Clandemonium [GP,GX,XML,BETA]

[denominator]

How about making it so that you can attack drop points only through the pinnacle? Kinda like poland-type gameplay.

Damn, you beat me to that.

Make it so that it's a race to the pinnacle. The only way to get eliminations is by bombarding the drop points from the pinnacle, like WWII Poland or Arm's Race, or, I suppose it is possible to win with nuclear spoils.

I think all the other territories should work as regular territories with regular bonuses, except the drop points and the pinnacle. Makes it so that you can pin someone down before eliminating them, and will stop the build-and-kill method from Feudal War.

[Mr_Adams]

I dislike that game style. In my opinion, it give the pinnacle to much power, and creates a circular game play, like circus maximus. Without cards, it would develop a stalemate.

[happy2seeyou]

Does Blitz get a medal for just thinking of the idea of the map while someone else actually makes it?!?!?

Coordinating and designing the gameplay of a map is just as important as making the graphics.

It is a common procedure in the Foundry, where mapmakers who have no talent in graphics or just for some other reason wish to hand the graphic design to someone else, design the gameplay of the map while another person does the graphics. Many good maps have been made by teams of 2 mapmakers.

There's much more to making a map than just drawing pretty pictures, you know.

Anyway, could we please keep this whining about who gets what medal out of the thread and concentrate on the gameplay of the map?

heheh lighten up a tad natty Hapitu is just playing a coy, teasing game with blitz in order to get him into the sack... she's a sexual predator!

Don't let out my secrets.

And in reference to natts, does that mean all the people that come into the map threads and tell the "person that had a thought of a map" how the game play should be gets a medal as well? Since that is where the majority of the ideas seem to come from.

[natty dread]

And in reference to natts, does that mean all the people that come into the map threads and tell the "person that had a thought of a map" how the game play should be gets a medal as well?

No.

[Blitzaholic]

Does Blitz get a medal for just thinking of the idea of the map while someone else actually makes it?!?!?

Coordinating and designing the gameplay of a map is just as important as making the graphics.

It is a common procedure in the Foundry, where mapmakers who have no talent in graphics or just for some other reason wish to hand the graphic design to someone else, design the gameplay of the map while another person does the graphics. Many good maps have been made by teams of 2 mapmakers.

There's much more to making a map than just drawing pretty pictures, you know.

Anyway, could we please keep this whining about who gets what medal out of the thread and concentrate on the gameplay of the map?

heheh lighten up a tad natty Hapitu is just playing a coy, teasing game with blitz in order to get him into the sack... she's a sexual predator!

Don't let out my secrets.

And in reference to natts, does that mean all the people that come into the map threads and tell the "person that had a thought of a map" how the game play should be gets a medal as well? Since that is where the majority of the ideas seem to come from.

court, what are you bitter about?

this is very time consuming. if you are mad because your clan is not on the map, that is not my fault, I got a pm from fruitcake who said your clan was not interested.

[Blitzaholic]

I really like the concept and i am impressed by the very steady speed at which it is being improved graphically (the image needs more polish and depth at the moment though). Also your openness to change and opinion is commendable... i think maybe just one killer novelty could be nice.... maybe based on having a territory in each Clan bonus area = a collective bonus
(call it the 'Clan Cup' - each territory named something along clan lines eg. 'The Monki Span Cup'' territory.)

Perhaps even make it so if any clan has 3 territories + all Portals then you win the game ... Just thinking out-loud but perhaps somehow work into the map a means of victory in the Clan theme. Giving some kind of a chronological step process to victory based on 'Clan ranking' or even 'Clan Ladder' for example (within the dynamics of the map not base on or referencing ranking outside of the game)

anyway keep going, you are doing excellently so far!

thanks a lot jimbo.

Right now, each clan only borders 2 other clans, and this is what makes the map so circular, and why people complain it plays like 8 thoughts.

To make the map less circular and "8 thoughts" like:

I don't think it would be bad if there were a couple places where 3 clans border each other. This could then be balanced by other means, for example, having the clans that have 3 neighbours a higher bonus, or easier access to portal, or something like that.

For example, you could move the Myth castle to the left a bit so that Dragoons, Tofu & Empire all border each other thru the myth castle.

Also that unnamed clan in the top left corner, could border Land of LOW in addition to Legends. By extending the lower edge to the right a bit.

hmmm, you do not like the lay out like it is natty? seems pretty balanced. I guess you can chat with griff on this one where he is designing it. I will remain. I need to see a pic of it to know better. More of a visual learner myself.

[natty dread]

I'm just saying, a layout where some clans would border more than 2 other clans, would bring a more dynamic gameplay.

[jpcloet]

Agreed, clans should be in a position to battle more clans. An open space like Supermax seems more like a component that could help.

