[Official] NBC Mafia Town Win MVP=trinicardinal

[dazza2008]

As far as trying to slip in to the background, I'm still right here, answering questions, and standing by my opinions untill I hear something better.

Well not really pal. You never commented on what chap and drunkmonkey said. You have been very non-commital and do seem to be trying to look helpful without saying alot. This seems like the best case to me right now as I have already stated my reasons for believing BG's claim so vote Swifte

[Swifte]

You never commented on what chap and drunkmonkey said.

However, I do think the case against Swifte has some merit. It really does appear that he is doing nothing more than appearing to be helpful and then blend back into the crowd. And I find his voting to be scummier than BG's.

Several others have said 'gosh it's not a great case but it's the best we've got so I'll vote' and contributed nothing more to the conversation, I don't see why my saying it's not a great case is any different from anyone else, or why is this okay for everyone else yet I am tagged as un-committal? It's day 1 and we've only taken a hard look at 2 players, of course we don't have a solid case, and I never presented it as such, just as my opinions and observations to get conversation going again.

As far as trying to slip in to the background, I'm still right here, answering questions, and standing by my opinions untill I hear something better.

[Swifte]

Sorry for the double post here, I meant to hit preview but accidentally hit submit a moment ago.

You have been very non-commital and do seem to be trying to look helpful without saying alot.

It's day one and we've had no solid cases, what am I supposed to commit to? You and drunkmonkey, and to a lesser extent chap, have been happy to hop off the other bandwagons and on to me because the cases have not been strong, so why am I the only one being held to the standard that I should be 100% committed to the BG case?

If people haven't found my observations helpful then that's their opinion but I don't see how what I said was any less valid than anybody else, and I put myself in the firing line apparently just by trying to keep conversation going this morning when it'd been dead almost 14 hours. So far MoB is the only one who's actually specifically addressed my comments (other than BG trying to make me look stupid) for what they were and responded with his own opinions about BG which is the type of productive conversation I wanted to spur so we could decide what to do about BG, rather than me being hit with these vague accusations of being 'non-committal', 'wordy' and 'trying to go unnoticed' which are about impossible to confirm or deny beyond what I've already argued.

As to my playing style, I will admit I am most often the mod when I play in real life amongst friends, so that might explain why my approach has seemed more that way as someone commented earlier. That's why I enjoy doing some of the 'business' things like tracking the time last posted and so forth. It's just a part of the game I enjoy.

[betiko]

I started watching the movie yesterday, here are some characters i think are among us 16:

-Jack
-his dog zero
-sally
-the mad doctor
-the double headed mayor

can the double headed mayor be an insane cop? we need to worry about that
Also, as the doctor is evil, is there any special doctor roles in mafia games?

[BGtheBrain]

****

[MoB Deadly]

Betiko, it is possible to have a mafia doctor (example Actor Mafia)

WOW i cant believe that was the result of that. I wish I didn't die the night before, that game got CRAZY

[trinicardinal]

I started watching the movie yesterday, here are some characters i think are among us 16:

-Jack
-his dog zero
-sally
-the mad doctor
-the double headed mayor

can the double headed mayor be an insane cop? we need to worry about that
Also, as the doctor is evil, is there any special doctor roles in mafia games?

I haven't watched the film in years... I'm going to try to view it again but its hard to get the quiet time... I did some checking of the characters... and figure you might also have some or all of these characters

Oogie Boogie - Boogie man - mafia?
Lock, Shock, and/or Barrel - Oogie Boogie's henchment -mafia?
Santa Claus - leader of Christmas Town
Igor - Dr Finklestein's assistant
The skeletal reindeer - pull Jack's sleigh

there are bound to be others as well and I'm not sure that all listed will be used.

[Epitaph1]

I started watching the movie yesterday, here are some characters i think are among us 16:

-Jack
-his dog zero
-sally
-the mad doctor
-the double headed mayor

can the double headed mayor be an insane cop? we need to worry about that
Also, as the doctor is evil, is there any special doctor roles in mafia games?

