an interesting perspective on racism

[john9blue]

The worst part is that some black people use the word among themselves. Disregarding whatever connotations the word may have, to say "nigger" and then criticize others for saying it is hypocrisy at its most obvious. I still think it shouldn't be said, but some black people are at fault here as well for perpetuating it.

[Serbia]

[player]owenshooter[/player], stay away from this thread. You'll be banned if you post here, and no one wants that (outside of Team CC that is).

In fact, this thread could be interpreted as a bait thread aimed at [player]owenshooter[/player].

[porkenbeans]

The worst part is that some black people use the word among themselves. Disregarding whatever connotations the word may have, to say "nigger" and then criticize others for saying it is hypocrisy at its most obvious. I still think it shouldn't be said, but some black people are at fault here as well for perpetuating it.

I used to feel this way also. It was like, they are trying to have a double standard. I have come to realize however, that it is NOT the word itself that is offensive to blacks. Its only a word. It IS when a white person says it that IS offensive. After all, it was whites that coined them term. And its meaning and intent, was not meant in a kind vane. I think that I will just let them have this one. They can use the word if they want, but I wont. Yeah it IS a double standard, but I can live with that. It comes down to empathy. I can imagine how they must feel on this issue, and I believe that if people just stopped for a moment and put themselves in the others shoes, they would see the wisdom here.

[a.sub]

firstly, to clarify any confusion, THIS THREAD DOES NOT ADVOCATE RACISM.

now after reading all the posts im gathering a few reasons as to why the theory is probably wrong
1) unlike most words this has emotional baggage that cant be dealt with easily. However i would like to point out that i simply used that word as an example. as a on overall approach to insults what do you ppl think?
2) you cant force a word to be impotent it has to occur over time.
3) what makes certain words insulting is when you try to separate people, calling someone a Paki is saying, you are different, you dont belong here. So would it be more accurate to say that it works without words meant to separate people on grounds they cant change/choose. There was a time when calling someone an anti federalist was an insult, but because it was a choice it lost its punch fast.

oh and just a quick thing on my mind, its small and holds no water while pertaining to the theory but i read it somewhere in the thread. Faggot means a pile of sticks that you burn. so its not really an insult as much as it is an implied death threat.

[oVo]

There are bricks that have exhibited more intelligence that you have expressed in this thread a.sub. You can't excuse the derogatory use of a word just because you don't understand it's definition and intent goes a long way in the interpretation of what is said. Sometimes a bundle of sticks is just a bundle of sticks, but when you use slang vocabulary to express contempt or as a malevolent, hateful, degrading or malicious response it isn't.

[john9blue]

There are bricks that have exhibited more intelligence that you have expressed in this thread a.sub. You can't excuse the derogatory use of a word just because you don't understand it's definition and intent goes a long way in the interpretation of what is said. Sometimes a bundle of sticks is just a bundle of sticks, but when you use slang vocabulary to express contempt or as a malevolent, hateful, degrading or malicious response it isn't.

So when you say "bricks" intending it to mean something monumentally stupid, and proceed to compare it favorably to a person, that can qualify as an unnecessary flame and therefore grounds for a "time-out" from the forums?

I completely agree.

[jonesthecurl]

Well John, you usually display the intelligence of at least two or three bricks, so you're safe from flaming.

[john9blue]

Well John, you usually display the intelligence of at least two or three bricks, so you're safe from flaming.

One could go so far as to compare my intellect to a brick wall!

[jonesthecurl]

I wouldn't go that far...

[khazalid]

Father Ted: [trips over a brick Jack is dragging round on a piece of string] Wha... what's going on!?
Mrs Doyle: Father Hackett's got very fond of that brick. It's a great old pet for him! He doesn't have to feed it or clean it or take it to the vet. Suits him down to the ground!
Father Jack: I love my, brick!
Father Ted: Ah, that's nice. Perhaps we're seeing a new side to Father Jack? A more caring, considerate...
[Jack suddenly hurls the brick at Ted, knocking him out]
Father Jack: Ah, feck it! Fed up with "briiiiiick"!

[HapSmo19]

I only use the n-word in the privacy of home - usually during the Raider game.

[Snorri1234]

I think a.sub confused interesting with retarded.

[SultanOfSurreal]

I think a.sub confused interesting with retarded.

i'm honestly surprised that only 56% of people voting think he's incorrect

seriously, you 11 people voting "correct" and "neutral" are fucking awful

[thegreekdog]

I was going to vote +2 until I read MeDeFe's post. As he said, words take on a connotation apart from the simple definition or original application. As another example (a word I can say because I am one) "wop" (the deragotry term Italians and Greeks in the US) was originally applied as "without pass." In other words, all of these swarthy, non-English speaking immigrants from the Mediterranean were coming into the US illegally, or without a pass. Now, if someone calls me a wop today, are they referring to me being without a pass? Of course not, they are referring to me in a deragatory fashion because the acronym "wop," although used to describe the condition of an illegal immigrant originally, is now applied as an offensive term for Italians and Greeks.

[jonesthecurl]

I doubt if that's the origin of the word, it was used in the UK too.

