[UNKNOWN] Mafia Day 5 - The Disappearance [Abandoned]

[safariguy5]

Yeah, I'm not sure what to think about Sax. It almost seems like he's playing far too flippantly and cares little about his role. Could be a VT trying to soak up a NK? Or maybe he's bulletproof and hoping someone will target him.

[freezie]

Either way, can someone post a good reason to go against sax today? We have good reason to beleive he could be a jester. If he's town he's obviously too stupid to help us. If he's scum he's going to get nk'ed as per the jester accusation anyway.

Where, in all possible scenarios, is good for us to go against him?

[VioIet]

Yeah, I'm not sure what to think about Sax. It almost seems like he's playing far too flippantly and cares little about his role. Could be a VT trying to soak up a NK? Or maybe he's bulletproof and hoping someone will target him.

In that case, it may in fact be a good strategy. If he is indeed a VT.

[ShaggyDan]

Sorry guys, as you can tell from my other games I managed to set aside some time for a mass-catch up today. I do still have an exam on tuesday (that somehow wasn't on my calendar) but I'll probably still be able to post more. Study is boring -.-

Anywho onto my thoughts (albiet late) for today:

BIG FLAVOUR SPEC WALL BEGIN

- The shadow kills with a poison dart. I think this rules out any kind of vampire or werewolf. The shadow tried to kill a templar in the N1 scene. A shadow doesn't fit with Genghis Kahn and Saladin, and to be honest it sounds like an evil character. IMO: Shadow is a serial killer.

- Genghis Kahn and Saladin: I'm not sure why they were even mentioned in the day scene. I imagine they've fulfilled some kind of night action requirement? Maybe something big from them is coming? That's the only reasoning I can see for them being in the day scene, unless another player has a role which means what they see gets put into the day-scene.

- There is at least one werewolf left. The werewolves may be evil, but I also see it very possible they had a different win-con. Like "taking out vampires and monster-killers" or something. Then again they may be our main evil faction as well. Purple as a colour pretty much defines they are a seperate faction, and werewolves sound scary so I would assume they are anti-town.

- Vampires: With the original vampire left I would assume there will be no more recruitment from them? We already got the one that was recruited night 1 so that leaves a possible cult goon and maybe a night 2 recruit? Definitely evil.

- Templars: One was vampirized and one was killed night one. With 25 to start and with so many different factions there may only be one or two left. Not sure if they have town or anti-town goals but the flavour suggests that they are not killing at least.

Okay to summarise my thoughts on flavour spec:

- 1 serial killer.
- 2 war generals (?)
- 2 werewolves.
- 1 (or 2) vampires.
- 2 Knights of Templars (allignment unkown)

With 3 anti-town already killed that would be put the ratio at 10 anti town: 15 town. Kind of fits? Probably a few other nastys still hidden or some other 3rd-party roles about as well.

I will go out on a limb and say the theme has something to do with famous literature / famous fiction.

BIG FLAVOUR SPEC WALL END

As far as my thoughts on players rather than flavour spec:

I plan on looking at Rodion's and Pancake's interactions with people when I get a chance to have a more in-depth read. With 2 confirmed vampires on Day 2 dead we may be able to get a lead into any other vampires possibly still alive (as a cult-goon). Though there is a chance this faction is destroyed.

I think Sax is joking perhaps? And although that would be effort better put into building a case; it's not really a scummy thing to do. I don't think scum would be bringing unwanted attention to themselves that way. The skimming and such is annoying, but not really scummeh. If he's telling the truth then I don't think pikachu would be an anti-town role.

The problem with so many different anti-town factions is it makes it really hard to establish links between players that are evil. I don't think I've ever played a game with more than 3 factions and it's doing my head in a little tbh, may need a bit of time to get some solid thoughts out.

Sorry again for the inactivity. Will do my best to post more often .

[Talapus]

Honestly at this point I see any vote on sax as a waste. It seems kinda obvious his character or possible PR is causing the confusion. But regardless I don't see him as a threat. The vig can NK and then we don't have to waste our time on taking him out. I think we need to focus of trying to find the remaining faction members in this game. With so many factions the win conditions can range anywhere from survival up to elimination of a certain faction by another group. For all we know one faction is hunting another one at night. And honestly it would make sense as is makes them search for scum while the rest of us do the same.