I haven't watched the film in years... I'm going to try to view it again but its hard to get the quiet time... I did some checking of the characters... and figure you might also have some or all of these characters

Oogie Boogie - Boogie man - mafia?
Lock, Shock, and/or Barrel - Oogie Boogie's henchment -mafia?
Santa Claus - leader of Christmas Town
Igor - Dr Finklestein's assistant
The skeletal reindeer - pull Jack's sleigh

there are bound to be others as well and I'm not sure that all listed will be used.

If Devil is one of the characters, there there might also be:
Clown with the tear away face
werewolf
Jazz trio
elves/christmas town characters
The tree with the skeletons
Vampires
mummy kid
pugsley kid

But all these are minor characters and will probably just be vanilla if they are included (except mb the clown, werewolf, or vampires).

Oogie boogie + lock/shock/barrel sound like a mafia to me. And that would be a good size considering the # of people in the game.

It seems like we struck a nerve with Swifte. I don't blame him for being non-committal with his vote initially, but the deciding factor that favors 51/49 voting BG is the color thing? That's pretty weak.

vote Swifte*

*However, I don't quite believe BG's claim, so I would be willing to vote his way if the consensus is to lynch him.

[Rodion]

1 - Important question: does anyone know whether mafia has fakeclaims or not?

2 - The light blue thing, in my opinion, tells more about Shield (and perhaps Jonty) than it does about BG.

On Swifte, I'll have to reread later in order to analyse the merit of the case.

[strike wolf]

1 - Important question: does anyone know whether mafia has fakeclaims or not?

Safari in the past usually gives fake claims.

2 - The light blue thing, in my opinion, tells more about Shield (and perhaps Jonty) than it does about BG.

On Swifte, I'll have to reread later in order to analyse the merit of the case.

Same both about the jonty and shield part and the rereading part. I was half-asleep over the last couple pages...

[trinicardinal]

1 - Important question: does anyone know whether mafia has fakeclaims or not?

I have no idea if they got fakeclaims. I would assume that they have been given fakeclaims but, given the listing of possible characters so far I doubt that any fakeclaims could be used for anything other than VT. As mentioned before this is part of the reason for suspicion on BG.

[shieldgenerator7]

1 - Important question: does anyone know whether mafia has fakeclaims or not?

2 - The light blue thing, in my opinion, tells more about Shield (and perhaps Jonty) than it does about BG.

On Swifte, I'll have to reread later in order to analyse the merit of the case.

What does the light blue thing have to do with me at alll?

[Rodion]

3 pages in 24 hours

MoB is still jokevoting FOS MoB

SG7 admits to BandWagonning FOS

Bg claims a minor role and losing a VT wouldn't be WCS also why is his role in light blue

Blue is usually the color the mods use to indicate townies. Why, is yours not blue?

2 - Shield's last post seems suspicious. I wonder if he thought BG's blue was ok when the standard town blue is darker than that. Shield could only think that by:
a) not being town
b) not paying attention (skimming)

The point here is that Jonty did realize that there was something wrong with BG's blue, while Shield, AFTER Jonty's question, did not see anything weird at all. If you were town with a dark blue shade, BG claimed with a light blue shade and a third player questioned the light blue bit, would you give the answer that Shield gave ("Blue is usually the color the mods use to indicate townies. Why, is yours not blue?")?

[jonty125]

All this light blue shannigans are getting on my nerves. It was just meant to be a passing comment.

I'll do a reread on the swifte case before putting my money where my mouth is but if the wagon do need me I will join.

[MoB Deadly]

[shieldgenerator7]

3 pages in 24 hours

MoB is still jokevoting FOS MoB

SG7 admits to BandWagonning FOS

Bg claims a minor role and losing a VT wouldn't be WCS also why is his role in light blue

Blue is usually the color the mods use to indicate townies. Why, is yours not blue?

2 - Shield's last post seems suspicious. I wonder if he thought BG's blue was ok when the standard town blue is darker than that. Shield could only think that by:
a) not being town
b) not paying attention (skimming)

The point here is that Jonty did realize that there was something wrong with BG's blue, while Shield, AFTER Jonty's question, did not see anything weird at all. If you were town with a dark blue shade, BG claimed with a light blue shade and a third player questioned the light blue bit, would you give the answer that Shield gave ("Blue is usually the color the mods use to indicate townies. Why, is yours not blue?")?

moot point. besides, if you could build a case off that it'd be all wifom. I don't understand why you think my response is fishy.

