Get Rich from the Bank [5/12] Town Wins!

[Rodion]

If that is considered cheating, I ask you to get me modkilled in all my games because I've talked about all of them! Why don't you make this site a better place by getting me killed in all my games, since I've just confessed I've cheated in all of them?

If you cannot understand the point I'm trying to argue, then you are dumber than what I had originally thought.

And, for the record, I originally thought you were pretty dumb.

[Rodion]

viewtopic.php?p=3539061#p3539061

You may post that link Rodion, as long as it doesn't have to deal with anything that I sent you in a PM.

[Iron Butterfly]

And you are a scumbag as well.

I withdraw from the game.

[skillfusniper33]

I will be thinking about this for some time and probably discussing it with a few other mods, and the night will probably be extended because of it.

[Rodion]

I don't think there is anything that needs to be discussed.

People discuss games with other people that are not part of it (be it girlfriends, friends, other CC players that are not playing and do not intend to be a replacement, people from other sites). It happens all the time and there is no issue with that. The rules are meant to prevent players to talk to other players if they are not allowed to (usually they are only allowed if they are mafia or masons) and, possibly, privately quoting their win conditions (an effective way to recognize one another as town and win the game for town - see Victor's Mafia Mafia). I've never seen someone get modkilled for talking to someone that was NOT involved in the game.

Iron can backtrack all he wants and say the problem is not "discussing", it's "publishing the discussion", but that is something I only did after you allowed me to. Had you not allowed, nobody would have seen that thread before this game was over.

Not to mention that with 8 players alive and 1 likely getting killed by mafia tonight, if for whatever reason you decide to modkill me, you might as well call it a day and award the win to the mafia.

[Iron Butterfly]

4. The game will not be discussed outside this thread, unless your role specifically says you can.


What part of this is not understood? Does your role say it can? If not end of story.

If the mod gave you permission he broke his own rule.

If the mod gave you permission and didnt let everyone know that is not fair.

This is about the integrity of the game.

[MoB Deadly]

Fastposted twice

I just want to throw my two cents into this.....

That rule about discussing it in another thread was not the intention for that rule. That rule is there so that any debates/arguments/cases are only here in public so everyone can read it. Using other games/threads to make an argument is perfectly legal. We could even discuss this game in another thread or in chat as long as no other players are discussing it as well.

Its just like CC's rules on Game Chat. Everything has to be posted there, can't talk about tactics on any other players wall or via PM. The info has to be easily accessible by all players in the game.

Where it crosses the line is, I cant talk to any other active player in this game, about this game.

shoot gotta go, hope this helped at all

[Rodion]

This is about you being a fucking dumb crybaby and complaining that the mod broke his own rule. Newflash, champ: after the mod said I could post the damn link and before I posted it, you posted in the thread. Why didn't you argue that he shouldn't have allowed me to post before it was too late?

Furthermore, the link's only purpose was to provide evidence of why your lynch was the better D2 option. You somehow mislead town into believing you and getting Zimmah killed. The question that remains is: why are you fucking complaining?

You don't have to answer, though. It's actually a rhetorical question. I know why you are complaining.

[Rodion]

Fastposted twice

I just want to throw my two cents into this.....

That rule about discussing it in another thread was not the intention for that rule. That rule is there so that any debates/arguments/cases are only here in public so everyone can read it. Using other games/threads to make an argument is perfectly legal. We could even discuss this game in another thread or in chat as long as no other players are discussing it as well.

Its just like CC's rules on Game Chat. Everything has to be posted there, can't talk about tactics on any other players wall or via PM. The info has to be easily accessible by all players in the game.

Where it crosses the line is, I cant talk to any other active player in this game, about this game.

shoot gotta go, hope this helped at all

This.

To further illustrate MoB's point: viewtopic.php?f=609&t=162091

[zimmah]

And you are a scumbag as well.

I withdraw from the game.

couldn't you have withdrawn sooner, that would have saved me a lot of trouble.

you sure pick a fight with everyone.

[zimmah]

4. The game will not be discussed outside this thread, unless your role specifically says you can.


What part of this is not understood? Does your role say it can? If not end of story.

If the mod gave you permission he broke his own rule.

If the mod gave you permission and didnt let everyone know that is not fair.

