Feudal Epic, L&S, Pg. 49 [D, Gp, Gr]

by **Kotaro** on Tue Jul 21, 2009 9:03 pm

Mr_Adams, can you stop spamming this thread? I keep thinking there is an update and checking, and it's just you.

by **God Emperor Q** on Thu Jul 23, 2009 12:50 pm

Great kingdom, warlords, and rebel have the advantage b/c they have one choke point before they get to (what i assume) is going to be a 10.
Other than that.... OMG IM SO EXCITED

by **Kotaro** on Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:38 pm

Any xml updates?

by **Caymanmew** on Wed Jul 29, 2009 4:41 pm

God Emperor Q wrote:Great kingdom, warlords, and rebel have the advantage b/c they have one choke point before they get to (what i assume) is going to be a 10.
Other than that.... OMG IM SO EXCITED

they all have that

by **Mr_Adams** on Wed Jul 29, 2009 5:08 pm

caymanmew wrote:
God Emperor Q wrote:Great kingdom, warlords, and rebel have the advantage b/c they have one choke point before they get to (what i assume) is going to be a 10.
Other than that.... OMG IM SO EXCITED

they all have that

no they don't. great kingdom has 5 and 6, Realm has 4 5 and 6, feudal has 5 and 6, Warlords has 2 and 6, imperial has (effectivly) 4 and 5 (assuming 6 is left for bombard), Barbarian has 1 5 and 6, clan Rhu has 1 2 6 and 7. Rebel has the huge advantage of only having 6. You can effectivly sit directly behind your 10 and build. take all territories except 5 and 7 (or 3 and 7), using 5 (or 3) to bombard for cards and sit in wait. for the other castle, the primary strategy will be to take all territories excpet one leading to 7 and one to bombard. Rebel will have a slight advantage, but a slight advantage is an advantage.

Reb 7 should be attached to Reb 4. maybe 5 as well

by **God Emperor Q** on Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:51 pm

Mr_Adams wrote:
caymanmew wrote:
God Emperor Q wrote:Great kingdom, warlords, and rebel have the advantage b/c they have one choke point before they get to (what i assume) is going to be a 10.
Other than that.... OMG IM SO EXCITED

they all have that

no they don't. great kingdom has 5 and 6, Realm has 4 5 and 6, feudal has 5 and 6, Warlords has 2 and 6, imperial has (effectivly) 4 and 5 (assuming 6 is left for bombard), Barbarian has 1 5 and 6, clan Rhu has 1 2 6 and 7. Rebel has the huge advantage of only having 6. You can effectivly sit directly behind your 10 and build. take all territories except 5 and 7 (or 3 and 7), using 5 (or 3) to bombard for cards and sit in wait. for the other castle, the primary strategy will be to take all territories excpet one leading to 7 and one to bombard. Rebel will have a slight advantage, but a slight advantage is an advantage.

Reb 7 should be attached to Reb 4. maybe 5 as well

exactly what i was trying to say... but im too lazy

by **gimil** on Tue Aug 04, 2009 1:21 pm

Tick Tock yeti.

by **sully800** on Tue Aug 04, 2009 4:12 pm

It seems like some pretty legitimate concerns about the gameplay balance were just brought up. I know balance is not always necessary, but in a map with single starting positions it needs to be as balanced as possible. If you start in Rebel, you can stack on 6 and bombard 7 to get cards. It is not possible in any other place to hold one border territory and still bombard. This advantage MAY be canceled out since Rebel is in the center of the map, but that doesn't actually make it closer to most other kingdoms so I think this is a real concern.

So without changing a whole lot about the map, it seems like connecting Reb 7 and 4 will help prevent the Rebel land from being the "best" starting spot. What do you think gim?

by **Kotaro** on Wed Aug 05, 2009 1:35 pm

Best spot? I don't see a problem.

You start in Realm, you capture 1, 2, 3, and 6, bombard 5, while stacking on castle to go through 4 and 7 to get out.

In Great, you take 1, 3, 5, bombard 4, and use 2, 6, 7 to get out, while again stacking on the castle.

In Feudal, you take 1, 2, 3, 4, bombard 6, use 5, 7 to leave, still on the castle.

In Rebel, you take 2, 3, 4, bombard 5, use 1, 6, 7 to leave, still castling it up.

