Nordic Countries [Quenched]

by **porkenbeans** on Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:19 pm

Better ?

Click image to enlarge.

by **natty dread** on Mon Apr 05, 2010 10:39 pm

Eh, not really the style I was going for... I don't think messing with the overall hue of the map image is the answer here.

I have to get some sleep, but I'll post an update tomorrow, after I finish up some details.

Good night everyone.

by **MarshalNey** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:12 am

I have to say that I'm fairly livid at the treatment some Foundry veterans have given this thread recently.

C'mon guy and gals, you're supposed to be setting an example, not imperiously demanding changes at the last minute. It's disrespectful and arrogant to talk about graphics with impunity when:

a) The topic is inherently subjective. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

b) Perfection is impossible. The map already has the graphics stamp, so like it or not, it has already met or exceeded the minimum Foundry standard. What that means is up to interpretation- if you think that the stamp means that the Foundry standard has become biased, demeaned, chaotic, none of the above, etc., well... make a complaint to Mr. Benn or some other mod. But don't take it out on this map, where Natty has put in a great deal of time and attention into addressing all concens up to this point.

c) The mapmaker himself has a clear vision of the 'look' that he's trying to acheive; any 'demands' that run counter to this look are not helping, but merely asking for a do-over on the whole graphical concept of the map. This is not good feedback at this point. If one really wants to help, one should argue to the question- which in the Final Forge is, "What tweaks can improve/strengthen the current graphical style displayed in this map?"

d) The map has spent a great deal of time in the Graphics Workshop and most of you haven't posted a single comment until now.

mibi wrote:Some map maker who doesn't have a quenched map slides through to final forge because no one either gives a shit about the map...

Ignoring the rudeness, I feel compelled to ask, "Who is letting the map 'slide' through to the Final Forge here?" Assuming that mibi is correct, then the answer must be a group that includes himself!
If Foundry veterans don't respect the process, what's the point of this whole system? Stop trolling the Final Forge, and start looking at maps when their relevant stamp is up for debate.

Now this unhappiness isn't really directed at the individuals who have given their suggestions with grace and supportive insight- the killing .44, porkenbeans, et. al.

But even so, it would be nice if someone acknowledged the faux pas of commenting on major graphics issues at such a late stage. Something like, "Sorry to comment so late," might be nice. Instead, I've seen the Foundry at its worst... I hope.

by **porkenbeans** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:31 am

MN,
Everything that you just said has been said before. I know because, I have said it myself, on more than one occasion. The disrespectful treatment that you are witnessing here, is mild in comparison to what I have gone through. My advice to you is, Do NOT speak up TOO loudly, or you may find yourself on vacation. -Again, ...I speak from experience.

by **Incandenza** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 1:43 am

MarshalNey wrote:But even so, it would be nice if someone acknowledged the faux pas of commenting on major graphics issues at such a late stage. Something like, "Sorry to comment so late," might be nice. Instead, I've seen the Foundry at its worst... I hope.

In a way you're right, in that many of these graphical complaints could have been raised earlier. However, they have been raised, and it would be far from the first time that a new mapmaker has had to undertake a major graphics overhaul at this stage of the game. Being in the Forge has a way of drawing attention to a map that, in some eyes, does not meet the standards for being a step away from live play. And much of what's being requested here is pretty low-intensity stuff compared to what Tisha underwent with Puget Sound or Elijah with Civil War.

The thing is, this is the foundry at its best: an absolute unwillingness to compromise quality. While that quality may be in the eyes of the beholder, it's the rare foundrarian that's willing to let shit slide because fixing it would be too difficult.

by **mpxy** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:58 am

Well, if u prefer cold colors, it's ok. That's ur decision anyway and I respect. However there's another thing about the color issue. Don't know if that was mentioned before but, the colors of the parts within the countries (for instance, Finnish Lapland and South Finland) look too similar. It's really hard to distinguish the parts from each other since they all look like same color. Making small modifications on the color tones may help.

by **RjBeals** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:31 am

MarshalNey wrote:I have to say that I'm fairly livid at the treatment some Foundry veterans have given this thread recently.

I only comment cause I like the kid and think he has the drive to make some great maps. The map looks good now, but it could look better. We're not talking National Geographic, were talking by Conquer Club standards. Thats all. Some comments seem insensitive, but they are true. It's like Simon Cowell. He says what everybody thinks.

by **natty dread** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:49 am

Ok, I was kinda afraid of this happening.

Guys, I appreciate the support and all, but don't worry about it. I can take it... it's another day in a mapmaker's life.

Besides, I haven't been all that civil towards mibi either, for which I apologize. I've had very stressful few days, due to some serious rl shit. But mibi is mibi, even though he can be insulting, arrogant and hurtful at times, he means well... he acts the way he does because he cares. He pushes us to strive for excellence, for which I'm grateful.

As for the map, the.killing.44 has been kind enough to help me with the process of bringing the map up to standards. I will be making some final modifications today and then will be posting an updated version which hopefully satisfies everyone.

by **natty dread** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:36 pm

Ok... well I still have a few final adjustments to do but in the meantime I thought I'd show you what I've got so far.

Click image to enlarge.

by **erkern** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 12:50 pm

hmmm...

I just realized I'm never going to be a mapmaker.

That said: The latest changes are positive, Natty. The added crispiness is excellent. I like the map even more, and looking even more to try it out.

by **natty dread** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 5:05 pm

Thanks erkern... We mapmakers are a masochistic breed...