[Blitzaholic]

I agree with barterer2002. Who is doing the XML? At least give them credit by naming them
I realise you're desperate for another medal but which is more important - getting a medal or making a decent map?

chip, when we get to the xml , we will for sure have that players name of the map. We are NOT there yet. We are trying to make a decent map, geez. It is freaking hard. We cannot please everyone.

[grifftron]

One of the possibilities you could do for gameplay would make it kind of a race to the center type of thing. As in each clan's goal is to move forward and grab the pinnacle. To do that it would need to be something worth having. Right now it can attack all the drop spots which is worth something but doesn't necessarily make it a race in there, what if, however, the pinnacle could attack every other tert but reset to N10 each turn. You'd have to go in with enough to knock out a bunch of the opposition yet wouldn't want to leave too many there as you'd lose them next turn, however you'd want to leave enough so that your opposition didn't just take it from you instead. Team play could be interesting as well.

Great ideas that just came out for game play.

1) Making Pinnacle reset to N10 (or N7) each turn
2) Drop points can only be attacked by Pinnacle
3) trying to connect more lands together, if others think this is a good idea, im sure the 14 lands could easily be connected in the middle there connecting 3 clans together instead of 2... but i am afraid this would cause unbalance as their are 10 drop points, not 9. We do have the portals already that connect all clans.
4) and a supermax like battle field.. maybe we could use NM land as something like this?

and all other thoughts given, please give more input on these and what you would like to see, we have to look into these and see what is the best for this map and of course what is fair.

oh ya. Lay off on Blitz, he has been working his butt off for this map.

-griff

[happy2seeyou]

court, what are you bitter about?

this is very time consuming. if you are mad because your clan is not on the map, that is not my fault, I got a pm from fruitcake who said your clan was not interested.

I'm not bitter, you're not getting the joke

[Mr_Adams]

1) Making Pinnacle reset to N10 (or N7) each turn
2) Drop points can only be attacked by Pinnacle
3) trying to connect more lands together, if others think this is a good idea, im sure the 14 lands could easily be connected in the middle there connecting 3 clans together instead of 2... but i am afraid this would cause unbalance as their are 10 drop points, not 9. We do have the portals already that connect all clans.
4) and a supermax like battle field.. maybe we could use NM land as something like this?
-griff

Sounds like WWII Poland/Arms Race game to me. Is that your goal? If it is, it will end up being very much split up still, with people grouping around their auto-drop points.

[natty dread]

trying to connect more lands together, if others think this is a good idea, im sure the 14 lands could easily be connected in the middle there connecting 3 clans together instead of 2... but i am afraid this would cause unbalance as their are 10 drop points, not 9. We do have the portals already that connect all clans.

Don't worry about the imbalance. It can be balanced by other factors, like having easier access to portals for clans that have more neighbours. Or more territories, or less neutrals. Something like that.

The main point is, all of the starting areas do not need to be identical.

[barterer2002]

oh ya. Lay off on Blitz, he has been working his butt off for this map.

-griff

You misunderstand me here. As I stated, I do not minimize Blitz's contributions to this map or to the site in general. I know full well that when Blitz atarts something he throws himself behind it with full force. I merely try to head off a potential issue down the way.

[Blitzaholic]

One of the possibilities you could do for gameplay would make it kind of a race to the center type of thing. As in each clan's goal is to move forward and grab the pinnacle. To do that it would need to be something worth having. Right now it can attack all the drop spots which is worth something but doesn't necessarily make it a race in there, what if, however, the pinnacle could attack every other tert but reset to N10 each turn. You'd have to go in with enough to knock out a bunch of the opposition yet wouldn't want to leave too many there as you'd lose them next turn, however you'd want to leave enough so that your opposition didn't just take it from you instead. Team play could be interesting as well.

Great ideas that just came out for game play.

1) Making Pinnacle reset to N10 (or N7) each turn
2) Drop points can only be attacked by Pinnacle
3) trying to connect more lands together, if others think this is a good idea, im sure the 14 lands could easily be connected in the middle there connecting 3 clans together instead of 2... but i am afraid this would cause unbalance as their are 10 drop points, not 9. We do have the portals already that connect all clans.
4) and a supermax like battle field.. maybe we could use NM land as something like this?

and all other thoughts given, please give more input on these and what you would like to see, we have to look into these and see what is the best for this map and of course what is fair.

oh ya. Lay off on Blitz, he has been working his butt off for this map.

-griff

ok, here is my input griff, we could try to implement 1, 2, and 3, not sure about 4 yet, so hold off on that for now. I need to think more about that. I have some ideas how we may be able to balance the 3 issue.



I will send you a pm and see what you think, ok m8?

[grifftron]

Ok here are some changes i made on the map (in the key actually) Lets see what others think

1. Only Pinnacle can attack drop points
2. Pinnacle will reset to 7 neutral after each players turn

As for connecting 3 or more clan territories together, we would have to take away some castles i am guessing right natty? This is what i understand anyways... because the castle would be the 1 thing keeping the clan territories apart right? Let me know more input on this one. We don't really want to go with less then 20 clans on the map as all 20 have agreed to be on the map already. Maybe there is a different way to do this? But as i said before, portals do connect to other clans and this does make the game play of this map different from any other.