In Warlords, you take 1, 2, 3, 4, bombard 5, and use 6, 7 to leave, straight out the castle.

Imperial, you take 1, 2, 3, bombard 5, and use 4, 7 to leave, straight out the castle.

Barbarian, take 2, 3, 4, 5, bombard 6, take 1, 7 to leave, straight off the castle.

And in Clan Rhu, you take 4, 5, 6, 3, bombard 2, and take 1, 7 to leave, straight off the castle.

Every castle can take a maximum of 4 terr's and still have a good bombard and leave point. Since the castle counts towards the +1 army for 2 territories, taking 3 or 4 makes no difference in the beginning. And each one has a valid exit point with the bombard and easy bonus.

It's perfect.

by **sully800** on Thu Aug 06, 2009 4:29 pm

I personally don't leave a bunch of territories open within my kingdom. If you attack all of them except for a single one to bombard you get an extra +1, which is usually the best strategy IMO. This requires you to have two separate stacks- one on the castle and at least one on your front line.

Now looking at that strategy, every kingdom is difficult to defend except for Rebel. In Rebel, you can stack all of your men on 6, and bombard 7 from the castle. 6 defends every single territory, so you can leave just 4 or 5 men on the castle without a risk of someone coming in and taking it from you.

In every other kingdom this is not possible. In the great kingdom for example, you can stack on 6 but the enemy could get to your castle by going through 5 if they break through. Therefore you would have to leave a slightly larger force on your castle to feel safe from a sudden break in.

With the current set up, I think I would definitely prefer to start in Rebel because I could stack all of my men on Rebel 6 and have them closer to the front lines and ready to go forth and conquest.

by **Kotaro** on Thu Aug 06, 2009 10:24 pm

Did you not just read everything I just wrote? Not only can you stay on your castle in every castle, you can get your +2 bonus every turn, while bombarding a territory, AND your stack does not have to leave your castle for the front line, leaving it in a defensive position for your castle.

Why in the world would you nub it up by having two stacks? Duh if you have two stacks you'll get blind sided from behind. The stack on your castle can go straight out of every area, hold +2 bonus, and defend the castle since it's on there. Holding Rebel is no advantage.

by **Jace22** on Thu Aug 06, 2009 11:06 pm

I agree with Kotaro, I don't see a problem with the layout. On another note, I am very excited for this map to be released

by **Kotaro** on Sat Aug 08, 2009 4:45 pm

Since Sully and friends have stopped arguing, where's the XML? Our yeti must have diiiied ;_;

by **sully800** on Sat Aug 08, 2009 7:29 pm

Kotaro, I know you like to argue just for the sake of it but I think my point was pretty clear. For every two regions within a kingdom you get an additional +1 bonus. So leaving 3 regions as neutrals within your kingdom is not the best strategy for maximizing your bonus. Within the Rebel kingdom there is no reason to leave men on the castle single Rebel 6 adequately defends the entire kingdom and you get a larger bonus than your proposed setup. In every other kingdom you can choose a smaller bonus and leave men stacked on the castle or split the stacks and get a larger bonus. That is why the Rebel kingdom currently has an advantage.

I'm interested in hearing Gimil's thoughts on this matter, as it would not be hard to connect either Rebel 7 and 5 or Rebel 7 and 4, and then Rebel would have the same set up as every other kingdom.

by **porkenbeans** on Sat Aug 08, 2009 8:23 pm

Sully is right, but I think that a map should have these differences, in the advantages of one bonus over another. This is all a part of being wise enough, to study the board. It is these advantages that allow for a better player to win over a less talented player. Even if you look at the original risk board, you will see the same thing. So I say kuddos to those like sully, that have the skill to read a board. Its all about skill and intelligence, ...and not just blind luck. 8-)

by **sully800** on Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:24 pm

That's a fine attitude as well, because it won't affect the game THAT much. I think it would be more interesting to play in the other kingdoms because you can choose between stacking all your men on the castle and getting 1 less man or splitting your forces in two for an additional man each turn. On Rebel stacking on 6 seems to be the de facto strategy to me. But that slight imbalance is okay as long as it is realized and planned. If it turns out to be too much of an advantage (doubtful I guess) it could be changed during Beta.