Also, I'd like to take this opportunity to encourage all of you guys who have come to comment my map on MrBenn's request, to browse the foundry and see if there are any other maps that you find interesting. There are many, many other very interesting projects in the foundry at the moment, and the mapmakers are always looking for feedback on their work, be it positive or negative. If the amount of threads seems overwhelming to you, then perhaps you would also like to check out the newsletter's Foundry section, which has brief previews of current maps in each issue.

Anyway, back to my map, I have tried to combat the "blurrines" some more, adjusting some bevels, tweaking the borders some more, and here is what I have now:

Click image to enlarge.

by **RjBeals** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 6:58 pm

much better.

by **natty dread** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:08 pm

Thanks beals. I'm glad you like it.

Well, I also needed to fix the glacier - the new borders didn't really fit on the glacier, so here's my solution...

Click image to enlarge.

by **porkenbeans** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:28 pm

Looking much better.

Have you considered terminating the sea routes at the edge of the territs ? It is a small tweak, but I think they would look better. Maybe even reduce the opacity on them just a hair. Either way, Nice job, hope to play it soon.

by **natty dread** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 7:33 pm

porkenbeans wrote:Looking much better.
Have you considered terminating the sea routes at the edge of the territs ?

See page 39. And thanks.

by **natty dread** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:23 pm

Ok well, it's time to make this an official update againm which means it gets a new version number.

Man... version 58. What's the record anyway? And if you also count the versions between numbers... well, the first page alone had some 75 versions when I counted. And it doesn't even have all of them, counting the ones that have only been posted at the end of the thread, I'd say I have done something like a 100 versions of this map...

So anyway, this is version 58,
large image:

Click image to enlarge.

and small image:

And even though the XML hasn't changed, here's XML version 7, the latest, if you want to check out the coordinates, go ahead, they're perfect.

XML: http://h1.ripway.com/ndread/nordic_xml_7.xml

by **jpcloet** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:38 pm

natty_dread wrote:
I like a lot of the changes and I'm glad you changed the font a while back.

I see a little bit of pixelation, but nothing major.

Thanks, I appreciate your feedback.

Can you elaborate on the pixelation? I can try doing something about it.

jpcloet wrote:Can I suggest you add another finer layer and experiment a bit with additional texture layers? Find something you absolutely love.

Hmm, it may prove problematic. I've tried this in the past, and usually two texture layers on top of each other just look messy. But I might give it a shot.

The east end along the dark grey is a little bit and the finger like island on the south.

by **natty dread** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 8:44 pm

The east end along the dark grey is a little bit and the finger like island on the south.

Finger like island... do you mean gotland? If so... do you mean the area covered by the army circle, which will be covered by army numbers?

As for the other... I'm sorry, I'm not quite sure what you mean.

If it's not too much trouble, could you perhaps mark the areas that bother you the most on the map by red mspaint doodles?

by **snufkin** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:23 pm

Some of the edges of the playable land on the minimap have what looks like minor pixelation or a slightly jagged look.. perhaps it can be gently smoothed out in a couple of places.

by **natty dread** on Tue Apr 06, 2010 9:27 pm

Agree on the minimap. Will look into it.

by **Ellemann** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:17 am

a) mapmaker cannot just fudge bonus values and other gameplay elements based on which area is strongest in real world, if it will disturb the gameplay balance. A map is first and foremost for playing, not material for school classes.

b) And for that matter, as I said, I live in one of the Nordic countries, and have visited all but one of them. So I think I can with some authority say that the map reflects the Nordic countries of today as accurately as is possible within a CC map.

// nicely put but extremely contradictory

by **natty dread** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 7:36 am

Perhaps you need to read it again, carefully.

by **natty dread** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:17 am

Fixed pixelation & minimap.

Click image to enlarge.

by **jpcloet** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 11:59 am

The finger part of Smaland.

by **natty dread** on Wed Apr 07, 2010 12:13 pm

Yes, I figured that out. It should be fixed now... (see my last post).

Oh, and ripway suddenly closed my account for no apparent reason. So here's the XML re-hosted on fileden:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2010/2/7/2 ... _xml_7.xml

Nordic Countries [Quenched]

Re: Nordic Countries <v.57c> p1,46 [Gp,G] - XML ready.

Re: Nordic Countries <v.57c> p1,46 [Gp,G] - XML ready.

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Re: Nordic Countries <v.57c> p1,46 [Gp,G] - XML ready.

Re: Nordic Countries <v.57c> p1,46 [Gp,G] - XML ready.

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Re: Nordic Countries <v.57c> p1,46 [Gp,G] - XML ready.

Re: Nordic Countries <v.58> p1,48 [Gp,G] - XML done, let's party

Re: Nordic Countries <v.58> p1,48 [Gp,G] - XML done, let's party

Re: Nordic Countries <v.58> p1,48 [Gp,G] - XML done, let's party

Re: Nordic Countries <v.58> p1,48 [Gp,G] - XML done, let's party

Re: Nordic Countries <v.58> p1,48 [Gp,G] - XML done, let's party

Re: Nordic Countries <v.58> p1,48 [Gp,G] - XML done, let's party

Re: Nordic Countries <v.58> p1,48 [Gp,G] - XML done, let's party

Re: Nordic Countries <v.58> p1,48 [Gp,G] - XML done, let's party

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