[thegreekdog]

I doubt if that's the origin of the word, it was used in the UK too.

Really? That's the only origin I've ever heard.

[jonka]

This isnt my own theory, but i will say that i think it has its merits

The theory is simple, if i walk up to a black person and say "Hi Nigger" and they get angry they are wrong.
why? well it seems a bit illogical but set aside that bias for a moment and listen. Nigger is a word, thus is has meaning. Its meaning is, a Person with darker skin, or youc an be mroe specific and define it as an african person. That is what it means, thats what is describes, no one can deny that describing an african as a nigger is in correct. Now to get mad at the word nigger means you are also giving it negative meaning. Nigger = african, Nigger = bad, thus african = bad. Now before you break out CAPS LOCK realize that they theory isnt saying that by getting angry at the use of nigger you are declaring a hatred of black people, but rather by reacting so negatively to the word you are giving it negative connotations on your own, its YOUR fault that its an insult. When someone had referred to me as "Curry Man" for my indian background i responded as if they were just calling me by my actual description, so i consciously didnt register it as an insult, and all of sudden that word wasnt an insult. Similarly if people reacted to "Nigger" as they did to "Person of African Decent" then its no longer an insult, it loses all its "insulting value."

One last thing, i would like to point out that the word Nigger and the words Border-Jumper as different.
Nigger means "person of african decent" so it would be like calling all black people person of african decent, its a fact, all african people have an african ancestor (GEEWHIZ who woulda thought?!)
BUT
Border-Jumper means an illegal immigrant, so it would be like calling all mexicans illegal immigrants, its a racist stereotype not a fact making it racist unlike nigger in the above theory.

By that logic I shouldn't get in trouble for saying f*ck in school when refering to sex.

[PLAYER57832]

I was going to vote +2 until I read MeDeFe's post. As he said, words take on a connotation apart from the simple definition or original application. As another example (a word I can say because I am one) "wop" (the deragotry term Italians and Greeks in the US) was originally applied as "without pass." In other words, all of these swarthy, non-English speaking immigrants from the Mediterranean were coming into the US illegally, or without a pass. Now, if someone calls me a wop today, are they referring to me being without a pass? Of course not, they are referring to me in a deragatory fashion because the acronym "wop," although used to describe the condition of an illegal immigrant originally, is now applied as an offensive term for Italians and Greeks.

Interesting how history repeats itself. The same thing (term-wise) is now happening with Mexicans. I find it notable that many of the most virulant "conservative" (in quotes because I think these folks are more right wing than conservative, though they label themselves as conservative) rhetoric seems to make "immigrant" and "illegal immigrant" synonyms.

[Rustovitch]

Language is consensual. The consensus of opinion is that as a general rule non-black people using the N word to address black people is wrong.

It really is that simple.

[a.sub]

This isnt my own theory, but i will say that i think it has its merits

The theory is simple, if i walk up to a black person and say "Hi Nigger" and they get angry they are wrong.
why? well it seems a bit illogical but set aside that bias for a moment and listen. Nigger is a word, thus is has meaning. Its meaning is, a Person with darker skin, or youc an be mroe specific and define it as an african person. That is what it means, thats what is describes, no one can deny that describing an african as a nigger is in correct. Now to get mad at the word nigger means you are also giving it negative meaning. Nigger = african, Nigger = bad, thus african = bad. Now before you break out CAPS LOCK realize that they theory isnt saying that by getting angry at the use of nigger you are declaring a hatred of black people, but rather by reacting so negatively to the word you are giving it negative connotations on your own, its YOUR fault that its an insult. When someone had referred to me as "Curry Man" for my indian background i responded as if they were just calling me by my actual description, so i consciously didnt register it as an insult, and all of sudden that word wasnt an insult. Similarly if people reacted to "Nigger" as they did to "Person of African Decent" then its no longer an insult, it loses all its "insulting value."

One last thing, i would like to point out that the word Nigger and the words Border-Jumper as different.
Nigger means "person of african decent" so it would be like calling all black people person of african decent, its a fact, all african people have an african ancestor (GEEWHIZ who woulda thought?!)
BUT
Border-Jumper means an illegal immigrant, so it would be like calling all mexicans illegal immigrants, its a racist stereotype not a fact making it racist unlike nigger in the above theory.

By that logic I shouldn't get in trouble for saying f*ck in school when refering to sex.

well i mean is there anything truly wrong with saying, person A fucked person B
i agree it sounds much cruder than "had sex with" but that the point, it really isnt, its just in our heads
also im assuming this isnt some annoying kid screaming it out in the middle of math class or something

[jonesthecurl]

This isnt my own theory, but i will say that i think it has its merits

The theory is simple, if i walk up to a black person and say "Hi Nigger" and they get angry they are wrong.
why? well it seems a bit illogical but set aside that bias for a moment and listen. Nigger is a word, thus is has meaning. Its meaning is, a Person with darker skin, or youc an be mroe specific and define it as an african person. That is what it means, thats what is describes, no one can deny that describing an african as a nigger is in correct. Now to get mad at the word nigger means you are also giving it negative meaning. Nigger = african, Nigger = bad, thus african = bad. Now before you break out CAPS LOCK realize that they theory isnt saying that by getting angry at the use of nigger you are declaring a hatred of black people, but rather by reacting so negatively to the word you are giving it negative connotations on your own, its YOUR fault that its an insult. When someone had referred to me as "Curry Man" for my indian background i responded as if they were just calling me by my actual description, so i consciously didnt register it as an insult, and all of sudden that word wasnt an insult. Similarly if people reacted to "Nigger" as they did to "Person of African Decent" then its no longer an insult, it loses all its "insulting value."