Website · by **Humrlmo** on Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:31 pm

porkenbeans wrote:Sully is right, but I think that a map should have these differences, in the advantages of one bonus over another. This is all a part of being wise enough, to study the board. It is these advantages that allow for a better player to win over a less talented player. Even if you look at the original risk board, you will see the same thing. So I say kuddos to those like sully, that have the skill to read a board. Its all about skill and intelligence, ...and not just blind luck.

Well put beans! I too agree....
I guess Kotaro is just letting everyone know that he will use the same strategy each time even on a new map. :roll:

Sometimes ya gotta mix it up, and the slight difference in that 1 castle or even 2 will add to the maps "character". It is after all a differnt map rather than the same one re-done. I say xml & let's go!!

If not said already....NICE JOB GIMIL!

by **sully800** on Sat Aug 08, 2009 11:34 pm

Humrlmo wrote:
If not said already....NICE JOB GIMIL!

Absolutely. This one looks better than the original and it's much more balanced. I think it will be an enormous hit! =D>

by **porkenbeans** on Sun Aug 09, 2009 12:56 pm

Also, just because a certain bonus IS better than its peers, that does NOT mean necessarily, that you should always go for it. In a game with good players it may be wiser to stay away from the areas that are the hottest contested, as this will tend to wear down your forces quickly. 8-)

by **sully800** on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:03 pm

porkenbeans wrote:Also, just because a certain bonus IS better than its peers, that does NOT mean necessarily, that you should always go for it. In a game with good players it may be wiser to stay away from the areas that are the hottest contested, as this will tend to wear down your forces quickly.

Well on this map you don't have a choice. Your starting position is luck of the draw which is the best reason for balanced positions (I think the major flaw from Feudal War is the trapped position of Might). But you are correct for most maps - battling someone for australia is almost never worth it for example.

by **danfrank** on Sun Aug 09, 2009 1:33 pm

People have still won starting in realm

by **Kotaro** on Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:34 pm

Blah blah blah. Yeah, I'm just arguing for the sake of arguing. And you're just posting since you don't actually do any work as a moderator. Since your posts in general are rude and widely inaccurate, Sully, I'm going to choose not to quote and respond to each of them.

As for you Humrlo, you can go ahead and split your stacks if you don't like my strategy. I'll just come in, go around your stack, snatch your castle, and bombard your larger stack to as low as I can get it. i need the easy points.

by **Kotaro** on Sun Aug 09, 2009 5:35 pm

And for the record, anyone who believes Realm of Might from Feudal War is a bad starting spot, should stop playing the map altogether, you're just feeding good players.

by **sully800** on Mon Aug 10, 2009 7:12 pm

Kotaro wrote:As for you Humrlo, you can go ahead and split your stacks if you don't like my strategy. I'll just come in, go around your stack, snatch your castle, and bombard your larger stack to as low as I can get it. i need the easy points.

Too bad you can't do that to the player on Rebel, since there is no need to split any stack to get a larger bonus. That was the entire point, because in every other kingdom splitting the stack is probably not a great idea since someone can steal the castle, but in Rebel you don't need to split anything. Hence the suggestion to modify the borders slightly.

It is not likely to come into play very often, and therefore doesn't create any large problem. This only matters in the intermediate stage between leaving your kingdom and grabbing a village or attacking someone else's castle. But it's a curiosity since the territories mentioned look like they actually should be connected and for every other kingdom they are.

Website · by **Humrlmo** on Mon Aug 10, 2009 10:17 pm

sully800 wrote:
Kotaro wrote:As for you Humrlo, you can go ahead and split your stacks if you don't like my strategy. I'll just come in, go around your stack, snatch your castle, and bombard your larger stack to as low as I can get it. i need the easy points.

Too bad you can't do that to the player on Rebel, since there is no need to split any stack to get a larger bonus. That was the entire point, because in every other kingdom splitting the stack is probably not a great idea since someone can steal the castle, but in Rebel you don't need to split anything. Hence the suggestion to modify the borders slightly.

It is not likely to come into play very often, and therefore doesn't create any large problem. This only matters in the intermediate stage between leaving your kingdom and grabbing a village or attacking someone else's castle. But it's a curiosity since the territories mentioned look like they actually should be connected and for every other kingdom they are.

Beat me to the reply sully!! =D>

Feudal Epic, L&S, Pg. 49 [D, Gp, Gr]

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