Americans

areon · Post by **areon** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 12:48 am

Correct it wasn't, none of that was done to benefit the people or find a social balance. Marx said it would probably be violent because he saw no alternative but that doesn't mean it had to be that cruel. Stalin's paranoia showed how little he trusted his top men, let alone his own people. The Russians suffered greatly under Stalin well before WWII.

flashleg8 · Post by **flashleg8** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:02 am

areon wrote:Correct it wasn't, none of that was done to benefit the people or find a social balance. Marx said it would probably be violent because he saw no alternative but that doesn't mean it had to be that cruel. Stalin's paranoia showed how little he trusted his top men, let alone his own people. The Russians suffered greatly under Stalin well before WWII.

I agree, at best Stalins Russia was state-capitalism at worst a dictatorship. He continued to implement some socialist principles but his police state does not reflect the true communist ideal.

Jgood · Post by **Jgood** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:24 am

yes, and cuba is doing very well, after your picture contributed to the killings of thousands. But you can blame the US embargo, really that works. :lol:

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 4:35 am

BlueOctober, you know appeasement saved our asses? If we attack Hitler when he took Czech we would not have stood a chance as we were not ready. In 1938-1939 we boosted our military expenditure and made ourselves ready for war, so that when he took Poland we declared and could actually fight him. Btw, the UK would never have been German as we won the Battle of Britain, and Russia or not, Germany would never have defeated the Royal Navy.

Also, the only reason the Russians were suprised that Hitler broke the NAP was because they expected him to attack in March the next year, after the Russian winter. Attacking before a Russian winter, without enough time to complete most of the objectives, is suicidal as Hitler and Napolean both found out.

Koba · Post by **Koba** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:48 am

Blueoctober wrote:
Koba wrote:
And also, with regard to the other point, I personally don't regard Stalin as a communist/socialist.

stupidest thing i have ever heard

excuse me...read

Think what you will, but as others have pointed out, he did most of it to benefit himself. If you look at his policies they jump around during his power struggle depending on who was his strongest rival. Stalin did what benefited himself, and he did it by rising (or jumping really, when Lenin died he was known as 'comrade card index') through the only political organization available to him, so he had to take up a Communist beginning to maintain power. You're not going to take power in a communist party implimenting any other policies.

And Titanic, agreed.

HaveABanana · Post by **HaveABanana** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:10 pm

The USSR was never a socialist or communist state any more than the current US is a democracy. Anyone with a proper education will know exactly what I'm saying here.

As far as the "What if" concerning the US and WWII, it's all purely hypothetical. Perhaps the Allies would have held out against the Axis. Perhaps not. I would not go so far as to claim that the Royal Navy would not have been defeated, however. My personal opinion on that is that the Nazi air force was powerful enough to eventually render it ineffective.

Balsiefen · Post by **Balsiefen** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 1:55 pm

No it wasn't- the Battle of britain virtually destroyed the luftwaffe, thats why they went off to attack russia instead of comencing the invasion of britain, they didnt have the airforce

Molacole · Post by **Molacole** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:24 pm

minihaymanz wrote:the edit button is a foreign object to you isn't it?

But im sure thats not the ONLY foreign object for you...

edit::
Molacole wrote:Send our troops into Africa so they can come home with AIDS? lol yeah good choice of targets...

you DO realize that its not an airborne disease right?
Sexually transmitted or contact between bodily fluids?

lol are you serious? Have you ever been in the military or do you even know what military men do? Over seas without a girlfriend or wife by our side then yeah use your imagination. Have you ever heard of red light districts and no I'm not talking about the ludacris song...

What about hand to hand combat? You think these men run around with no open wounds on their bodies like they haven't been diving in trenches or don't have their knuckles all chaffed up or even blisters on their hands or sores on their shoulders from carrying a gun around.

Seriously use some common sense... you live in a box or something?

HaveABanana · Post by **HaveABanana** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 2:33 pm

I've got to give this guy credit here: the soldiers themselves don't always use common sense. Sometimes they just make poor decisions, whatever. They may not even expect to live through a tour, who can say? But the fact is that soldiers can get pretty promiscuous - and that doesn't mix well with Africa. I don't know how serious a threat wounds and blisters can be, but it would not surprise me if AIDS became a problem with a war in Africa.