Regardless, I will not be voting for sax. I need to look back again and see if there is something decent I can build off of to place a vote.

[safariguy5]

Honestly at this point I see any vote on sax as a waste. It seems kinda obvious his character or possible PR is causing the confusion. But regardless I don't see him as a threat. The vig can NK and then we don't have to waste our time on taking him out. I think we need to focus of trying to find the remaining faction members in this game. With so many factions the win conditions can range anywhere from survival up to elimination of a certain faction by another group. For all we know one faction is hunting another one at night. And honestly it would make sense as is makes them search for scum while the rest of us do the same.

Regardless, I will not be voting for sax. I need to look back again and see if there is something decent I can build off of to place a vote.

That's true, although I wonder if there's an Underworld style tone in this game with werewolves vs vampires sort of thing. Although I don't think we can make any assumptions about vampire recruiting and werewolf recruiting until every member is dead because both of those factions potentially could have recruitment pass to the next member should the original recruiter die. Of course, that's just flavor spec.

[edocsil]

Honestly at this point I see any vote on sax as a waste. It seems kinda obvious his character or possible PR is causing the confusion. But regardless I don't see him as a threat. The vig can NK and then we don't have to waste our time on taking him out. I think we need to focus of trying to find the remaining faction members in this game. With so many factions the win conditions can range anywhere from survival up to elimination of a certain faction by another group. For all we know one faction is hunting another one at night. And honestly it would make sense as is makes them search for scum while the rest of us do the same.

Regardless, I will not be voting for sax. I need to look back again and see if there is something decent I can build off of to place a vote.

That's true, although I wonder if there's an Underworld style tone in this game with werewolves vs vampires sort of thing. Although I don't think we can make any assumptions about vampire recruiting and werewolf recruiting until every member is dead because both of those factions potentially could have recruitment pass to the next member should the original recruiter die. Of course, that's just flavor spec.

lol and then we have to deal with this boy.

[safariguy5]

I'd much rather deal with this girl.

http://calmdowntom.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/kate-beckinsale-underworld-evolution.jpg

[safariguy5]

I'd much rather deal with this girl.

EBWOP

[Iliad]

It does look like the vampire and werewolf sects might be our biggest problem. What is especially worrying is that Rodion was a vampirized Knight Templar, so that probably means that they can recruit regardless of alignment.

[freezie]

It does look like the vampire and werewolf sects might be our biggest problem. What is especially worrying is that Rodion was a vampirized Knight Templar, so that probably means that they can recruit regardless of alignment.

Or that templars are not alligned with Vampires ( and possibly werewolves ) and as such aren't a big threat to us. For now.

I'd rather see a human knight knocking on my front door than a werewolf Granted I wouldn't like either :S

[got tonkaed]

Considering the possibility that we may still be dealing with groups that could have recruit abilities it might not be a bad idea to focus on players who have not really posted all that much. At the very least, if there are other factions that we still aren't aware of, we need to get them identified and sorted before things get too much farther down the line.

[targetman377]

Ok bleed to me seems like the scummest right now. His quick attack on saxlad just confirmed my suspicions.

I will vote him and have a much more indepth reason for him coming very soon.

VOTE BLEED

[VioIet]

It does look like the vampire and werewolf sects might be our biggest problem. What is especially worrying is that Rodion was a vampirized Knight Templar, so that probably means that they can recruit regardless of alignment.

Or that templars are not alligned with Vampires ( and possibly werewolves ) and as such aren't a big threat to us. For now.

I'd rather see a human knight knocking on my front door than a werewolf Granted I wouldn't like either :S

Yep, I bet you do. So you could NK that human

I let this get brushed under the rug for too long. So, tell me, what did you have to do with...

While I personally have no real love for freezie this game either, I haven't seen any real evidence to prove that he's scum. He presented a somewhat true case on me that made me at least back off a little bit, but besides that, not much that can really be considered scummy.

Do you have any evidence for freezie being mafia Vio?

