The New World [Quenched]

[Wolffystyle]

Is one able to collect spoils now through bombardment from European homeland? Has this recently changed? Why was I under the impression that spoils used to only be collected through successful attacks in New world?

Thanks guys,

Wolf

[gimil]

Is one able to collect spoils now through bombardment from European homeland? Has this recently changed? Why was I under the impression that spoils used to only be collected through successful attacks in New world?

Thanks guys,

Wolf

It has always been possible to collect spoils through bombardment. This is a game engine spec rather than a map one.

[Wolffystyle]

Thank you, I don't know why I did not know this about New World.

[lhcguy]

First of all, i like this map very much.. but i just found out, that the description in post 1 differs from reality. The neutrals are spread in a different way on the map, and in 2player game everyone gets 4 territories, not 3.

Can this be corrected in the first post?

[gimil]

First of all, i like this map very much.. but i just found out, that the description in post 1 differs from reality. The neutrals are spread in a different way on the map, and in 2player game everyone gets 4 territories, not 3.

Can this be corrected in the first post?

Oh this was as accident, nice catch I will go fix it just now.

[btown80]

I'm not sure which forum to put this in, feel free to move it if necessary. I know conquer club looks to have as much of a fair fight as possible in all of their maps, but it seems that the situation has come up on a number of occasions (both in my favor and against me) where in a 1vs1 game, 1 of the players has 4 European countries, and nothing in the Americas. This is probably the most 1 sided drop EVER, as there is no possible way that player can win. Is there anything you can do where you can guarantee each player has at least 1 homeland in the Americas?

[gimil]

I'm not sure which forum to put this in, feel free to move it if necessary. I know conquer club looks to have as much of a fair fight as possible in all of their maps, but it seems that the situation has come up on a number of occasions (both in my favor and against me) where in a 1vs1 game, 1 of the players has 4 European countries, and nothing in the Americas. This is probably the most 1 sided drop EVER, as there is no possible way that player can win. Is there anything you can do where you can guarantee each player has at least 1 homeland in the Americas?

I am not really sure of any ideas how to fix this this, I have a few ideas but it would change the mechanics of the map as it is now for other game settings.

Does anyone have any idea or logic for changing the 1v1 drop to be fairer without distrubting other game settings?

[Esn]

I'd just like to say that this is my favourite map. For some reason, I play better on it than on any other map.

No, it's not perfectly even, but much more so than most, and it feels very unique. Starting from a native territory does seem to make things a bit more challenging (and the strategy is quite different), but that's part of the fun.

[the.killing.44]

Starting from a native territory does seem to make things a bit more challenging (and the strategy is quite different), but that's part of the fun.

1000% disagree.

[sully800]

Yeah, the native territories are better than the European homelands (unless using unlimited fortifications in which case I think the European homelands are a bit better. I never play that setting though). In either case, it is very close to balanced and the game is fun from either starting position. Of course it works best in 1v1 when each player has an equal amount of European and native lands.

[Esn]

Yeah, the native territories are better than the European homelands (unless using unlimited fortifications in which case I think the European homelands are a bit better. I never play that setting though).

Heh, well that might explain that then. I always play on the "unlimited, flat rate, no fog" setting.

Native territories are easier to expand from but also more vulnerable to attack. I tend to play defensively, so I guess starting from the European countries is just more my style.

[drunkmonkey]

I love this map, but I have one complaint: in many 8-player games, the player who starts out on Aztec homeland is killed by the Comanche army before he ever takes a turn. Can anything be done to make this a little more fair?

[Wolffystyle]

Yeah, the native territories are better than the European homelands (unless using unlimited fortifications in which case I think the European homelands are a bit better. I never play that setting though). In either case, it is very close to balanced and the game is fun from either starting position. Of course it works best in 1v1 when each player has an equal amount of European and native lands.

Quite the opposite. I firmly believe that European Homelands are better in adjacent and chained settings and Indian homelands are better in unlimited reinforcement games. I believe, Sully, that you have decided it's better to allow oneself to fort Europe to landing port each turn, and thus European advantage would been realized in unlimited forts. However, you cannot and SHOULD not go very far in adjacent type reinforcement games. European homelands are ideal in this setting. You get a larger bonus without blocking yourself in.

