Congrats to CC's New Conqueror Blitz!

[Robinette]

FRick... ok... top 180 people out of 200?

happy?

mnnnn.... well i'm actually #156, so i dunnno...

but so long as we're not sharing the same bus, i'm okay with it...
my bus is a bumpy ride...









I just don't do the easy bus...

[Incandenza]

Just feel like i should clarify my belief on this matter, I could care less if blitzaholic does this to gain points it is his choice how and what he plays. That said it is the fact that he looked at other players in a negative way for using dodgy strategies to get to the top and now is using one himself that bothers me.

Well, are you just taking FC's word for it, or have you actually seen the comment in question? More to the point, like I said, there's different interpretations of what precisely is "dodgy".

[ljex]

Just feel like i should clarify my belief on this matter, I could care less if blitzaholic does this to gain points it is his choice how and what he plays. That said it is the fact that he looked at other players in a negative way for using dodgy strategies to get to the top and now is using one himself that bothers me.

Well, are you just taking FC's word for it, or have you actually seen the comment in question? More to the point, like I said, there's different interpretations of what precisely is "dodgy".

Im talking about him listing other players as farmers in his 20 conquerors thread before even though he knew that they didnt play ?'s to get top. I have no knowledge of the debate between him and fruitcake. Also the use of the term dodgy strategies is based on my beliefs, you dont have to agree with me but it is how i view it.

[Incandenza]

Im talking about him listing other players as farmers in his 20 conquerors thread before even though he knew that they didnt play ?'s to get top. I have no knowledge of the debate between him and fruitcake. Also the use of the term dodgy strategies is based on my beliefs, you dont have to agree with me but it is how i view it.

Currently the only two players that are associated with farming in the first post of that thread are yosevuk (who knows, it was back in 2007) and rabbiton (which I can see both sides of the argument, I respect rabbit a great deal and he's one of the finest player on the site, but he did call himself the noob whisperer). Anything beyond that, you'll have to provide links, I'm not your research assistant.

And if you think it's dodgy, then fine. But if you think it's as dodgy as some of the other methods used to gain the top spot, then you're nuts, and either way it's unfair for you to say that blitz is a hypocrite for not sharing your views. Plus, I'd say it's objectively true that teaming with low ranks in sequential games is far less dodgy than inviting new recruits to freestyle assassin games on Waterloo... It's like you're saying "Blitz is against murder, but he downloads music off the internet! He's a hypocrite!"

[ljex]

Im talking about him listing other players as farmers in his 20 conquerors thread before even though he knew that they didnt play ?'s to get top. I have no knowledge of the debate between him and fruitcake. Also the use of the term dodgy strategies is based on my beliefs, you dont have to agree with me but it is how i view it.

Currently the only two players that are associated with farming in the first post of that thread are yosevuk (who knows, it was back in 2007) and rabbiton (which I can see both sides of the argument, I respect rabbit a great deal and he's one of the finest player on the site, but he did call himself the noob whisperer). Anything beyond that, you'll have to provide links, I'm not your research assistant.

And if you think it's dodgy, then fine. But if you think it's as dodgy as some of the other methods used to gain the top spot, then you're nuts, and either way it's unfair for you to say that blitz is a hypocrite for not sharing your views. Plus, I'd say it's objectively true that teaming with low ranks in sequential games is far less dodgy than inviting new recruits to freestyle assassin games on Waterloo... It's like you're saying "Blitz is against murder, but he downloads music off the internet! He's a hypocrite!"

He used to have more players listed as farmers he removed it about a month ago but my point still stands. For example KOG who got to #1 with fs speed on city mogul was listed as a farmer. How is what blitz is doing any different, basically both players are setting up games they know they are going to win most of the time and that inexperienced players will have no chance of winning.

[Incandenza]

He used to have more players listed as farmers he removed it about a month ago but my point still stands. For example KOG who got to #1 with fs speed on city mogul was listed as a farmer. How is what blitz is doing any different, basically both players are setting up games they know they are going to win most of the time and that inexperienced players will have no chance of winning.

Assuming that's the case, you're being far far too reductive in your thinking. Honestly, that's like saying that murder and downloading music off the internet are basically the same thing, since the person is stealing something that doesn't belong to them...

[ljex]

He used to have more players listed as farmers he removed it about a month ago but my point still stands. For example KOG who got to #1 with fs speed on city mogul was listed as a farmer. How is what blitz is doing any different, basically both players are setting up games they know they are going to win most of the time and that inexperienced players will have no chance of winning.

Assuming that's the case, you're being far far too reductive in your thinking. Honestly, that's like saying that murder and downloading music off the internet are basically the same thing, since the person is stealing something that doesn't belong to them...

please explain how KOG and Blitz are different?

