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A town survivorIron Butterfly wrote:We already have a third party claimed Poisoner.
We have a Town Survivor, whos role is no use to town.
Chech Deuceswild222. Skimming noted.jonty125 wrote:No idea that's why I quoted IB and nobody has claimed that or died like that
In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3754708#p3754708]post 1[/url], springlullaby wrote:If the guy's innocence is under heavy suspicion, lynch away. If the guy flip town, all four people you have quoted are your scum suspects for using theory to justify a lynch.
But it looks like it's all from the same person anyway.
In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3754722#p3754722]post 2[/url], Llamarble wrote:Game theory usually says you should mix actually.
Scum will claim whatever makes them less likely to get lynched.
So if all claimed VTs get lynched, scum will always claim a PR.
If you never lynch claimed PRs D1, scum will always claim a PR D1 and can never die D1, which means you were probably better off lynching randomly.
And if scum always claim PRs, anybody who claims VT is conftown, so you don't want to lynch them.
Equilibrium is probably lynching claimed VTs some percentage X of the time which is likely substantially greater than 50% and lynching claimed PRs a substantial fraction of the time too.
In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3754729#p3754729]post 3[/url], Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:Um, no. Getting scum to make a claim that they have to back up for the rest of the game can be very worthwhile.In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3754722#p3754722]post 2[/url], Llamarble wrote:If you never lynch claimed PRs D1, scum will always claim a PR D1 and can never die D1, which means you were probably better off lynching randomly.
To answer the question, a vt claim isn't going to prevent me from voting for that player 90% of the time. Scum claim vt plenty and well, a vt is less valuable, especially when it's a vt that manages to get himself run up and one that would claim at L-2.
In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3754882#p3754882]post 4[/url], Kublai Khan wrote:Agreeing with this.In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3754729#p3754729]post 3[/url], Cogito Ergo Sum wrote:To answer the question, a vt claim isn't going to prevent me from voting for that player 90% of the time. Scum claim vt plenty and well, a vt is less valuable, especially when it's a vt that manages to get himself run up and one that would claim at L-2.
In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3754999#p3754999]post 8[/url], LynchMePls wrote:All of the OPs points are valid logic. What I'd be more interested in is how people use those ideas and the apparent motivations behind them. The VT claim only means there is no role based reason to abandon the lynch, it should not be used as the justification for the hammer. The player's ACTIONS/WORDS should be used as the justification for the lynch/hammer. Those hiding behind these sorts of arguments need further scrutiny, especially when the VT actually flips VT.
In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3755451#p3755451]post 9[/url], Yosarian2 wrote:If someone claims vanilla, then you need to really have a STRONG reason to think they're town in order to keep them alive. Letting claimed vanillas live is very bad for the chances of the town's power roles, and the vanilla claim doesn't actually help the town at all.
I mean, you don't lynch someone for claiming vanilla if you're confident they're town, but if you're not, then get rid of them. Also, if you're going to unvote someone if they claimed vanilla, you never should have pressured them in the first place; or, conversely, if they claimed vanilla without pressure, then they're a VI and the town's probably better off with them gone anyway.
The real answer to the question is "real vanilla townies should almost never claim at all."
Zimmah's claim is undoubtedly weird, but I'll stick to my original statement that it would take a miracle for my vote to change, for all the reasons I've already stated and all the blue highlights (in spite of the reds which I obviously disagree with) that agree with me.In [url=http://www.mafiascum.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3758859#p3758859]post 21[/url], LlamaFluff wrote:If you think the player is VT, you absolutely pull the wagon off them. Thats basically where this discussion ends at its most simple point. I have quite a bit of success getting a wagon off a claimed VT player and getting them called town by most of the game, all of mes have done this in the past, and im going to keep doing it in the future. Sometimes its just really obvious the VT claim is real if you apply the right tells.
All of your quotes are bad though, especially 1 and 2 who I would vote just for saying that.
Apologies, wrote down he was VT on my lil' sheet of paperRodion wrote:Chech Deuceswild222. Skimming noted.jonty125 wrote:No idea that's why I quoted IB and nobody has claimed that or died like that
Not sure whether this is an attempt to discredit me, but obviously you are not forced to go with the "cherry picking". The whole thread is public and you have the freedom to see and argue outside of what I highlighted in either blue or red.Iron Butterfly wrote:Rodion you have obviously been able to "cherry pick" posts from discussions about Town theory. granted.