Why yes I do. But I've been playing this one so badly, and I think the time has come for me to take a gamble. I am privy to some information that freezie had something to do with AOG's death. I also have reason to believe that he had something to do with naxus death, but strikewolf blocked me while I was trying to track. Thanks strike.

Thanks a lot strike for blocking me last night.

Vote Freezie

FOS Strike

[safariguy5]

I'm masoned with strike and he isn't a roleblocker. Which means you are not town.

vote VioIet

[strike wolf]

What safari said. I am masoned with him (hey fir it's that connection you've been talking about!) And I am most certainly not a role blocker nor did I choose to visit vio last night. So it would appear you are lying.

[edocsil]

Well this is weird. Don't lynch her for this, at lest not yet. I think I see a few other options but I have no time to lay them out.

[freezie]

I have not visited AoG nor naxus..Nor anyone else for that matter.

So yes, she is lying. Strike beeing a roleblocker or not doesn't change anything. My vote stays.

[VioIet]

I have not visited AoG nor naxus..Nor anyone else for that matter.

So yes, she is lying. Strike beeing a roleblocker or not doesn't change anything. My vote stays.

I agree with you on one point of your posts. I do agree that strike being the roleblocker or not doesn't really matter. However i will debate that you had nothing to do with those deaths.

I know for a fact that more than one person targeted me last night- so it may have made some things skewy. But I know you had something to do with the murders on Night 1. That is why I was against you on Day 2. My idea was to lay very low- but strike put a damper in that. I didn't want to come out to soon, especially with the whole Rodion thing yesterday. But now is the time. If I don't say anything now, people will continue to think i'm scummy and try to block me/kill me/ drive me/ whatever.

My vote also stands.

[Fircoal]

What safari said. I am masoned with him (hey fir it's that connection you've been talking about!) And I am most certainly not a role blocker nor did I choose to visit vio last night. So it would appear you are lying.

Well would you look at that. ;3

Considering the possibility that we may still be dealing with groups that could have recruit abilities it might not be a bad idea to focus on players who have not really posted all that much. At the very least, if there are other factions that we still aren't aware of, we need to get them identified and sorted before things get too much farther down the line.

You know you may all think Commander is a crazy mod who likes nothing better but to see his captive players squirm as they have to deal with many wtf roles and factions but I'm afraid to tell you that, that is MY job. Instead I think Commander is just a normal crazy. I think the idea that he'd put in 3 factions with recruit abilities while possible is doubtful. I say that we certain try to hit one of these cause it's possible that they don't exist. The vamps are probably at 0 or 1, and the werewolfes are at 1 to 2, due to the amount of nights we had. (I forget the order for Commander actions) They probably can't get more people into their group, we're actually pretty safe. I say we try to lynch scum and if we notice one of another faction then we worry about it. Also because there were two recruit roles we should probably expect less scum too.

It does look like the vampire and werewolf sects might be our biggest problem. What is especially worrying is that Rodion was a vampirized Knight Templar, so that probably means that they can recruit regardless of alignment.

Or that templars are not alligned with Vampires ( and possibly werewolves ) and as such aren't a big threat to us. For now.

I'd rather see a human knight knocking on my front door than a werewolf Granted I wouldn't like either :S

Yep, I bet you do. So you could NK that human

I let this get brushed under the rug for too long. So, tell me, what did you have to do with...

While I personally have no real love for freezie this game either, I haven't seen any real evidence to prove that he's scum. He presented a somewhat true case on me that made me at least back off a little bit, but besides that, not much that can really be considered scummy.

Do you have any evidence for freezie being mafia Vio?

Why yes I do. But I've been playing this one so badly, and I think the time has come for me to take a gamble. I am privy to some information that freezie had something to do with AOG's death. I also have reason to believe that he had something to do with naxus death, but strikewolf blocked me while I was trying to track. Thanks strike.

Thanks a lot strike for blocking me last night.

Vote Freezie

FOS Strike

Violet would you be willing to bet your life that Freezie is scum?

[edocsil]

Vio, you must claim now. I have evidence that says you are either misguided or lying, so I would advise you to claim role character and actions before we decide to hang you.

[ShaggyDan]

I agree with Edoc, a full claim and actions would be good. You've already soft-claimed 'tracker', and also somehow know that more than one person targetted you last night.