[denominator]

Im talking about him listing other players as farmers in his 20 conquerors thread before even though he knew that they didnt play ?'s to get top. I have no knowledge of the debate between him and fruitcake. Also the use of the term dodgy strategies is based on my beliefs, you dont have to agree with me but it is how i view it.

Currently the only two players that are associated with farming in the first post of that thread are yosevuk (who knows, it was back in 2007) and rabbiton (which I can see both sides of the argument, I respect rabbit a great deal and he's one of the finest player on the site, but he did call himself the noob whisperer). Anything beyond that, you'll have to provide links, I'm not your research assistant.

He used to have more players listed as farmers he removed it about a month ago but my point still stands. For example KOG who got to #1 with fs speed on city mogul was listed as a farmer. How is what blitz is doing any different, basically both players are setting up games they know they are going to win most of the time and that inexperienced players will have no chance of winning.

Unfortunately, that's the way the system works. Everyone on this site has at least one map, with at least one set of settings that they dominate on. We all know this and I know everyone else is thinking of their perfect map and settings right now. There are, however, two critical differences between those of us at the mediocre ranks and those at the upper ranks or that make runs for Conquerer:

1) We play variated games. If you look at any of the Top 20 players, 80% of their recent games are on their perfect settings, and the remaining 20% tend to be team games with their friends or similar settings to their perfect games (ie - New World and Feudal War). To make it to the upper echelon of CC, you have to commit to ONLY playing what you are good at.

2) They are better on the specialist maps than the rest of us. I think it's fair to say that it is much easier to play on maps such as Classic, Canada, USA, and Australia, or other similarly simple maps as opposed to harder maps such as New World, Forbidden City, City Mogul, or Supermax!. By the same token, a player such as myself that tends to play simpler maps will struggle when playing on a complicated against a player like King_Herpes, who tends to play more difficult maps whereas KH will have a much easier time playing myself on my simple maps. A very large part of this second section is simply committing to playing a difficult map long enough to learn it.

The key component that I see in the second section which is so often overlooked is the luck factor. If we take, for example, Robinnette and Blitzaholic and look at their games, we'll notice that Blitzaholic succeeds by removing luck while Robinnette succeeds by capitalizing on it. If you play on a map with set starting points, you can formulate a consistent path to victory where every game you simply need to do the same thing over and over again. Playing a map with a "classic" style to it means seeing the whole map and capitalizing on opportunities.

I am confident that it is impossible to reach Conquerer without some sort of points manipulation. You can only make it so high before one loss costs you more than you can gain even with 75%+ winning percentage, which means you have to remove as much randomness as possible from the equation. So in the end it always comes down to the person making the run deciding how much point manipulation they can morally handle. Obviously, this is where every person differs, and those people who have zero tolerance for any sort of point manipulation will always start a thread like this when a run is made. Comparatively, I think Blitzy is doing rather well on the point manipulation front, but playing as he is still is not something I well ever do.

Like army of nobunaga said above, it is the system at fault, not the player. I love CC's point system with rewards for beating higher ranked players and penalties for beating lower ranks, but this is the way we have to deal with it. I'll always join a couple of games against the player(s) making runs for the top (assuming they start public games that I can join), as I usually lose <10 points and can generally learn how they play just by watching.

[Incandenza]

please explain how KOG and Blitz are different?

Well, they were playing COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TYPES OF GAMES, for crying out loud. And besides, if blitz recanted what he said, as you've noted, then why on god's green earth are you still holding him to it? Are you the one, the only human being ever who's never said something in haste or in error? Fucksake, man, has your disdain for blitz completely blinded you to common sense?

[army of nobunaga]

He's not starting team games and then abusing the invite system to ensure he's facing a disorganized team. He's not waiting for a disorganized team to set up a freestyle game and then joining en masse with real-life friends. He's not perma-sitting other accounts. He's not abusing the foe system.

so people do these things? no way... If you really thought so you would be supporting a point tweaking... lol.


REally... you mean people ranked ahead of me do this stuff? Im shocked.


Im shocked.

[Incandenza]

He's not starting team games and then abusing the invite system to ensure he's facing a disorganized team. He's not waiting for a disorganized team to set up a freestyle game and then joining en masse with real-life friends. He's not perma-sitting other accounts. He's not abusing the foe system.

so people do these things? no way... If you really thought so you would be supporting a point tweaking... lol.


REally... you mean people ranked ahead of me do this stuff? Im shocked.


Im shocked.