[Rodion]

This is not WIFOM at all, I just don't understand how your response was appropriate. Jonty asked a question that implied the town color was a darker shade of blue and you played dumb by ignoring the "light" part of the question and asking whether Jonty's color was not blue.

Did you skim BG/Jonty's interaction back when you posted?

[trinicardinal]

I started watching the movie yesterday, here are some characters i think are among us 16:

-Jack
-his dog zero
-sally
-the mad doctor
-the double headed mayor

can the double headed mayor be an insane cop? we need to worry about that
Also, as the doctor is evil, is there any special doctor roles in mafia games?

I never addressed this question form betiko and the doctor one was dealt with... While it is possible for there to be an insane cop, I would suspect that there is more likely to be a sane cop since insane cops tend not to show up much from what I have read in these forums.... That being said I would not eliminate the possibility altogether. I'm trying to guess what power roles there might be for town and if mafia would have any power roles also

[jonty125]

I started watching the movie yesterday, here are some characters i think are among us 16:

-Jack
-his dog zero
-sally
-the mad doctor
-the double headed mayor

can the double headed mayor be an insane cop? we need to worry about that
Also, as the doctor is evil, is there any special doctor roles in mafia games?

I never addressed this question form betiko and the doctor one was dealt with... While it is possible for there to be an insane cop, I would suspect that there is more likely to be a sane cop since insane cops tend not to show up much from what I have read in these forums.... That being said I would not eliminate the possibility altogether. I'm trying to guess what power roles there might be for town and if mafia would have any power roles also

If we have an insane cop I would place an extremely high bet on their to be another cop (sane)

[drunkmonkey]

I don't think it's helpful to speculate on power roles D1. Maybe D2, after we're trying to piece together what happened at night, but I don't think guessing at what roles might exist will get us anywhere today.

[trinicardinal]

I don't think it's helpful to speculate on power roles D1. Maybe D2, after we're trying to piece together what happened at night, but I don't think guessing at what roles might exist will get us anywhere today.

you're probably right on that one

[betiko]

I don't think it's helpful to speculate on power roles D1. Maybe D2, after we're trying to piece together what happened at night, but I don't think guessing at what roles might exist will get us anywhere today.

yup, just that I saw the movie between yesterday and today; and I obviously asked myself a few questions.

regarding santa, it sounds more like a survivor or something to me because the townies are not from the christmas village.

doctor frinkelstein makes a new creature and gives it half his brain, that could turn up to be some pretty crazy things in here.. with lover/mason roles?

the boogie man and the 3 kids are probably the mafia. if it s the case, the mafia leader must have some pretty big powers.. the kids are being told stuff by jack and they betray him for the boogie man...!

the mayor with his double face can really have some double sided stuff for the town, i don t know..

Regarding votes I don t really know what to think right now.. My case against chapcrap seems weaker cause i got no more material to add, BG and swifte did say some fishy stuff but i m not completely convinced by either case.. i ll wait!

[strike wolf]

So I decided to review the swifte case (for the record I also reviews the chap case but while I feel soemthing is a bit off about him...I can't pin point much for a case especially as inactive submarining does not seem like a legitimate reason anymore as he's reemerged and has been posting)...

I'll try to go ahead and get the ball rolling. I want to ask everyone a question. Consider the following list.

Players
1. Leitz
2. MoB Deadly
3. Rodion
4. jimfinn
5. shieldgenerator7
6. jonty125
7. dazza2008
8. trinicardinal
9. Swifte
10. drunkmonkey
11. BGtheBrain
12. Epitaph1
13. betiko
14. MeDeFe
15. chapcrap
16. strike wolf

1 - "Are you ok if we lynch the person that is right below you?" (for Strike Wolf, consider the first person on the list)

2 - "Why?"

1 - I would be torn.
2 - I dislike drunks but I like monkeys. Either way part of me would be happy and part sad. Nothing else tipping me one way or the other yet.

I agree that inactivity itself can be grounds for suspicion. However, I have just reviewed all players and all players in the game have posted within the last 48 hours. Obviously some more active than others, but far from deadbeats at this point. Dates are as of my own timezone I imagine.