Blueoctober · Post by **Blueoctober** » Thu Feb 15, 2007 9:20 pm

Balsiefen wrote:No it wasn't- the Battle of britain virtually destroyed the luftwaffe, thats why they went off to attack russia instead of comencing the invasion of britain, they didnt have the airforce

britain was on the verge of collapse when the luftwaffe stopped bombing its airbases

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:21 am

^ But it was Hitlers fault that they then went after the cities. Overall, we won the Battle of Britain, and prevented Germany from even possibly invading us.

ptlowe · Post by **ptlowe** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:32 am

Americans are the greatest and the rest of the world is jelous. We keep the rest of the world around just because watching idiots on the teli amuses us.

vtmarik · Post by **vtmarik** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:42 am

ptlowe wrote:Americans are the greatest and the rest of the world is jelous. We keep the rest of the world around just because watching idiots on the teli amuses us.

Statements like this one are the reason that most of the world hates us. It is America's unearned sense of entitlement and accomplishment.

In terms of reputation, the way the world views the US is analogous to how Americans view Kevin Federline.

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:50 am

Ptlowe, that one comment pretty much sumarises the last 28 pages on this topic.

ptlowe · Post by **ptlowe** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:00 am

The truth is the rest of the world is sick of Americans not because we think we are great. ALL people within a country think thier personal country is the best, but because a few leaders send troops were they dont belong. We dont belong in other countries. We should be spending the US money not on wars but on our people. Americans seem to care about the rest of the world thinks to much. During the sunami we gave the most. Yet when we had New Orleans very few even thought to make a public statement. We help alot and thus people get upset with us. We should just stay out of the rest of the world and worry about US concerns.

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 6:42 am

The EU countries as a whole donated much more then USA to the tsunami. Also, USA's contribution per person was terrible, its was around $9 per person, whilst UK was about $14, and Germany/Netherlands etc were much higher.

autoload · Post by **autoload** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 8:37 am

Titanic wrote:The EU countries as a whole donated much more then USA to the tsunami. Also, USA's contribution per person was terrible, its was around $9 per person, whilst UK was about $14, and Germany/Netherlands etc were much higher.

While I do not regard the typical American with much respect, I can see why they can only part with such a fortune as $9. That amount of money can almost buy 2 tins of Skoal for the hillbillies...

Backglass · Post by **Backglass** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 10:49 am

ptlowe wrote:The truth is the rest of the world is sick of Americans not because we think we are great.

Yes they are. We are pompous and arogant. We are the Jamie's of the world and believe everything is "our way or the highway".

ptlowe wrote:We dont belong in other countries. We should be spending the US money not on wars but on our people.

I agree 100%. With the money spent on the disastrous Iraq "conflict" (not a war...remember!) we could have sent over 17 MILLION students on a free four year ride through college or completely ELIMINATED all hunger within our borders forever. Those two things alone would have had positive repercussions for decades. http://www.costofwar.com

ptlowe wrote:Americans seem to care about the rest of the world thinks to much.

No...they really DONT care. We are the guy in the neighborhood who pisses everyone else off...and is oblivious to it.

ptlowe wrote: During the sunami we gave the most.

Myth. Source please.

ptlowe wrote:Yet when we had New Orleans very few even thought to make a public statement. We help alot and thus people get upset with us. We should just stay out of the rest of the world and worry about US concerns.

Agreed. We have BIG problems in our own back yard. Crime, Hunger, Homeless (Katrina), etc. We need to take care of our own before we go odd trying to save the world.

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 11:27 am

Donations given to Boxing Day Tsunami - Governments, public, NGO's, corporations

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanitari ... _of_Donors

areon · Post by **areon** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:20 pm

Balsiefen wrote:No it wasn't- the Battle of britain virtually destroyed the luftwaffe, thats why they went off to attack russia instead of comencing the invasion of britain, they didnt have the airforce

That's not true, Germany was running behind schedule and had to shift its forces to the east to take out the Balkans and USSR before winter. If they had had no plans to invade the USSR, Britain could have fallen because of the amount of tonnage being sunk by u-boats. If the Germans had combined their airforce with their navy to do that Britain would have possibly starved out.

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 12:23 pm

Battle of Britain ended October 1940. Russian campaign began mid to late 1941. The germans never stopped the battle of britain beacuse they needed to move to the east, they were defeated.

Warrior987 · Post by **Warrior987** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 3:16 pm

America has helped some many nations, but what do we get in return......NOTHING! You all act like iggnorant asses just because we don't agree with the way you want US to handle OUR problems. Britian-France-Afghanistan-Somalia-Grenada-South Korea-Cuba-Phillipines-China-Australia-Iraq-Georgia-Greece-and many others have all had some form of aid given to them by the AMERICANS! British ppl, although alright by my standards, still think they are the big dogs in the world. Well guess what that ended in 1776 when America was formed, but you guys still denied it until we had another war in 1812 which we stalmated and then we had to help you win YOUR wars twice. Now that we need SOME help with our SMALL war you guys throw a damn fit.

