The Balkan Peninsula [FF] --Feb 2nd 2010--

[The Bison King]

It's really staring to bother me that I see me good maps in the recycling bin than in the foundry.

[Rih0]

Yeah, I agree this should be in the foundry.

[Industrial Helix]

If someone can secure the mapmaker's permission, it would be possible to revive it under a different mapmaker.

[perchorin]

If someone can secure the mapmaker's permission, it would be possible to revive it under a different mapmaker.

[player]ZeakCytho[/player] Last visited: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:25 pm
Just out of curiosity (and because I'm really interested in this map) will there ever come a point when work on this can be taken over without the original mapmaker's permission?

[natty dread]

The gameplay cannot be copyrighted... you can start another balkan peninsula map with the same gameplay but do your own graphics on it.

[perchorin]

The gameplay cannot be copyrighted... you can start another balkan peninsula map with the same gameplay but do your own graphics on it.

Thanks for the answer!

[The Bison King]

The gameplay cannot be copyrighted... you can start another balkan peninsula map with the same gameplay but do your own graphics on it.

hmm.....

[MrBenn]

If someone can secure the mapmaker's permission, it would be possible to revive it under a different mapmaker.

[player]ZeakCytho[/player] Last visited: Sun Nov 22, 2009 4:25 pm
Just out of curiosity (and because I'm really interested in this map) will there ever come a point when work on this can be taken over without the original mapmaker's permission?

I've had some contact with ZeakCytho, and while he doesn't have the time to be able to continue with CC just now, he's forwarded me the PSD and given me permission to continue working on it.

I think the first thing to do will be to get a review of the gameplay, and work towards the GP stamp. (which should be pretty much done?)

[The Bison King]

've had some contact with ZeakCytho, and while he doesn't have the time to be able to continue with CC just now, he's forwarded me the PSD and given me permission to continue working on it.

Really! That's exciting!

[Industrial Helix]

Well, then someone would need to take responsibility for updating the map.

[Industrial Helix]

Ok, seems that at least gameplay development is going to continue on this map... so it would be appropriate to move it to the gameplay workshop.

[Industrial Helix]

Now that we're considering gamplay, I'd suggest that Kosovo be made it own bonus as it is no longer a piece of Serbia under international jurisdiction but rather a full fledged member of the community of nations.

[Evil DIMwit]

Now that we're considering gamplay, I'd suggest that Kosovo be made it own bonus as it is no longer a piece of Serbia under international jurisdiction but rather a full fledged member of the community of nations.

Well, Serbia doesn't recognize Kosovo so it doesn't seem right that it should yield its bonus with just territories it considers incomplete. What I'm wondering is whether Serbia's +4 replaces Kosovo's +1 or just adds to it. I suspect it's better if it adds for a total of +5, since this combined bonus has 5 border territories, and is also so completely central.

[Industrial Helix]

After a little research it seems only about half the world recognizes Kosovo as an independent state, mainly the USA, EU and other countries dependent on the USA. Russia and China do not.

[MrBenn]

Having just read the the thread, I get the distinct impression that we were on the verge of giving out a GP stamp.

The 3-region bonuses can be split up using starting positions (4 groups of three territories), and the two single-territory areas will start neutral (with either 2 or three armies).

[Industrial Helix]

I'd prefer 2s.

[Evil DIMwit]

One more thing: Greece and Romania each have 10 territories, 3 borders, and get 6 bonus. That makes them more valuable than North America in Classic. And unlike NA, Greece and Romania are both kind of off to one side of the map. Plus, Greece has as good expansion potential as NA does -- it can expand from Thrace to Burgas to include European Turkey without gaining an extra border. Therefore I think Greece should be worth at most 5, and you may want to consider decreasing Romania (but it's less necessary).

[The Bison King]

One more thing: Greece and Romania each have 10 territories, 3 borders, and get 6 bonus. That makes them more valuable than North America in Classic. And unlike NA, Greece and Romania are both kind of off to one side of the map. Plus, Greece has as good expansion potential as NA does -- it can expand from Thrace to Burgas to include European Turkey without gaining an extra border. Therefore I think Greece should be worth at most 5, and you may want to consider decreasing Romania (but it's less necessary).

Good call.

[MrBenn]

Firstly, I'd just like to point out that ZeakCytho kept his PSD very well organised, which has made making changes really easy!

I've added a couple of paths to clarify attack routes around the islands, and have reduced the Greece and Romania bonuses to 5; hopefully this should be enough to pick up the gp stamp.
I think I've fixed all of the gfx issues that I picked up on before the map stalled; the biggest thing I've spent time working on is a new title for the map (which I think works a lot better than the old one, although it' could probably do with a few tweaks)
The biggest task on the to do list, is to work out what do do with the legend and minimap(s), and to work out what's going on with the sizing - the following image isn't the size that the map will end up at...
[bigimg]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj320/bpawley/Balkans01.png[/bigimg]

[The Bison King]

Mah lawd, I do believe I have the vapers.

[Evil DIMwit]

I'll sticky this. Though on second thought Romania may be better off with 6 bonus precisely since it has such a low expansion potential.

[Industrial Helix]

The minimap looks just fine to me. I find it completely understandable.

I kind of liked the old title...

Some of the terr. names could be re-arranged. Dalmacija and Stajerska are the ones that stand out to me.

Is there a big size file? Because upgrading from small to big is likely going to be a problem.

[MrBenn]

The minimap looks just fine to me. I find it completely understandable.

I kind of liked the old title...

Some of the terr. names could be re-arranged. Dalmacija and Stajerska are the ones that stand out to me.

Is there a big size file? Because upgrading from small to big is likely going to be a problem.

There's no need to worry about the file size; the working PSD is much larger... I just need to work out what sizes things need to be to get decent small/large maps... ideally I'd like to try and make the map a little bit shorter - I'm contemplating taking Crete off the bottom and substituting the Ionian islands as a replacement territory (after all, Keffalonia and Zante are already on the map).

Speaking of final gameplay tweaks, I'm not overly concerned about Romania being 5 or 6... my gut feeling is that 6 is a tad high, while 5 is a tad low... perhaps I'll just raise it back to 6 and be done with it. The other possible tweak is Bosnia, which would be a valid +2 bonus were it not adjacent to Kosovo and an easy(ish) +1. Again, it's probably slightly undervalued at +1 and slightly over-valued at +2

The minimap layout works at the moment, but before the map stalled, there were mixed reviews about it; I know Zeak wasn't too sure about the old title either, but I'm fairly open to ideas at the moment. I think the thing that really grates with me is the bevelled effect, which I don;t really think fits the style of the rest of the map. Ideally I'd like it to gel slightly better.

[MrBenn]

OK... Here's a quick update to show how things might work if I knock Crete off the bottom. I've also shaved a bit of headroom from the top which makes the map a lot shorter, and personally I think it looks quite a bit better because of it.

Gameplay-wise I've bumped Romania back up to 6. Keffalonia has been added to replace Crete (to keep the territory count the same), and I've shuffled some of the attack routes around a bit. I was a little worried about Attica becoming the gateway to half of Greece, which is why I've got rid of the bottleneck there. How does this look now?

[bigimg]http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj320/bpawley/Balkans02.jpg[/bigimg]

[Evil DIMwit]

I prefer the old legend arrangement. This minimap looks odd over the boot.

Bosnia being worth +2 I'm not sure about, since there are a bunch of 3-territory bonuses worth +2 and some of them are even more central than Bosnia. It's all relative, right?