[spoiler=Last posts by player]1. Leitz Tue, Nov. 8
2. MoB Deadly Tue, Nov. 8
3. Rodion Tue, Nov. 8
4. jimfinn Mon, Nov. 7
5. shieldgenerator7 Mon, Nov. 7
6. jonty125 Tue, Nov. 8
7. dazza2008 Tue, Nov. 8
8. trinicardinal Tue, Nov. 8
9. Swifte Tue, Nov. 8
10. drunkmonkey Tue, Nov. 8
11. BGtheBrain Mon, Nov. 7
12. Epitaph1 Tue, Nov. 8
13. betiko Tue, Nov. 8
14. MeDeFe Tue, Nov. 8
15. chapcrap Mon, Nov. 7
16. strike wolf Tue, Nov. 8[/spoiler]

let s put the question the other way; out of the 16 who do we trust a little? to tell the truth, i think that rodion by asking this question is one of the guys i would trust the most... aparently you guys have played this a few times together so you know each other better.. this means that I don t trust SG7

unvote vote SG7

The logic in this betiko quote was the most strange to me. Asking a question about trust automatically makes Roidon trustworthy? SG7 making a joke about Roidon always seeming to be in the mob earns a vote and distrust? I just didn't follow this at all, and some above have said it could have been a diversion to get attention off of Roidon. It's not a strong case, just seems like the strongest we have to go on so far. This is just my summary of those events, others may of course have interpreted differently.

Just post who you want me to prod, I'll send out the prod's ASAP.

I'll run through and update my last posting list when i get home in an hour or so.

Considering the amount of effort I've put into making cases against Bg and trini, I am a bit insulted right now.

Im sorry Strike Wolf, I DO appreciate your cases, you are one of the few that ARE contributing. I just dont agree with the cases enough to put a vote on them. I hate D1 so much

Updated Last post list - I've done my best to make this 100% accurate, please no hard feelings if I've made a slight mistake, but I did look very closely at each players posts. Bold added to the two players who we haven't heard from in 4 or more days. Dates based on my own time zone (Central US)

Players
1. Leitz - 2 days ago (Saturday)
2. MoB Deadly - today
3. Rodion - today
4. jimfinn - today
5. shieldgenerator7 - 4 days ago (Thursday)
6. jonty125 - today
7. dazza2008 - today
8. trinicardinal - today
9. Swifte - today
10. drunkmonkey - 1 day ago (Sunday)
11. BGtheBrain - today
12. Epitaph1 - 2 days ago (Saturday)
13. betiko - 2 days ago (Saturday)
14. MeDeFe - 2 days ago (Saturday)
15. chapcrap - 5 days ago (Wednesday)
16. strike wolf - today

So up to this point I don't see much to comment on besides that he has as been mentioned been very neutral. He's relied mostly on statistics and not gotten involved in cases. By itself it's not really much of a case as Andy took a similar role early on in the Futurama mafia but that does start to change after this post.

omg, what s going on here lol!

I don t think the light blue and the post editing are real cases.
I have little experience in this, but is it a tell not to vote ever?
swifte s never voting nor getting really involved. I almost see him as another mod sumarizing player s activities..
no one said anything about my chapcrap case nor trini's..
We see lots of people FOSing strike but no one votes for him.
So is BG really a VT? i don t think there was that much pressure on him or anything to claim his role at that point.....

Dazza, I didn t get your vote problem?

-I don't see not voting yet as an issue. I value my vote and prefer not to throw it around lightly. So far I have not seen a case worth voting for immediately, and I think most people have agreed that there have not been any strong cases, primarily voting for pressuring which I think others have done plenty of without me bandwagoning. If I feel I need to vote to apply pressure, I would be willing to do that, but so far I just haven't felt it necessary, there's been enough of that going on to stir the pot. I have been following closely, and when the time comes (which is now pretty soon) I will state my case and will make my vote.

- I think that when a day stretches across about 20 pages it's important for someone to summarize the action from time to time, especially when things have gotten so off-topic that we've almost lost track of cases. I view this as a valuable contribution, and equally as important to the sniping back and forth others engage in. I feel this is one of my strengths as a player, a way I can contribute that others thus far have not, so I have taken on that role, and it is a role that requires being engaged in the game and understanding and processing the arguements that have been made, which is where i've directed more of my energy rather than trying to pile on every accussation.

