Power Rankings

[cpurcell]

I think my clan is great and if I ranked any other clan higher then I'd try to join them.

...So you're saying L4D is #1?

---C

[pmchugh]

And what of Nemesis and their performance vs. THOTA? Does it seem right that the 8th or 9th ranked clan should be giving #1 a run for their money?

---C

In fairness there isn't much between us and those ranked ahead of us and any of them would be close challenges. Although I definately think we have closed the gap at least.

Anyhow I think the problem with everyone posting their ranking here is that people will not be happy with how they are viewed and it will cause arguments. I'm fairly certain this is the only reason why tofu posted their list:

Anyone care to ask THOTA where they placed TOFU?

[poptartpsycho18]

I think my clan is great and if I ranked any other clan higher then I'd try to join them.

...So you're saying L4D is #1?

---C

My statement means that I can't see myself in any other clan than I am now. I know and respect the people in my clan and I enjoy playing with them. I'm sure that everyone feels this way about their clan which is why you aren't to place your clan in your rating.

I'm sure that there would be arguments if everyone posted their lists, but at least it'd be honest. These lists are being made up by clan LEADERS. Having that title comes with responsibility and if you care enough to comprise the list at least have the cojónes to be honest about how you see everyone else and accept the consequences. And before anyone goes "Well you're not making a list that might cause conflict", my clan is part of the judged, so I should be able to offer my opinion whether or not I'm doing any judging.

[Chariot of Fire]

I think my clan is great and if I ranked any other clan higher then I'd try to join them.

...So you're saying L4D is #1?

---C

My statement means that I can't see myself in any other clan than I am now. I know and respect the people in my clan and I enjoy playing with them. I'm sure that everyone feels this way about their clan which is why you aren't to place your clan in your rating.

I'm sure that there would be arguments if everyone posted their lists, but at least it'd be honest. These lists are being made up by clan LEADERS. Having that title comes with responsibility and if you care enough to comprise the list at least have the cojónes to be honest about how you see everyone else and accept the consequences. And before anyone goes "Well you're not making a list that might cause conflict", my clan is part of the judged, so I should be able to offer my opinion whether or not I'm doing any judging.

Bravo

[cpurcell]

I think my clan is great and if I ranked any other clan higher then I'd try to join them.

...So you're saying L4D is #1?

---C

My statement means that I can't see myself in any other clan than I am now. I know and respect the people in my clan and I enjoy playing with them. I'm sure that everyone feels this way about their clan which is why you aren't to place your clan in your rating.

I'm sure that there would be arguments if everyone posted their lists, but at least it'd be honest. These lists are being made up by clan LEADERS. Having that title comes with responsibility and if you care enough to comprise the list at least have the cojónes to be honest about how you see everyone else and accept the consequences. And before anyone goes "Well you're not making a list that might cause conflict", my clan is part of the judged, so I should be able to offer my opinion whether or not I'm doing any judging.

If I would be to rank Nemesis, I certainly wouldn't rank us #1

---C

[poptartpsycho18]

I think my clan is great and if I ranked any other clan higher then I'd try to join them.

...So you're saying L4D is #1?

---C

My statement means that I can't see myself in any other clan than I am now. I know and respect the people in my clan and I enjoy playing with them. I'm sure that everyone feels this way about their clan which is why you aren't to place your clan in your rating.

I'm sure that there would be arguments if everyone posted their lists, but at least it'd be honest. These lists are being made up by clan LEADERS. Having that title comes with responsibility and if you care enough to comprise the list at least have the cojónes to be honest about how you see everyone else and accept the consequences. And before anyone goes "Well you're not making a list that might cause conflict", my clan is part of the judged, so I should be able to offer my opinion whether or not I'm doing any judging.

If I would be to rank Nemesis, I certainly wouldn't rank us #1

---C

That is such B.S.(capitalized even!) You totally would rank your clan #1! Look at your sig! It's huge and says that your clan is "where legends are made" There's no harm in thinking your own clan is the best.

[jpcloet]

This is all about perception. I see someone rated AOD lower than 2 clans we both owned in challenges and the league. I also see clans in the top 15 with major losing records. Quite interesting to see the perception though. Hopefully we'll spend more time on the battlefields proving this out.