This is about the integrity of the game.

rules and laws each have a very specific reason why they are created, but not all rules/laws are perfect. therefore, rules and laws are never final. one has to use common sense to know when a law or rule should be invoked or not.

for example. in traffic, there's a law that states that you're not allowed to drive past a red traffic sign, but does that mean that when there's a truck behind you that's speeding up towards you, (that either didn't see the light in time orhas any problems or something, and you can clearly see from your mirror that it's not going to stop for some reason) are you still going to stop for the red light and risk the truck hitting you? i'd guess not! the law is there for your (and other persons) safety, so if in any case it's more safe to actually ignore the red light, there's not a single judge that will ever punish you for that.

now, the reason of rule 4 is that it prevents cheating by letting other people that are currently also in the game or may become replacements soon are not informed about the role you have or about any important (private) aspects of the game, as it will ruin the game for others. but just talking about some details that's public for everyone, especially with a target that has nothing to do with the game, is perfectly fine. modkilling someone that does this will only hurt the game more.

[Iron Butterfly]

First my apologies to everyone. This has been the nastiest game I have ever been in. A game should not be this way. I played my part as well. I can not be a hypocrite and and say one thing and do another as I did with Zimmah so my apologies to Zimmah. I also apologies to Rodiaon for my name calling.

A game should not evolve to a point such as this.

The Irony of Rodions created thread on Mafiascum is that it favored me in many of the posts. Folks can read it and judge for themselves. It really doesnt matter as I have removed myself from the game.

What I disagreed with is that I challanged Rodion to site his game theory sources on why a claimed VT should be killed. Either you have the information or you dont. On page 17 he sited the info. No biggy.

On page 19 he created a link with a discussion he created to garner opinions to post. He created a discussion outside the game.
Sniper was unaware that Rodion had created the thread, he just thought they were links to information hence why he was allowed to do so.

Maybe I over interpreted the rule but in my reasoning I find somthing wrong with a person trying to generate information to support his argument. It is an unwritten rule on this website not to discuss ongoing games. It also appears to be the same on Mafiascum. Creating a direct link from the Mafiascum site showing a created discussion on our exhisting game is no different.

Enjoy the rest of the game.

[Leitz]

IB, I don't understand why you are withdrawing from the game. It seems like you really have a personal thing against Rodion! I saw the post that Rodion made in the Mafia Discussions forum and I don't see the fuzz you're making about it. Isn't withdrawing from the game a bit uncalled for?

We've had everything in this game already, can it get even worse?

[zimmah]

IB, I don't understand why you are withdrawing from the game. It seems like you really have a personal thing against Rodion! I saw the post that Rodion made in the Mafia Discussions forum and I don't see the fuzz you're making about it. Isn't withdrawing from the game a bit uncalled for?

We've had everything in this game already, can it get even worse?

i think IB is being smart to apologize and withdraw, i accept his apologies and i think i should also apologize, even tho i did my best to help town as much as possible i may have been too angry at everyone.

[Leitz]

Indeed, the fact that you insulted a lot of people and got so angry cost you your lynch if you ask me. If you would've played it differently you'd still be alive. Anyhow, what's happened as happened, we can't change that anymore. I'm glad you realize your mistake. I don't know IB's role in this game, but it is always sad to have somebody withdraw from a game. This should be a fun, entertaining, thrilling mafia game. I'd also like to encourage sniper whose first time modding has been a tough one so far!

[Rodion]

On page 19 he created a link with a discussion he created to garner opinions to post. He created a discussion outside the game.
Sniper was unaware that Rodion had created the thread, he just thought they were links to information hence why he was allowed to do so.

If you want more data on why I think claimed VTs when forced can't get away with it, I've asked the question in a forum. I'm willing to link you to that forum if Sniper says it's ok.

You may post that link Rodion, as long as it doesn't have to deal with anything that I sent you in a PM.

If you are going to apologize, I'd suggest you not to present false statements in the same post.

[Iron Butterfly]

*grin* I apologized for the name calling not the information or my point of view. The name calling is uncalled for and just ugly. Unless of course you wish to argue the meaning of "apology" as well.

[skillfusniper33]

After Review of the case on Rodion breaking Rule 4, of not talking about the game outside of the thread.

I have decided to Mod-kill Rodion for his actions. Since he created the forum, and used it to make a case on someone else. Even though I gave him permission to post the link, I had no clue it was breaking the rules, and he should have known he was breaking the rules when he started it.

Night 2 will be over in about 2 hours.

[MoB Deadly]

[Leitz]

Are we going to get to know the roles of both Rodion and Iron Butterfly? Or are these going to be kept secret?

[skillfusniper33]

Are we going to get to know the roles of both Rodion and Iron Butterfly? Or are these going to be kept secret?

I will explain more of it during the scene.