I may have some information about this situation but will wait for a claim. I advise everyone not to rush into anything too quickly, we have a lot of people left alive with a lot of potential of people with information still alive but not caught up on the thread.

[strike wolf]

Depending on vio's claim I probably have some information of my own that has yet to be said so I would advise the roles that haven't already been partially compromised (me and saf) to not blurt out anything too quickly as it may be something we can answer without further revealing town powers.

[safariguy5]

Depending on vio's claim I probably have some information of my own that has yet to be said so I would advise the roles that haven't already been partially compromised (me and saf) to not blurt out anything too quickly as it may be something we can answer without further revealing town powers.

I can guarantee that strike isn't a roleblocker, so Vio is wrong on both counts.

[targetman377]

Bleed case sorry for the voting before i actually set out a case.

-His whole attack on sax. Now I think sax could contribute more to the discussion but. Bleed seems to take that to the very extreme. Basically looking for an easy kill.
-Also a big point on the sax case was a joke (i think it was a joke maybe in bad tast but if you can't see it as a joke while then you need to find a sense of humor.
-Bleed seems to much rather talk about the scense rather then find scum (unless he thought it would be an essay kill

Apparently Commander has had 5 different factions in a game before.

That would be Post Apoc mafia. I haven't seen two anti town cult factions before though.

That said, I don't think the Knights Templar are anti-town, just a mason faction possibly?

I would agree have to agree that the Knights Templar are some other fraction then anti-town.

I think with Rodions character being converted to a vampire would but them as an anti town fraction, as for the werewolves I am not to sure where they would stand since one just attempted to kill Nosferatu but that is there only attempt for a kill.

Strike Wolf - sorry I went back and reread the N1 scene and it shows that there was then attempt on the shadow but his reflex saved him, did not say anything about injury but with Nosferatu N2 death scene pointing out with the attempt on his life failing I would have to agree with that the Shadow has been found.

When do some rereading on D2 it was brought up the C9 might be playing with colours to distinguish fractions of the game. So I have gone back and looked at this aspect over and it does seem to be that way.

Rome and Juliet Characters displayed as blue (Shield and Nam)
Knights Templar displayed as yellow writing (AOG)
Vampires displayed as red (pancakemix and Rodion)
Werewolves displayed as purple (naxus)

Blue - I am thinking mostly likely town

yellow - I think third party not really against town, only thing against them is that Radion was converted to a vampire which doesn't mean that prior to this he was anti or pro town

red - scum, scenes clearly depict that they were out to kill

purple - not sure yet as they has not been a death scene caused by a werewolf only an attack against a vampire so cannot be certain of pro town either

You see i can agree with speculation on this game i just think its fishy that you are so willing to talk about the theme of the game but you don't actually look for scum. For me I really don't care what is going on with the theme of the game i read it and look for clues. But lets face it if commander put hints at who was who in the scene that would be an unfair advantage. Thats just how i think so i really think what most important is to watch how people act and not act based on if someone claims something about the them i really don't care.

-Even though Rodin was scum he did have a point. about bleed he claimed the theme was only romeo and Juliet and then claims that his charictor has nothing to do with romo and juilet. ( yeah i know i said i don't care about the theme but this is just to big to pass up it shows you are willing to lie in this game bleed. also since you manily talk about the theme this fits in with my case.)

-day one you really did not say much even though rodin was attacking you alot!!! you left your defense to strike sooo. I find that intresting.

Stirke wolf said

The argument that cult may have recruited bleed seems weak and a bit wifomy to me. there appears to be multiple factions and i have to imagine that mafia and cult were more aware of that fact then town. It was also noted in thread by more than one person that there is the potential for multiple scum groups in this game prior to this incident so I do not believe scum would assume that by virtue of him not appearing to be aligned with Rodion they should automatically try to recruit him. It would seem just as logical for scum to try to recruit me or one of the others who were strongly pushing against Rody as that person would likely appear more town like. I know this argument is also somewhat wifomy but I am just using this to counter a wifom argument so I think that is justifiable.

based on how well Rodin faked claimed i could total see this as an option and could be vampire,scum or anything anti town.