-griff

[natty dread]

As for connecting 3 or more clan territories together, we would have to take away some castles i am guessing right natty? This is what i understand anyways...

Search back on the thread a page or two, I wrote a post about how to accomplish this. No castles will need to be removed, in fact you may have to add one...

Actually, I just found the post, I'll just quote it here:

For example, you could move the Myth castle to the left a bit so that Dragoons, Tofu & Empire all border each other thru the myth castle.

Also that unnamed clan in the top left corner, could border Land of LOW in addition to Legends. By extending the lower edge to the right a bit.

[grifftron]

PM sent natty.

[Finsfleet]

I have another suggestion.

Lets say you are playing quads on this map. I presume this is how this map will be played most of the time.

What should you do? Go for the castle, go for the pinnacle, or wait for the other team to make the first move? I don`t think many would go for the castle. You would lose too much troops by killing 7 neutrals and become too vulnerable to the other team, especially if there is no fog on the map and the other players know exactly what you did. So, I guess you somehow have to balance the things. There are two ways you can do this. One is to reduce the risk by lowering the number of neutrals on the castle, but that is too simple for my taste. The other thing that you can do is increase the bonus you get for the castle. Even better, you can add bonus for each castle + the teritory you hold in adjacent clan region. E.g., if you hold AOC, 3 regions in Land of Low and 5 regions in Thota, you get 8 bonuses. To make the things more interesting, maybe you can add additional bonus if you hold the castle, plus the territory with the same number in adjacent clan regions. Eg if you hold AOC, Land of Low 3 and 5 and Thota 5, you get 1 for LoW3, 1 for LoW5, 1 for Thota5 and 3 for Low5+Thota5.

Just my opinion, of course.

[grifftron]

I have another suggestion.

Lets say you are playing quads on this map. I presume this is how this map will be played most of the time.

What should you do? Go for the castle, go for the pinnacle, or wait for the other team to make the first move? I don`t think many would go for the castle. You would lose too much troops by killing 7 neutrals and become too vulnerable to the other team, especially if there is no fog on the map and the other players know exactly what you did. So, I guess you somehow have to balance the things. There are two ways you can do this. One is to reduce the risk by lowering the number of neutrals on the castle, but that is too simple for my taste. The other thing that you can do is increase the bonus you get for the castle. Even better, you can add bonus for each castle + the teritory you hold in adjacent clan region. E.g., if you hold AOC, 3 regions in Land of Low and 5 regions in Thota, you get 8 bonuses. To make the things more interesting, maybe you can add additional bonus if you hold the castle, plus the territory with the same number in adjacent clan regions. Eg if you hold AOC, Land of Low 3 and 5 and Thota 5, you get 1 for LoW3, 1 for LoW5, 1 for Thota5 and 3 for Low5+Thota5.

Just my opinion, of course.

Finsfleet that is a good idea, we will think on it and get back to you. But for now i change the key a bit to go with some other suggestions that were made earlier

Click image to enlarge.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4066/434 ... bba5_o.jpg

-griff

[Blitzaholic]

Continue to work on map for approval or give up?

Poll ended at Mon Feb 08, 2010 11:43 am

Yes, continue to work on it for approval, I am excited to play it.
93
75%

No, this map is a poor idea do not waste any more of your precious time.
31
25%


Total votes : 124



looks like 75% are in favor for it. Thx for all who voted.

[denominator]

Finsfleet that is a good idea, we will think on it and get back to you. But for now i change the key a bit to go with some other suggestions that were made earlier

Click image to enlarge.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4066/434 ... bba5_o.jpg

-griff

This is the most that I've liked this map yet.

I think you need to add some sort of one-way attack marker from the drop points out. As it stands now, it appears that you are able to attack the drop points from regular territories on the map, but have to carefully read the legend to discover that it is simply not the case.

Secondly, is the Portal to Drop Point assault an "attack and conquer" or is it a "bombard"? It will make a huge difference in gameplay. If it is bombard only it means that you won't be able to eliminate a player solely by taking the pinnacle once they have conquered a territory.

Finally, and this is just a little grammatical pet peeve of mine - I would much rather see "No Man's Land" in the legend than NM.

[natty dread]

I would much rather see "No Man's Land" in the legend than NM.

I agree. You have the room, use it.

[iancanton]

Continue to work on map for approval or give up?

Poll ended at Mon 2010 Feb 08 16:43

Yes, continue to work on it for approval, I am excited to play it. ... 93 ... 75%
No, this map is a poor idea do not waste any more of your precious time. ... 31 ... 25%

Total votes : ... 124

ian.

[jefjef]

Portals should be easier to take than castles. To even make em useful you have to go thru 14. A bit high imo.