrested. In the meantime, Zimmerman’s supporters should stop trying to smear the reputation of a dead, 17-year-old boy.

Or, this is just more shit made up when negative parts of the truth come out and you don't like it. The truth is not always positive and full of positive things, and it's usually quite negative to at least someone involved.

I liked number 6 though. I think it is true that Trayvon would very likely still be alive to day if he said "I'm a guest at my Dads, Mr Martin."

For all the crazy responses this simple post will likely get, I didn't say or imply that Trayvon was under any authority or obligation to answer the question of why he was in that community, and totally has the right to remain silent if he wants to, and get even respond "You feeling froggish fool? JUMP!".

So I will pre-emptively say it another way. If he were polite, not racially profiling, or just courteous, or just even the eeniest teeniest bit co-operative in the simplest of forms, I really do think he would probably be still be alive.

[saxitoxin]

Another article that shows clearly where phatscotty's rhetoric is coming from:

http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2012/0 ... 1995-2012/

Over the last 48 hours, there has been a sustained effort to smear Trayvon Martin, the 17-year old African-American who was shot dead by George Zimmerman a month ago. Martin’s mother, Sybrina Fulton, said, “They killed my son, now they’re trying to kill his reputation.”

Thus far these attacks have fallen into two categories: false and irrelevant. Much of this leaked information seems intended to play into stereotypes about young African-American males. Here’s what everyone should know:

1. Prominent conservative websites published fake photos of Martin. Twitchy, a new website run by prominent conservative blogger Michelle Malkin, promoted a photo — purportedly from Martin’s Facebook page — that shows Martin in saggy pants and flipping the bird. The photo, which spread quickly on conservative websites and Twitter, is intended to paint Martin as a thug. As Twitchy later acknowledged, it is not a photo of Trayvon Martin. [Examiner]

2. The Sanford Police selectively leaked irrelevant, negative information about Martin. The authorities told the Orlando Sentinel this morning that Trayvon was suspended from school for ten days “after being found with an empty marijuana baggie.” There is no evidence that Martin was under the influence of drugs at the time of his death, nor would prior possession of marijuana be a reason for killing him. It’s unclear what the relevance of the leak was, other than to smear Martin. [Orlando Sentinel]

3. On Fox News, Geraldo said that Martin was dressed “like a wannabe gangster.” Bill O’Reilly agreed with him. The sole evidence is that Martin was wearing a hoodie. Geraldo added that “everyone that ever stuck up a convenience store” was wearing a hoodie. [ThinkProgress; The Blaze]

4. Without any evidence, prominent right-wing bloggers suggested that Martin was a drug dealer. Right-wing blogger Dan Riehl advances the theory, also advanced in a widely linked peice on a site called Wagist. There does not appear to be any evidence to support this claim whatsoever. [Riehl World View]

5. Without any evidence, a right-wing columnist alleged that Martin assaulted a bus driver. Unlike Zimmerman, Trayvon has no documented history of violence. This allegation continues to be advanced by a blogger on the Examiner even after the real reason was leaked to the police and confirmed by the family. [Miami Herald; Examiner]

6. Zimmerman’s friend says Martin was to blame because he was disrespectful to Zimmerman. Zimmerman’s friend Joe Oliver said that Martin would not have been shot to death if Trayvon had just said “I’m staying with my parents.” Of course, Zimmerman was not a police officer, and Trayvon had no duty to tell him who he was or where he was going. [NBC News]

The final part of the effort to smear Trayvon Martin is to link him and his supporters to irresponsible fringe groups like the New Black Panthers and marginal provocateurs like Louis Farrakhan. Threats by these groups are serious and should be investigated, but they have nothing to do with Martin or his supporters. The leader of the effort to associate Martin with these groups is Matt Drudge. You can see how he is framing the story today here.

Ultimately, whether Martin was a perfect person is irrelevant to whether Zimmerman’s conduct that night was justified. Clearly, there are two different versions of the events that transpired on February 26, the night Trayvon was killed. There are conflicting statements by witnesses and conflicting evidence as to who was the aggressor. Zimmerman has the right to tell his side of the story. But his opportunity to do this will come in a court of law after he is charged and arrested. In the meantime, Zimmerman’s supporters should stop trying to smear the reputation of a dead, 17-year-old boy.

Or, this is just more shit made up when negative parts of the truth come out and you don't like it.

In regard to #1 - here's the retraction from twichy.com that the "Facebook photos" they posted - and you posted earlier - were not really of Martin:
http://twitchy.com/2012/03/25/why-teamd ... r-justice/

According to michellemalkin.com, the URL twichy.com is owned by her:
http://michellemalkin.com/2012/03/07/an ... itchy-com/

According to WhoIs, michellemalkin.com is owned by a "Jesse Malkin."
http://www.whois.com/whois/michellemalkin.com

Media reports indicate Michelle Malkin's husband's name is "Jesse Malkin."
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/baltsun/acc ... atl=google
http://nl.newsbank.com/nl-search/we/Arc ... l=GooglePM

There seems to be an unimpeachable string of evidence indicating #1 of Natty's post was correct (the subsequent points, similarly, seem correct). Is it possible there is a vast conspiracy that is hacking the WhoIs database, as well as multiple websites, to discredit Michelle Malkin on on the Trayvon Martin case and this conspiracy has gone unreported via any media outlet? I guess anything's possible.

So I will pre-emptively say it another way. If he were polite, not racially profiling, or just courteous, or just even the eeniest teeniest bit co-operative in the simplest of forms, I really do think he would probably be still be alive.

If an unshaven, rapey looking man with an ear stud began running at you, without identifying himself, while you were in a crime infested neigborhood would your instinct be to (1) run away, (2) attack him, (3) assume a supine position, wait for him to get to you and then politely say "Hello - are you running toward me to inquire who I am? What identity documents can I provide to you?"

[Night Strike]

Some information I learned today:

1. I heard one radio program pronouncing his name as the Hispanic name of "Jorge" instead of the English name of "George". Which one is the correct pronunciation? If it's the first, then the media has REALLY gotten this wrong and are actively trying to paint him as white.

2. Apparently Zimmerman's voter registration card has him listed as Hispanic (not white) AND as a Democrat.

3. Spike Lee mis-tweeted Zimmerman's address which caused an elderly couple to have to leave their home in fear of their lives. Where is the call for civility from the left to stop all of these violent protestors?

[keiths31]

Here is a link to a story re: Spike Lee posting the wrong address

http://www.cnn.com/2012/03/28/justice/f ... spike-lee/

[Symmetry]

Some information I learned today:

1. I heard one radio program pronouncing his name as the Hispanic name of "Jorge" instead of the English name of "George". Which one is the correct pronunciation? If it's the first, then the media has REALLY gotten this wrong and are actively trying to paint him as white.

2. Apparently Zimmerman's voter registration card has him listed as Hispanic (not white) AND as a Democrat.

3. Spike Lee mis-tweeted Zimmerman's address which caused an elderly couple to have to leave their home in fear of their lives. Where is the call for civility from the left to stop all of these violent protestors?

Hmm, seems like a bunch more speculation, but I can at least disillusion you on the first point:

Link

You might also note on the second point, that the media have largely portrayed him as hispanic, at least in terms of mainstream sources.

On the third point, meh, so what. As keiths pointed out, the threat that has pushed them into hiding amounts to a letter they received that mentioned "skittles". If there's more to it than that, I'd be happy to see it, but at best it seems tangential, and certainly not an example of violent protest against the couple.