This map is inherently unbalanced, but I will add that that is part of the gameplay. I can win on any drop, though, if I play to the maps flavor. In sequential games, the first player should win a greater percentage of games. I play this map freestyle. This is an AWESOME freestyle map.

Finally, the ideal drop debate is not necessarily between Europe v. Indian, no, the measurement of a good drop is to see how many homelands can be adjoined; how many are next to each other. A great drop, for example, is Dutch+Mapuche....combine those two and conquer Portugal before North America can make its way down to South America...

If this is turning into an Indian v European homeland debate...what's the phrase? "Everything in moderation". Ideally, you want a split. 2 Indian and 2 European or, in adjacent settings, 3 European and 1 Indian... in unlimited settings 1 Europe and 3 Indians will do, too.

Wolffystyle~ +1100 New World

[Wolffystyle]

I love this map, but I have one complaint: in many 8-player games, the player who starts out on Aztec homeland is killed by the Comanche army before he ever takes a turn. Can anything be done to make this a little more fair?

The short answer is: Make the game foggy or play with Rational players.

The explanation of this event is that:

This can happen, yes. Should this happen often? No.

Player A starts on either Comanche or Aztec and gets 10 troops on his/her homeland. She assaults towards the other homeland, Aztec or Comanche (and must be aware that Player B has NOT started turn...this would rarely work in fog games).

Player A must combat a neutral 4, another neutral 4 and finally Player B's 3 on the homeland. This yields Player A with 25.524436993369515% chance of success.... Upon a fail, however, Player B has significantly greater odds to conquer player A... This move, therefore, is more often clearly advantageous for Player B.

No rational player should make this move unless he/she believes it will give him/her greater than 4x the odds to win the game (of course, you must factor the relative point value of the other players in the game, too...)

This could be a problem in Sunny Terminator games, too. But, again, player B better yield more than 4x the amount of points than player A would lose with a given attack....Player B must have 2x the total points that Player A has for this move to be anywhere near prudent.

Wolffy~

[drunkmonkey]

Thanks for the advice; I'll be sure to use it. I never said it was a great strategy, but it sure does suck to be Player B when it happens.

Keep up the good work!

[Agent 86]

This is the best map on CC

86

[SirSebstar]

the http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c64/G ... UTRALS.png does not show the true amount of neutrals. when will this be fixed?

[the.killing.44]

What is incorrect? Change the 5's to 6's and it's fine.

[Aldaron]

I started a game in the new world map with 4 other players. and a fellow player conquered one of my two homelands before I even started playing. So in a word, I lost before I even got the chance to play and the other player will probably win the game with this huge advange. So what I want to ask you is if this is normal in the map or if it should even happen.

PS: Sorry if this is not the correct forum to as this, I wasn't sure where to write it.

[natty dread]

Well that doesn't usually happen, at least what I have played on the map... perhaps he just got lucky.

[The Bison King]

I think under the right circumstances that can happen on any map. That does suck though. That's one of my favorite maps but I do hate it when I start with out one of the European homelands. That usually bums me out.

[the.killing.44]

Yeah, it's an unbalanced map, but it makes for a more interesting game.

natty, even coleman and gim have acknowledged its unevenness.

[natty dread]

May be, but I don't think it's that bad... it plays well anyway.

Anyway perhaps it would be possible to code all the european countries as starting positions... that way at least 2-5 player games would be more balanced, since everyone would start with at least some european countries. This wouldn't affect 6-8 player games though.

[ben79]

why is CC released this map ?

1_ totally unfair map and unbalanced for any numbers of players on it
2_ if you start on the europe mainland you're screwed since you have to kill 6's to take a region ( spoil)
3_ if you start in america you have only 1's to kill

just wondering why this map is out of beta ?

[MrBenn]

Yeah, it's an unbalanced map, but it makes for a more interesting game.

natty, even coleman and gim have acknowledged its unevenness.