A point tweaking, perhaps. Not the horrific, poorly-thought-out overhaul you're proposed. And yes, people have done and are still doing these things. You know how I deal with it? By simply not giving a shit and going about my life and knowing that if they ever venture onto my CC turf I'll beat them soundly.

[Robinette]

...If we take, for example, Robinette and Blitzaholic and look at their games, we'll notice that Blitzaholic succeeds by removing luck while Robinette succeeds by capitalizing on it....

I like this statement,,, it's all so simple when you say it that way.

[Incandenza]

...If we take, for example, Robinette and Blitzaholic and look at their games, we'll notice that Blitzaholic succeeds by removing luck while Robinette succeeds by capitalizing on it....

I like this statement,,, it's all so simple when you say it that way.

Actually, we let you win because we know that you own and are proficient with a variety of firearms.

[Bruceswar]

And yes, people have done and are still doing these things. You know how I deal with it? By simply not giving a shit and going about my life and knowing that if they ever venture onto my CC turf I'll beat them soundly.

I do not care what anybody does usually, but we must remember the life blood of CC is the members it has. At this stage in CC's life it needs as much fresh blood as possible. Many of the vets have already retired, and many more likely will soon. With all these so called "farming" practices out there, many players get left with a very sour taste in their mouth and never return. We will never know how many of those would have stayed if: "There was better instructions on which settings / maps to avoid" and "If there was a way to make these tactics less profitable to no profit at all" for the farmers. I will not get into what is farming and who has done it or not as nobody will ever fully agree on it. What I will say is that anything that turns away customers is always bad for business. I wonder how many people never returned after playing Circus Maximus for the first map they ever played. Anyhow that is for another debate.

[ljex]

please explain how KOG and Blitz are different?

Well, they were playing COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TYPES OF GAMES, for crying out loud. And besides, if blitz recanted what he said, as you've noted, then why on god's green earth are you still holding him to it? Are you the one, the only human being ever who's never said something in haste or in error? Fucksake, man, has your disdain for blitz completely blinded you to common sense?

I dont disdain blitz at all...also i cant think of it as a hasty decision if he left it there for months. If he makes conqueror i will congratulate him and he is a very skilled player who deserves it. I just dont like the fact that he criticized other players for creating games designed for low rankers but then does it himself

[Crazyirishman]

denominator said in essence the same thing as me just better put/more articulate

[billy07]

So all you kids that don't like Blitz's methods or want to prevent a particular player from getting to the top, do what I did... I joined against them and took more away in points than I would ever in a thread. Gather your best team and play the man on Pelop War and beat 'em so he doesn't get to the top, don't bitch about it. Sometimes I'd lose but more times than not I would win-- that's where you should fight the fight, not in some bullshit jealousy thread. But again for 99% of you, you'd get your asses handed to you so you'd rather hide behind your posts instead of playing.

I did that and tried inviting some of the people in this thread to play on my team against Blitz. Unsurprisingly, most of them were on someone's foe list and therefore cannot join the game.

You should know who has you on ignore..... politely pm them and say wat's up. If they give you a valid reason for having you on ignore, then it's their prerogative, if not then they're a bitch and you've still won without playing them. Not a valid reason, post in callouts or in here... state your point. You'll get a game-- Blitz is a reasonable fella, if one of his teammates has you on ignore, he'll talk to 'em and most likely get you the game you want.

didn't you put my old team mate waynemgough on ignore for consistantly beating you when you were conquerer (by dubious means). you can just ignore this if you like

[Incandenza]

please explain how KOG and Blitz are different?

Well, they were playing COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TYPES OF GAMES, for crying out loud. And besides, if blitz recanted what he said, as you've noted, then why on god's green earth are you still holding him to it? Are you the one, the only human being ever who's never said something in haste or in error? Fucksake, man, has your disdain for blitz completely blinded you to common sense?

I dont disdain blitz at all...also i cant think of it as a hasty decision if he left it there for months. If he makes conqueror i will congratulate him and he is a very skilled player who deserves it. I just dont like the fact that he criticized other players for creating games designed for low rankers but then does it himself

Well, it may not have been hasty, but you seem unwilling to accept that he eventually recanted, which seems like an important point here. Besides, what exactly did blitz say? If you're going to condemn him, surely you've gone back and read the relevant text.

Also, what exactly is a game designed for low rankers? Any public team game? Any public 1v1 game? Any public freestyle game?

[ljex]

please explain how KOG and Blitz are different?

Well, they were playing COMPLETELY DIFFERENT TYPES OF GAMES, for crying out loud. And besides, if blitz recanted what he said, as you've noted, then why on god's green earth are you still holding him to it? Are you the one, the only human being ever who's never said something in haste or in error? Fucksake, man, has your disdain for blitz completely blinded you to common sense?