I think I've been clear enough regarding my position. Perhaps if you had paid attention to everything I've said in D2 you would not be asking me this unnecessary question?Iron Butterfly wrote:The only reason I am up for lynch by your crew is I put pressure on you. I will admit that it may have seemed like a small reason at the time but it was somthing that made me question your alignment.
After all the sellf Destructive drama from Zimmah when we applied pressure and then to claim such a powerful role with you only saying his role is curious...is more then curious to me.
The evidence against Zimmah is a hell of alot bigger.
Zimmah has claimed a role that is pretty much unkillable with its implied threat and game changing ramifications yet you dont even give it a second look?
This doesn't ring true to me at all. I came in to this game, brand new to mafia games, fully expecting to make cases against other players, and have other players make cases against me - that is the whole point, isn't it? So this is business as usual for Mafia players. It's a game. Lynches of Town folks will happen, for the wrong reasons. People who are telling the truth will not be believed. People who are lying will be believed. It's a challenge to figure it out from the clues we have. It is up to everyone in this game to decide what they think about what someone has said. IB could be right, IB could be wrong, but to categorically state, so strongly, that IB is wrong, stands out to me. I also don't like the linkage of IB's arguments to Zimmah's rage. Zimmah is the only person in this game who is reacting this way; his rage is personal to him, and should not be used to add weight to the validity (or lack of validity) of someone else's arguments.Rodion wrote:Before we apply claims into the equation, I think Zimmah's only suspicious act was how he handled Catnip on D1. The "drama" you mentioned is something I can easily relate to, because I've argued countless times with people that don't know what they are talking about and still vote you. I know how the feeling sucks and there are several ways of coping with it, one of them being the rage you've seen Zimmah display. If you had stopped to realize how wrong you have been in your arguments, Iron, perhaps you would understand why Zimmah is feeling that way.
Agreed! It feels like this is cooling off due to the divided opinion of most of us and seeing it is such a small game those two missing players do make the difference..Iron Butterfly wrote: We need bandit and sundog to step up and post.
I think I've contributed all that I could have so far in D2, thank you very much. And I stand by what I said earlier in the day - I don't think anything wildly convincing has been said. You and Rodion have gone back and fourth at each other without raising anything beyond minor suspicion against each other. Though, if my choice to abdicate thus far from voting due to my perceived lack of hard evidence is unacceptable - I can easily cast my vote on the one who is putting my feet to the fire.maximumbandit wrote: I really don't think there has been a single wildly convincing argument made in the case of lynching anyone - though the above quote of Rodion's seems to me to be the most concerning.
This statement of mock profundity also rings suspicious to me. In the game of Mafia, isn't every day important to lynch mafia? That's as redundant as saying "In baseball, it's important to score runs."Iron Butterfly wrote:This day is important to lynch Mafia. If Town does not it will not be the end of the world but it will make it harder for town to win.
Can you explain to me how you think Zimmahs role is even possible? I am flabbergasted people even remotely believe him. I am 90% sure Zimmah is scum at this point.Rodion wrote: In summary, while both Zimmah and you (Iron) can't prove the roles you've claimed, I consider Zimmah to be less suspicious. Moreover, if we are to pick wrongly, losing Zimmah will also endanger us considerably more.
Yes, they both are.Sundog308 wrote:Could we get Skill to do another post confirming the lynching status? I think both Zimmah and IB are at L-2 right now?

The way he claimed, if town makes a mistake and lynches him, town loses 3 members (Zimmah + other 2).MoB Deadly wrote:How can Zimmahs role, upon lynch, kill 2 more townies? You have modding experience, does that sound remotely balanced/probable?
You are correct. If he is scum, he has a perfect fakeclaim (provided people believe him). He may be speaking the truth, but he could also be bluffing. Are you willing to call it and risk the heavy consequences? I'm not.MoB Deadly wrote:Do you see how his claim (if believed) guarantees his survival to the end of the game? Don't you see that his claim is a perfect fake claim for mafia if people believe him?
This thought makes sense to me. Zimmah's emotions got involved in the game, which made things complicated, but not so much so to go out defending him and pushing towards IB. For the IB/Rodion issue, I'm convinced that one of them is mafia.Iron Butterfly wrote: The problem for you is your fate is also tied to Zimmahs so you have a vested interest in him living. I beleive his claim is as valid as the Jester claim he suggested. I beleived the Jester role was bs and I beleive his claim was BS.

see why i raged so much now? town is on the fail train right now, full speed.Rodion wrote:Helluva speedhammer, MoB.