I will go ahead and throw my two cents out there on everything since activity has slowed again a little. While I didn't initially find there to be much in strike's case against BG, the last 36 hours have been pretty revealing. Here's the reasons I submit my vote BG:

- His last several posts have the tone of someone who has given up, and just wants to get out of the game. I've seen this behavior plenty of times before from someone who's been busted.v

I could see you taking this view however...between what happened in your above post where you claimed to not buy into any of the current cases to when you posted this not much had changed. Only a few posted (none of which were BG) and nothing much seems to have changed in the case against BG (except for one vote). So the timing here appears suspect to me.

- The VT claim is weak. I know people have said 'who cares about the color' - but if claiming to be townie is your last arguement, don't you go to the effort to make that claim as convincing as possible and use the right color blue? To me, it's a little thing, but it tips it to 51/49 odds of being false. I don't think the character selected matters at all.

The shade of blue argument is bs. Enough said.

- Honestly, it doesn't seem like BG has shown an ability to contribute to any of the previous cases, mostly bandwagoning, and he was completely unable to defend himself against strike. If he can't make any solid arguements or refute anything, how can he contribute at all to the game, one way or the other?

All these things together add up to a relatively weaker player with a weak claim that could either be a mafia who has been busted or maybe really just a vanilla townie without much arguementative skill, and while it's not desireable to lynch a townie, I don't think BG would even be able to help the townie cause much if his claim does hold true.

I do think it's a bit unfair to say that he can't contribute in general. Maybe in this game this hasn't been his best effort and I know I've been his biggest critic in this game however he does have the potential to contribute and contribute well to the games he is in and will be a part of. So not really an argument to your guilt here just something I wanted to point out.

I guess my main point in this post is what I mentioned earlier. WHat changed in the half a day or so that made you change your mind about the BG case? Because I don't see anything.

I don't see anything in his next few comments that seem worth commenting as it would mostly involve just repeats of what I've said without anything that would actually add to the case.

[strike wolf]

3 pages in 24 hours

MoB is still jokevoting FOS MoB

SG7 admits to BandWagonning FOS

Bg claims a minor role and losing a VT wouldn't be WCS also why is his role in light blue

Blue is usually the color the mods use to indicate townies. Why, is yours not blue?

2 - Shield's last post seems suspicious. I wonder if he thought BG's blue was ok when the standard town blue is darker than that. Shield could only think that by:
a) not being town
b) not paying attention (skimming)

The point here is that Jonty did realize that there was something wrong with BG's blue, while Shield, AFTER Jonty's question, did not see anything weird at all. If you were town with a dark blue shade, BG claimed with a light blue shade and a third player questioned the light blue bit, would you give the answer that Shield gave ("Blue is usually the color the mods use to indicate townies. Why, is yours not blue?")?

moot point. besides, if you could build a case off that it'd be all wifom. I don't understand why you think my response is fishy.

Rodion's point does not qualify as wifom nor is it moot. Is it weak yes? but not moot or wifom. what he is getting at is that you did not question why jonty questioned the light blue part but that you questioned jonty for thinking blue was weird in general. You didn't seem to comprehend that Jonty felt the LIGHT blue was weird not the blue in general. It is an odd reaction.

[chapcrap]

Haven't been able to check the game in about 24 hours. Was fully expecting to have to catch up on 4 or 5 pages. Thank you for not making me.

That said, strike, you're review of the Swifte case is the same thing I saw initially. It's that he decided to start voting BG when nothing had really changed since his post before. And the funniest thing is that he said 'I don't like to throw my vote around lightly' and then proceeded to throw his vote around onto a case that he later said wasn't great.

Doesn't make a lot of sense.

As far as the blue issue with shield/jonty/whoever... I don't see it as a big deal. Jonty thought it was curious. I too thought it was a little funny to bold your claim. I didn't really care and don't think that it's a big deal that it was done, just something funny that I wouldn't have commented on, because I didn't think it noteworthy. I think shield was just following up on jonty's post.

The only issue that I could see coming up with the color thing is if someone actually tried to use it against BG.

So, I after reviewing Swifte's case, with a lot of help from strike, I will unvote vote Swifte for his contradiction and illogical voting pattern.