I dont disdain blitz at all...also i cant think of it as a hasty decision if he left it there for months. If he makes conqueror i will congratulate him and he is a very skilled player who deserves it. I just dont like the fact that he criticized other players for creating games designed for low rankers but then does it himself

Well, it may not have been hasty, but you seem unwilling to accept that he eventually recanted, which seems like an important point here. Besides, what exactly did blitz say? If you're going to condemn him, surely you've gone back and read the relevant text.

Also, what exactly is a game designed for low rankers? Any public team game? Any public 1v1 game? Any public freestyle game?

This would be a game designed for low rankers

Peloponnesian War Brigadier455 +2045 346 from 390(89%) 936 Warmonger (89%)50 Point Hoarder (0.513)

Pelow war quads manual for blitzaholic

You can think what you want, this will be my last post on the matter

[Incandenza]

You know, if you didn't want to actually defend your various statements, there are considerably more graceful ways to bow out of the conversation. Kinda reminds me of a classic Simpsons bit:

"Why did you think a big balloon would stop him?"
"Shut up, that's why!"

[jleonnn]

[ljex]

You know, if you didn't want to actually defend your various statements, there are considerably more graceful ways to bow out of the conversation. Kinda reminds me of a classic Simpsons bit:

"Why did you think a big balloon would stop him?"
"Shut up, that's why!"

You can call me a hypocrite or whatever for posting again but i have come to the conclusion that this is going no where, you are not going to change your mind and neither am i so what is the point in us arguing?

[eddie2]

why bow out ljex you are raising a valued point that happens all the time on cc and needs to be sorted out. players that have


double standards


sorry was there not a saying

whats good for the goose is good for the gander

this is what ljex is saying in plane english

don't slag players of for something then do it yourself or defend a player you like for somthing you slag others off for


also the title of this thread needs to be changed because


this is not blitzs team does he use them for tournements no.

[Fruitcake]

This thread is about hypocrisy, simple.

Seeing as those of you really want this proved, here it is....prepare yourselves.

yes, i have taught many others on the site, but i do not have a guy join like 20 of my games against me and lose them all, then team with that same person in 20 more when they are at 300 score, and win them all, that is abuse. and many can manipulate this that way, thats all.

what i am saying is the relative rank is flawed and should not be implemented, if it is, then many more will exploit ways of abuse to manipulate their ranks higher then what they are.

you wanted suggestions and more talking in your thread, there you go, I added my ideas and I think it is a poor one to implement, but no scoring system is going to be perfect.

no need to go on the defensive there fruit, but guilt does that to people I reckon. it's merely an observation and was wondering why you wanted this added to the site so eagerly, now I know, and now all who reads this knows.

Now let's take the first piece I have bolded and coloured:

And before anyone starts further splitting of hairs, which is Blitz's usual way of obstifucation. As I responded at the time, Blitz was way out with his scores.

But notwithstanding this, the key point is his preaching about beating someone then having them join....sooooo

Game 6457602
Game 6449638
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Game 6237812
Game 6228237
Game 6226527
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Game 6192014
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Game 6186883
Game 6175900
Game 6175898
Game 6175880
Game 6154608
Game 6150316
Game 6015089
Game 6014861

and so on and so on...do the search yourselves. The player Jobiwan then switches position and becomes a team mate of Blitz....exactly the thing he was casting accusations of in my direction!

Now I am not denigrating this approach, far from it, I have always said openly, this is a way of balancing out the system. What I am seriously saying is that if you preach from a position, then at least have the decency to withdraw that position, in public. Blitz has singularly failed to do this, and even while this thread has continued he has not had the decency to adjust his original position.

[joecoolfrog]

i like drama... but someone please explain to me what blitz is doing that 200 other top players dont? At least he doesnt play nothing but privates down in freestyle trap games 1vs1... which to me is lower than scum.

Hey...

I don't do any of that crap, and i'm inside that top 200, and i know a few others on the 1st page too...

OR

did you mean that about 200 of the 1st page do that crap, leaving about 50 who don't?

Absolutely Robin , there are plenty of good players in the top 200 who have never farmed or used dubious tactics . I think at a certain point ( perhaps 4000+ ) it is near impossible to maintain score without some form of manipulation or severe specialisation, but that only equates to a handful of players. I remember that when comic was briefly Conqueror I asked him why he didnt farm some points to shore up his position, he wasnt interested because his motivation was beating good players rather than simply gaining points from bad ones. If the opposite applies and gaining points is ones great motivation then fair enough , let them enjoy what they enjoy