[shocked439]

It's all about exposure, it's kind of like college football. Smaller teams who are less active on television never get ranked where they should. If you want your clan to be thought of as premier and ranked as such in the power rankings get aggressive. These rankings are great to see how others feel about where your clan stands. It's the opinions of other clans and should be taken as such. Use it as a tool and if you want to improve your rankings win some challenges, let people know who you are as a clan.

[poptartpsycho18]

It's all about exposure, it's kind of like college football. Smaller teams who are less active on television never get ranked where they should. If you want your clan to be thought of as premier and ranked as such in the power rankings get aggressive. These rankings are great to see how others feel about where your clan stands. It's the opinions of other clans and should be taken as such. Use it as a tool and if you want to improve your rankings win some challenges, let people know who you are as a clan.

Your comparison to sports increases my understanding, but only furthers my disinterest

[Gold Knight]

To be honest, I like the direction this is heading alot more than all the ladder talks. Even though I agree with JP that I think my clan may be slightly better than some of the perceived ranked above us, I care more about how others view our clan compared to what a math equation thinks. For example, when AOD got destroyed by TOFU, it may have been a poor showing on the scoreboard, but i gained a lot of respect not only for my opponents, but also my clanmates for sticking through it to the end and not being negative about the experience. I now think more highly of my clan now after that huge loss than before it, and I know a few of us gained some respect from our opponents for sticking it out and being sports about it.

I would post a list here, but as i stated before, im not sure results of challenges are a complete judgement of how good a clan actually is...

[MTIceman41]

I would post a list here, but as i stated before, im not sure results of challenges are a complete judgement of how good a clan actually is...

Agreed...thats why you have to look at all variables...like doing a valuation analysis on a stock or company...past performance is important..but present/future outlook also is vital for a more accurate ranking...its tedious but I think it will serve for a good foundation of where the clans rank

[Bruceswar]

I would post a list here, but as i stated before, im not sure results of challenges are a complete judgement of how good a clan actually is...

Agreed...thats why you have to look at all variables...like doing a valuation analysis on a stock or company...past performance is important..but present/future outlook also is vital for a more accurate ranking...its tedious but I think it will serve for a good foundation of where the clans rank

But don't the same clans usually end up on top? Take a look at the Conquers Cup... The teams left are THOTA vs Nemesis, IA vs LoW, and then KORT vs TOFU (Who both have moved on.) Is there really any surprises there? Only shocker is if THOTA were to lose to Nemesis. The only way a clan can really change itself is by recruiting.

[Gold Knight]

I would post a list here, but as i stated before, im not sure results of challenges are a complete judgement of how good a clan actually is...

Agreed...thats why you have to look at all variables...like doing a valuation analysis on a stock or company...past performance is important..but present/future outlook also is vital for a more accurate ranking...its tedious but I think it will serve for a good foundation of where the clans rank

But don't the same clans usually end up on top? Take a look at the Conquers Cup... The teams left are THOTA vs Nemesis, IA vs LoW, and then KORT vs TOFU (Who both have moved on.) Is there really any surprises there? Only shocker is if THOTA were to lose to Nemesis. The only way a clan can really change itself is by recruiting.

Not always true, a clan can definately improve with the members that were already in improving their game as well. Will use BPB as an example, formerly seen as a "social" clan, they now have some of the top players on the site and are in the Clan League Finals. They did this with a few recruits, but alot of it came from the founders and original members of the clan.

[the.killing.44]

I would post a list here, but as i stated before, im not sure results of challenges are a complete judgement of how good a clan actually is...

Agreed...thats why you have to look at all variables...like doing a valuation analysis on a stock or company...past performance is important..but present/future outlook also is vital for a more accurate ranking...its tedious but I think it will serve for a good foundation of where the clans rank

But don't the same clans usually end up on top? Take a look at the Conquers Cup... The teams left are THOTA vs Nemesis, IA vs LoW, and then KORT vs TOFU (Who both have moved on.) Is there really any surprises there? Only shocker is if THOTA were to lose to Nemesis. The only way a clan can really change itself is by recruiting.

Not always true, a clan can definately improve with the members that were already in improving their game as well. Will use BPB as an example, formerly seen as a "social" clan, they now have some of the top players on the site and are in the Clan League Finals. They did this with a few recruits, but alot of it came from the founders and original members of the clan.

Funny you should say that, as the only two founding members of BpB who play anymore are owen and brett, both of whom were disallowed from playing in the CL Finals by their clanmates and are now leaving the clan.

[cpurcell]

I think my clan is great and if I ranked any other clan higher then I'd try to join them.