* I just used Britian as an example I personnally love your country.

flashleg8 · Post by **flashleg8** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:20 pm

Warrior987 wrote:America has helped some many nations, but what do we get in return......NOTHING! You all act like iggnorant asses just because we don't agree with the way you want US to handle OUR problems. Britian-France-Afghanistan-Somalia-Grenada-South Korea-Cuba-Phillipines-China-Australia-Iraq-Georgia-Greece-and many others have all had some form of aid given to them by the AMERICANS! British ppl, although alright by my standards, still think they are the big dogs in the world. Well guess what that ended in 1776 when America was formed, but you guys still denied it until we had another war in 1812 which we stalmated and then we had to help you win YOUR wars twice. Now that we need SOME help with our SMALL war you guys throw a damn fit.

* I just used Britian as an example I personnally love your country.

First of all Britain was a Great Power till 1914-18 war bankrupted us - then USA started to be dominant - not before.

Second point
WW2 = a just war
Iraq = illegal war

Guiscard · Post by **Guiscard** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 4:22 pm

Warrior987 wrote:America has helped some many nations, but what do we get in return......NOTHING! You all act like iggnorant asses just because we don't agree with the way you want US to handle OUR problems. Britian-France-Afghanistan-Somalia-Grenada-South Korea-Cuba-Phillipines-China-Australia-Iraq-Georgia-Greece-and many others have all had some form of aid given to them by the AMERICANS! British ppl, although alright by my standards, still think they are the big dogs in the world. Well guess what that ended in 1776 when America was formed, but you guys still denied it until we had another war in 1812 which we stalmated and then we had to help you win YOUR wars twice. Now that we need SOME help with our SMALL war you guys throw a damn fit.

* I just used Britian as an example I personnally love your country.

Are we a bit cross about something?

Titanic · Post by **Titanic** » Fri Feb 16, 2007 5:16 pm

Warrior987 wrote:America has helped some many nations, but what do we get in return......NOTHING! You all act like iggnorant asses just because we don't agree with the way you want US to handle OUR problems. Britian-France-Afghanistan-Somalia-Grenada-South Korea-Cuba-Phillipines-China-Australia-Iraq-Georgia-Greece-and many others have all had some form of aid given to them by the AMERICANS! British ppl, although alright by my standards, still think they are the big dogs in the world. Well guess what that ended in 1776 when America was formed, but you guys still denied it until we had another war in 1812 which we stalmated and then we had to help you win YOUR wars twice. Now that we need SOME help with our SMALL war you guys throw a damn fit.

* I just used Britian as an example I personnally love your country.

Cuba? Cuba?? You've made like 800 assassination attempts against Castro.

Somalia? You could have atually done somthing decent there in 1993, after Black Hawk Down. You went int here, actually faught the warlords, had the prospect of sorting the country out, but NOOO!!! Our foreign policy dusn want that any more, lets just fck that country up even more!

China? Please explain. Last time you helped them was the Pacific War, which ended like 60 years ago, and they were actually helped by an international force. Burma and the Indian subcontinent, mainly Commonwealth troops attacking the Japenese. Oceania, mainly Commonwealth troops. Ok, you did do most the work, but you were helped tremendously by the positioning of allied lands and bases, and the work the allies did for you, but that was ages ago.

Phillipines? Under the dictatorship they were reckoned to become one of Asia's strongest and leading economies, but after you intervened, look at them now. Civil war, faltering economy, hunger and loads of poor.

Iraq? Yer, great job...

Small war? The consequence of Iraq was the Madrid bombings and the London bombings. Tell the war was minor and inconsiqeuntial to the families of the 350 off victims.

Greece? Refresh my memory, cus I honestly cant remember what your talking about.

Afghanistan was invaded by NATO, not just you. The Canadians and British are actually patrolling and peacekeeping in the hardest areas - Helmand, Kandahar, other southern areas of Afghanistan.

1776. You would have done shit had you either faced our whole army, or fought without any international aid from Spain, Netherlands and France. WE fought by ourselves, with some Germanic tribes. 1812, you lost that war. We achieved our objective of defending and keeping Canada. You failed you objective of getting Canada. Also, Napolianic Wars are so much more important. We had our best generals, our best weapons, our best soldiers, most of our money, time and resources pumped into the Napolianic Wars. You were just an annoying bee stinging now and then who we could just knock away, but you werent worth the effort.

@Flashleg: Most people say the British Empire was a superpower after WWII, but then after the Suez Crisis and the ending of the empire (50's mainly), they fell to the great/regional power status.