[skillfusniper33]

First I would like everyone to review the rules for the game. Which are listed right here
[spoiler=Rules]Rules:
1.The moderator is always right. Do not try and argue with me ([player]skillfusniper33[/player]). However we are all human and we all make mistakes. The moderator will try and fix any mistake he or she may have made.

2. Do not edit/delete previous posts. Whatever you say goes into historical record.

3. Do not quote any PM's you receive from the moderator or another player. You may say your name, role, associated abilities. This is a serious offence and could earn you a mod-kill, and/or a blacklist from future games.

4. The game will not be discussed outside this thread, unless your role specifically says you can.

5. All ‘votes’ and ‘unvotes’ must be in bold and red. If they are not, they will not be tallied. (I.E. Vote: Skill). You must first unvote and then vote to change your vote from someone. Mods may change this according to their wishes.

6. Lynching requires a majority of the town vote, once the majority has been reached any unvotes will not be counted. The majority is half the player's alive +1.

7. You may vote ‘no lynch’ to end the day without a death.

8. Lengths of days depend on moderators. Usually they are indefinite until the game starts dragging and then the moderator enforces a deadline.

9. Lengths of nights depend on moderator. Try and send the actions earlier if possible, and save everyone time. It's a hassle for the moderator to pm everyone who hasn't sent in an action.

10. Once your death scene has been posted, it's over for you. You can no longer post anything related to the game. Whining is alright, **Voices from beyond the grave** are alright, as long as nothing of substance is revealed. This means you can post something like "Damn you mafia!" or "Oh well. Go town!" but you cannot post and add to the discussion. This is a serious offence.

11. Be attentive and active in the game. You will be replaced if you don't post. If something prevents you to participate for a long period of time, announce it here or via PM. Help everyone's enjoyment of the game by being active and sending your actions promptly.

12. You cannot talk at night. You can do joke votes like "zzzzzz" if you want but don't let it get out of hand. Different moderators have different tolerance levels.

13. If you have any questions or doubts, send a private message to the moderator ([player]skillfusniper33[/player]) and ask for help. It would be much worse to remain unsure about your role, mafia rules, whatever than to ask the moderator and then understand. I will get back to your questions as soon as I possibly can.

14. Have Fun![/spoiler]

Second since Iron Butterfly withdrew, I am looking for a replacement for him. Hopefully I can find one very soon. I just posted I was looking for one last night in the replacements thread. That being said Iron Butterfly's role will not be revealed.

Third if there are any questions about my decision please send me a PM, instead of posting here in the thread. I have no issue further explaining my reasoning.

Finally the scene.

As the night was beginning no one was able to get to sleep with the continuing feud that wouldn't settle.

As the few who were able to gain a little sleep during the night headed back to his section of the bank, he was jumped by an unknown man. Before he could shout for help he was slain.

Maximumbandit “John Doe” Vanilla Townie was killed

Then behind the counter, someone had hidden themselves in the cabinets and waited until his target passed by him. Once he had seen him slip by he crept out and stalked him to the bathroom. Where he finally confronted him, and before the victim could explain himself he had a knife between his ribs.

Jonty125 “Manipulator” Mafia Vote Stealer has been killed

Meanwhile there was some stirring and movement from someone who they thought they wouldn't have to worry about anymore. But when everyone started to gather everyone was stunned to see wife Ginger appear for the next day.

Dueceswild222 has been revived Night 2

Rodion “Demolitions Expert” Mafia Bomber has been mod-killed.

Day 3 Begin

With 6 Alive it takes 4 for a lynch

[catnipdreams]

Dueceswild222 has been revived Night 2

Before I start trying to figure this out, a basic question: is Dueceswild222 still “Wife Ginger” Town Survivor, lover, or could Dueceswild be anything now?

[Leitz]

Well I don't think that night scene could've gone any better for town: loss of a VT, rebirth of another VT and 2 mafia lynched. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that leaves 1 mafia alive?

What is the exact role of mafia bomber?

@ catnip:

everyone was stunned to see wife Ginger appear for the next day

So yeah, I think she's still "Wife Ginger" Town Survivor.

[maximumbandit]

Even though I gave him permission to post the link, I had no clue it was breaking the rules, and he should have known he was breaking the rules when he started it.

As I am now dead, and after playing this game as a newbie have no intention of joining any future Mafia games - I have no problem saying that is absolutely the stupidest fucking ruling I have ever heard. He should have known it was breaking the rules? He asked you - the authority - for clarification. You said it was okay - then changed your mind and chose to punish him as if he had never asked. If you don't know the rules well enough to answer a simple question of "am I allowed to do this?" then you probably shouldn't be moderating.

Good riddance, Mafia forum.