...So you're saying L4D is #1?

---C

My statement means that I can't see myself in any other clan than I am now. I know and respect the people in my clan and I enjoy playing with them. I'm sure that everyone feels this way about their clan which is why you aren't to place your clan in your rating.

I'm sure that there would be arguments if everyone posted their lists, but at least it'd be honest. These lists are being made up by clan LEADERS. Having that title comes with responsibility and if you care enough to comprise the list at least have the cojónes to be honest about how you see everyone else and accept the consequences. And before anyone goes "Well you're not making a list that might cause conflict", my clan is part of the judged, so I should be able to offer my opinion whether or not I'm doing any judging.

If I would be to rank Nemesis, I certainly wouldn't rank us #1

---C

That is such B.S.(capitalized even!) You totally would rank your clan #1! Look at your sig! It's huge and says that your clan is "where legends are made" There's no harm in thinking your own clan is the best.

Jeeze I think that Nemesis could be the best, at some far off point in time, but right now, we're not. I can't believe that you would say that your clan is #1 when you've been owned in several challenges... I guess you'll have to say they were rigged or something, or the statistics are skewed.

---C

[Bruceswar]

I would post a list here, but as i stated before, im not sure results of challenges are a complete judgement of how good a clan actually is...

Agreed...thats why you have to look at all variables...like doing a valuation analysis on a stock or company...past performance is important..but present/future outlook also is vital for a more accurate ranking...its tedious but I think it will serve for a good foundation of where the clans rank

But don't the same clans usually end up on top? Take a look at the Conquers Cup... The teams left are THOTA vs Nemesis, IA vs LoW, and then KORT vs TOFU (Who both have moved on.) Is there really any surprises there? Only shocker is if THOTA were to lose to Nemesis. The only way a clan can really change itself is by recruiting.

Not always true, a clan can definately improve with the members that were already in improving their game as well. Will use BPB as an example, formerly seen as a "social" clan, they now have some of the top players on the site and are in the Clan League Finals. They did this with a few recruits, but alot of it came from the founders and original members of the clan.

Funny you should say that, as the only two founding members of BpB who play anymore are owen and brett, both of whom were disallowed from playing in the CL Finals by their clanmates and are now leaving the clan.

Well yes players can develop and teams can get better, but in general the best way to change a clan is by recruiting.

[poptartpsycho18]

Jeeze I think that Nemesis could be the best, at some far off point in time, but right now, we're not. I can't believe that you would say that your clan is #1 when you've been owned in several challenges... I guess you'll have to say they were rigged or something, or the statistics are skewed.

---C

Now you're just being nasty; it's completely disloyal to say "Oh yeah that clan is so better than mine" and the fact that you consider winning challenges the mark of a better clan says something about you and it's not something good. I don't understand why you'd have to become rude just because I'd like to think highly of my clan. Did I say my clan was #1? I said that I enjoy where I am and don't want to be anywhere else. People lose challenges, it's something to learn from. Just because a clan loses does not make the any less than any other clan. I'd consider much more than a win/lose ratio when making any clan assessment. Here's a quick one: I'd say that most players in Nemesis were cool but clearly there's one that still needs to mature in many areas. Maybe learn how to decipher sarcasm, or identify the emoticons that show a kidding comment.

This is my final comment since I'm not going to be compiling a list and any arguing is pointless. Good luck all.

[jpeter15]

Well yes players can develop and teams can get better, but in general the best way to change a clan is by recruiting.

Lots of factors go into the strength of a clan through time.

How committed are the players? A clan's best player may have tons of free time one year but be swamped with work the next and can't focus enough. Vice versa, a clan may have an excellent player who doesn't play a ton now but will play more in the future.

Losing players. CC is not for life, players come and go. THOTA has lost a couple of very strong guys in the past but managed to overcome it, not all clans can.

Recruiting players. Like you said, it can make a clan stronger, but occasionally it could change dynamics in a negative way.

Practice. Players can learn new maps which are always coming out, learn the tricks to certain settings, etc.

Chemistry. Having 4 of the best players on CC in a single quad might sound perfect, but there is a lot to be said for chemistry.

There is a lot that can change with clans and many variables factor into success and failure. THOTA shows that it is possible for their to be consistent excellence, but look at the clans ranked 2-10 over the years, or even months. I'll bet things have changed there a lot.


