I am wondering if I have even heard the case actually made in any detail as to whether or not this is all Bushes Fault. Obama just does the soundbyte, as most politicians do.
My belief is that most of the economies problems are due to the real estate correction. With lower prices, there are lower taxes, and then cuts to services or higher taxes (usually both. My taxes went up here and my paved road out front is now gravel). The ripple effect from real estate should be pretty obvious to most. I just would like to actually hear a detailed, fact based explanation as to how this is Bushes fault.
Last edited by Phatscotty on Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:25 pm, edited 3 times in total.
I feel comfortable blaming Bush for spending Billions and billions of dollars starting 2 expensive wars. We'd probably have a lot more money if we didn't waste it on killing people.
But I know I've mentioned this before...
Hi, my name is the Bison King, and I am COMPLETELY aware of DaFont!
Army of GOD wrote:Obviously Scotty doesn't think it's bush's fault. What about that other thread that asks where you stick it?
bump it then. I think Bush could have stepped up and done something for the people/against the bankers by vetoing profligate housing/lending/spending legislation that encouraged/damn near created the Real Estate bubble. But, in reality, if vetoed he never would have gotten re-elected in a nation full of seeing is believing and don't worry about tomorowers
Last edited by Phatscotty on Sat Sep 25, 2010 5:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Phatscotty wrote:I am wondering if I have even heard the case actually made in any detail as to whether or not this is all Bushes Fault. Obama just does the soundbyte, as most politicians do.
My belief is that most of the economies problems are due to the real estate correction. With lower prices, there are lower taxes, and then cuts to services or higher taxes (usually both. My taxes went up here and my paved road out front is now gravel). The ripple effect from real estate should be pretty obvious to most. I just would like to actually hear a detailed, fact based explanation as to how this is Bushes fault.
Some of it is, absolutely. Some of it is not. Plenty is Congress' fault (from all three of their respective Presidential terms)...probably more than either President.
The Bison King wrote:I feel comfortable blaming Bush for spending Billions and billions of dollars starting 2 expensive wars. We'd probably have a lot more money if we didn't waste it on killing people.
Yes to Iraq, no question. No to Afghanistan...we needed to do something there, no question.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
BigBallinStalin wrote:So anybody going to counter Bison's point about those two wars?
I think the wars are a part of last decades problems. Another is the fact that we, as a nation, can't get along anymore or make fair compromises. Also, I think people also overestimate the amount of power the president has in general in shaping the economy. The president may have all the best ideas, but if congress won't pass it, it's worthless, especially since every member of congress wants whats best for the voters that got them into office and not necessarily the nation as a whole.
BigBallinStalin wrote:So anybody going to counter Bison's point about those two wars?
I don't know much about the wars. I know that the war in Iraq shouldn't have been. Pretty much like Bush shouldn't have been elected in the first place, but apparently people like to turn the page quite easily.
I would like to know about the war in Iraq, if any of you have some analysis on the economic output of the world, from all points of view. Including access to oil and new markets, jobs generated and money spent.
BigBallinStalin wrote:So anybody going to counter Bison's point about those two wars?
I think the wars are a part of last decades problems. Another is the fact that we, as a nation, can't get along anymore or make fair compromises. Also, I think people also overestimate the amount of power the president has in general in shaping the economy. The president may have all the best ideas, but if congress won't pass it, it's worthless, especially since every member of congress wants whats best for the voters that got them into office and not necessarily the nation as a whole.
There...where you wrote "the voters that got them into office"...you misspelled that. It should have been spelled "themselves".
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
Okay I am 100% with you guys so far about Iraq. But, like always, can I color the tone with a US hegemonic dollar perspective?
The question here, how do you feel about Iraq given that Saddams refusal of the USD for his oil could have led to a dollar dumping contagion by other likewise interested but less vocalized middle east nations so fast and furious that the bailouts and stimilus package would look like tiddly winks in comparison?
All that bullshit, you are right, it was all half truths and straight up BS sometimes. How the hell would Bush etc make the case for war based on US monetary domination? The only time I think this was ever referenced was in the use of the term "national security"
Phatscotty wrote:Okay I am 100% with you guys so far about Iraq. But, like always, can I color the tone with a US hegemonic dollar perspective?
The question here, how do you feel about Iraq given that Saddams refusal of the USD for his oil could have led to a dollar dumping contagion by other likewise interested but less vocalized middle east nations so fast and furious that the bailouts and stimilus package would look like tiddly winks in comparison?
All that bullshit, you are right, it was all half truths and straight up BS sometimes. How the hell would Bush etc make the case for war based on US monetary domination? The only time I think this was ever referenced was in the use of the term "national security"
I personally think those other nations are simply too damn greedy to be interested in doing anything of the sort. Otherwise, they'd have completely throttled us back by now and sent us back to the dark ages.
...I prefer a man who will burn the flag and then wrap himself in the Constitution to a man who will burn the Constitution and then wrap himself in the flag.
Phatscotty wrote:Okay I am 100% with you guys so far about Iraq. But, like always, can I color the tone with a US hegemonic dollar perspective?
The question here, how do you feel about Iraq given that Saddams refusal of the USD for his oil could have led to a dollar dumping contagion by other likewise interested but less vocalized middle east nations so fast and furious that the bailouts and stimilus package would look like tiddly winks in comparison?
All that bullshit, you are right, it was all half truths and straight up BS sometimes. How the hell would Bush etc make the case for war based on US monetary domination? The only time I think this was ever referenced was in the use of the term "national security"
I personally think those other nations are simply too damn greedy to be interested in doing anything of the sort. Otherwise, they'd have completely throttled us back by now and sent us back to the dark ages.
It has been more orderly, and you gasoline prices have been somewhat stable... are you sure we are not now descending into the dark ages?
It looks like the decline started at the same time as the Iraq War. coincidence?