One last thing, i would like to point out that the word Nigger and the words Border-Jumper as different.
Nigger means "person of african decent" so it would be like calling all black people person of african decent, its a fact, all african people have an african ancestor (GEEWHIZ who woulda thought?!)
BUT
Border-Jumper means an illegal immigrant, so it would be like calling all mexicans illegal immigrants, its a racist stereotype not a fact making it racist unlike nigger in the above theory.

By that logic I shouldn't get in trouble for saying f*ck in school when refering to sex.

well i mean is there anything truly wrong with saying, person A fucked person B
i agree it sounds much cruder than "had sex with" but that the point, it really isnt, its just in our heads
also im assuming this isnt some annoying kid screaming it out in the middle of math class or something

Go read a book on elementary semantics.
Then come back and post.

[a.sub]

jones they are synonyms if used properly

[MeDeFe]

This isnt my own theory, but i will say that i think it has its merits

The theory is simple, if i walk up to a black person and say "Hi Nigger" and they get angry they are wrong.
why? well it seems a bit illogical but set aside that bias for a moment and listen. Nigger is a word, thus is has meaning. Its meaning is, a Person with darker skin, or youc an be mroe specific and define it as an african person. That is what it means, thats what is describes, no one can deny that describing an african as a nigger is in correct. Now to get mad at the word nigger means you are also giving it negative meaning. Nigger = african, Nigger = bad, thus african = bad. Now before you break out CAPS LOCK realize that they theory isnt saying that by getting angry at the use of nigger you are declaring a hatred of black people, but rather by reacting so negatively to the word you are giving it negative connotations on your own, its YOUR fault that its an insult. When someone had referred to me as "Curry Man" for my indian background i responded as if they were just calling me by my actual description, so i consciously didnt register it as an insult, and all of sudden that word wasnt an insult. Similarly if people reacted to "Nigger" as they did to "Person of African Decent" then its no longer an insult, it loses all its "insulting value."

One last thing, i would like to point out that the word Nigger and the words Border-Jumper as different.
Nigger means "person of african decent" so it would be like calling all black people person of african decent, its a fact, all african people have an african ancestor (GEEWHIZ who woulda thought?!)
BUT
Border-Jumper means an illegal immigrant, so it would be like calling all mexicans illegal immigrants, its a racist stereotype not a fact making it racist unlike nigger in the above theory.

By that logic I shouldn't get in trouble for saying f*ck in school when refering to sex.

well i mean is there anything truly wrong with saying, person A fucked person B
i agree it sounds much cruder than "had sex with" but that the point, it really isnt, its just in our heads
also im assuming this isnt some annoying kid screaming it out in the middle of math class or something

"Just in our heads" is exactly where language is, that's the only (aggregation of) place(s) it can be, in fact. I thought I had already explained that... But just out of curiosity, how would you integrate expletives into language if words only meant what they denote? That's right, you can't. Metaphors and similes? Would lose any sense they made before.

Your view of language utterly fails to accurately describe how language is used. You can come out and say that your view is how language should be, but if it were this planet would be a much worse place. If the price we have to pay for written and spoken art as well as expletives that have been shown to relieve pain (http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1910691,00.html) is a few words that are considered politically incorrect, well, I'm willing to pay it.

[Nobunaga]

I was going to vote +2 until I read MeDeFe's post. As he said, words take on a connotation apart from the simple definition or original application. As another example (a word I can say because I am one) "wop" (the deragotry term Italians and Greeks in the US) was originally applied as "without pass." In other words, all of these swarthy, non-English speaking immigrants from the Mediterranean were coming into the US illegally, or without a pass. Now, if someone calls me a wop today, are they referring to me being without a pass? Of course not, they are referring to me in a deragatory fashion because the acronym "wop," although used to describe the condition of an illegal immigrant originally, is now applied as an offensive term for Italians and Greeks.

Interesting how history repeats itself. The same thing (term-wise) is now happening with Mexicans. I find it notable that many of the most virulant "conservative" (in quotes because I think these folks are more right wing than conservative, though they label themselves as conservative) rhetoric seems to make "immigrant" and "illegal immigrant" synonyms.

... Player, this is just not true. It is the Left and the major media who describe illegal aliens always as simply, "immigrants", or as "undocumented workers". These terms effectively remove the criminal status of the persons under discussion. Your beloved NPR does this all the time, to cite one example.

... It's like calling a rapist, "intercourse participant".

...

[jonesthecurl]

jones they are synonyms if used properly

interesting use of the word "properly".