As far as the Power Rankings go, I understand the argument that this poll is mostly for vanity, for the top clans to feel good about themselves. I see more value in it than just that. I see it as a great way to find out about newer clans that I otherwise wouldn't look twice at. I don't have the time to go out and scout them all, but when I see, 'Clan XYZ was ranked #20 last month and now they are #9' I will take notice when I otherwise wouldn't. It also acts as a little cheat sheet to check before you play a clan when a challenge starts and I say to myself, 'ok, we are about to face what many think to be one of the best clans on CC, this will be an opportunity for us'. Ironically, it is also a whole lot easier to find loopholes to go up in rank on this site (farming, playing with low ranked teammates, etc) but it is pretty tough to cheat at your clan's perception among other clan leaders. The clan ranks come under a lot of scrutiny, but the scoring system on the site is rarely challenged (I think, but I don't spend much time on the forums).

Finally, in a perfect world it wouldn't be the case, but in the world we live in, perception is reality.

[pmchugh]

I wouldn't want to go anywhere else no matter what, my clan is the best place for me but that doesn't mean they are the number 1 clan in terms of skill.

These rankings are based on your skill as a team but even if they went on personality your clan wouldn't be anywhere near the top either. You have some great people in your clan, (i <3 ga7) but when we played you, you barely said gg, i think you were the only one who actually posted in the thread and i swear i saw a tumbleweed float past. THOTA then commented pretty much exactly how i feel and to top it off you weren't even much competition.

[trapyoung]

Lots of factors go into the strength of a clan through time.

How committed are the players? A clan's best player may have tons of free time one year but be swamped with work the next and can't focus enough. Vice versa, a clan may have an excellent player who doesn't play a ton now but will play more in the future.

Losing players. CC is not for life, players come and go. THOTA has lost a couple of very strong guys in the past but managed to overcome it, not all clans can.

Recruiting players. Like you said, it can make a clan stronger, but occasionally it could change dynamics in a negative way.

Practice. Players can learn new maps which are always coming out, learn the tricks to certain settings, etc.

Chemistry. Having 4 of the best players on CC in a single quad might sound perfect, but there is a lot to be said for chemistry.

So the factors are Commitment, Losing Players, Recruiting Players, Practice, and Chemistry.

Any easy acronym to remember this is Cutting Little People Really Pisses Peter c'Off

[Dai_atan]

this is taking a long time to come out :p

[MTIceman41]

this is taking a long time to come out :p

Kind of like Ricky Martin and Clay Aiken

[Lubawski]

I'm all for transparency. Here's how I had it:

1 The Horseman of the Apocalypse (THOTA)
2 The Spanking Monkeys (TSM)
3 The Odd Fellows Union (TOFU)
4 Legends of War (LoW)
5 Knights of the Round Table (KORT)
6 Immortal Assassins (IA)
7 Nemesis
8 ++ The Legion ++
9 Bullet Proof Bandits (BPB)
10 Imperial Dragoons (ID)
11 Brethren of the Fat Mermaid (BotFM)
12 Angels of Death (AoD)
13 Agents of Chaos (AoC)
14 Fraternal Order of Exception Drinkers (FOED)
15 Mythology
16 Outlaws & Highwaymen (O&H)
17 Generation 1: The Clan (G1)
18 Memento Mori
19 Black Sheep Squadron (BSS)
20 Legends of the Zone (LotZ)
21 Dynasty
22 Left4Dead (L4D)
23 A Fistful of Sixes
24 De Veroveraars der Lage Landen (DVDLL)
25 Divine Domination (DD)
26 Eternal Empire (EE)
27 Imperial Britain (IB)
28 Devil's Brigade
29 Grim Reapers
30 The Last Warriors
31 Soldiers of War
32 Project Firestorm
33 Death by Comity
34 Gorgonzola Pirates
35 Hell's Messengers
36 Karma Clan

[Chuuuuck]

Sorry this has taken longer than hoped. I wanted to wait a fair amount of time to give everyone a chance to participate that wanted to, at this point I will start getting the numbers together and hopefully have a posted power rankings by tomorrow. Thanks to everyone who sent in their votes.

[Dai_atan]

Sorry this has taken longer than hoped. I wanted to wait a fair amount of time to give everyone a chance to participate that wanted to, at this point I will start getting the numbers together and hopefully have a posted power rankings by tomorrow. Thanks to everyone who sent in their votes.

I assume you're just taking all the different clan votes and then doing the average ranking?