[Abandoned] - Conquer National Bank

[ustus]

i don't know if that works for me or not, but i'm old fashioned enough that i still see each terit as a PLACE, which means you can conquer it. I can get my head around killer neutral terits cuz they're terits that become no-man's-land a little while after you take them. I can get my head around people being the terits, cuz you're conquering their loyalties, and you get the bonus cuz some of them will fight for you. But to me a terit shooting another terit sounds like bombardment, and bombarding a killer neutral is completely pointless. I know that's not what you meant, but it doesn't make sense that you could capture the loyalty of a thug, use him to shoot another thug, which somehow brings you his loyalty, use him to capture a hostage next to him, and then both thugs decide you're not worth their trouble but you still own the hostage... it doesn't make sense to me. Having the thugs able to bombard stuff, maybe, since they'd have guns and etc. I don't know if i'm explaining it well, and it's a question of the feel of the map, not the substance, but that's my concern with using the thugs as portals. As well as the fact that there'd no longer be any way to gain a positive bonus, just a negative, which means that you'd have to capture three terits for each alarm or money stash as well as an additional nine terits just to keep getting three. That concept would scare me away from ever playing the map. Maybe since everyone's in the same boat for that it'll even out, but i think the fewer reinforcements you get the more it becomes a game of luck as to whether or not those reinforcements are enough to take the next space. And then you have everyone trying to make those reinforcements enough. And (as a note of curiosity) what will the xml system do when someone has more than three negative bonuses but only three troops for number of terits? they'll have 0 or even possibly a negative number of reinforcements. What does the program do, let you take a troop away from a spot of your choosing??? No, i think you need something to be worth bonus troops, or at least you need to make it easier to get terit bonus troops. And the easier that is the easier it is for the first player to reduce his oponents' count and extend his own. Sorry for spiderwebbing so much, but this is my response to that idea. It is your map though, so go for it. These are just my concerns.

[Hopscotcher]

hmmm... so if two players start next to each other, and one goes first with two +1 bonuses (which wouldn't be too improbable) and the other starts with a -1 or two (or, God forbid, 3!) we're talking about the first person getting a minimum of +5 their first turn, and possibly hitting the second, who could be getting only 1 reinforcement, i think this sounds like a disaster. I think at the very least, the minus one needs to start neutral, unless i'm wrong and even on 8 player the map starts everyone with more than 12 terits... in which case we're still looking at a possible difference in starting reinforcements of up to 5 or 6 if someone gets really unlucky. I think that's a big enough difference to at least screw up the game experience, no fun to start that far behind unless the person who starts ahead plays really dumb and you manage to win from that start. Just a thought (sorry i've kinda dissapeared... i spend no time at my computer now that i'm home from college. Glad to see this is still progressing, keep up the good work. And don't bump the sticky thread )

You ever played Sequential on Pearl Harbor? Everyone almost always starts out with a bonus. In Turn order, everyone pretty much eliminates everyone elses bonus. At some point the game ends.

OK...

I still stand by my vote for +1 Autodeploy for groups of Three on Thugs or Police and having less neutral troops. Hell. Keep the -1 for money bags and make them starting positions too. As long as the getaway car is hard enough to get, no one is going to win first turn.

Amazing drops can happen on any map.
That's a RISK we all take.

ttfn,
Hops

[a.sub]

this is an interesting conundrum

[ustus]

no i haven't played the pearl harbor map. Not enough ability to reduce the number of terits i own that border another player's teritory. I like to turtle, it's the only strategy i've ever mastered. I realize i'm a noob. But i still think it's the map maker's job to make the map as fair as possible at the start, cuz it's just demoralizing to realize that you got a horrible drop and the other players will have to be a lot worse than you for you to have any chance of even holding your own (and trust me, very few players are that much worse than me, so i have some idea what i'm talking about.)

[a.sub]

gangsters get an auto deploy of 1
alarms get an auto deploy of -1
carts get nada

[Hopscotcher]

gangsters get an auto deploy of 1
alarms get an auto deploy of -1
carts get nada

I personally like the carts at -1. It makes holding the cash harder.

[a.sub]

gangsters get an auto deploy of 1
alarms get an auto deploy of -1
carts get nada

I personally like the carts at -1. It makes holding the cash harder.

yeah but maybe an easier win will make people concentrate more on the carts cash and not on each other?
just a thought

[Hopscotcher]

gangsters get an auto deploy of 1
alarms get an auto deploy of -1
carts get nada

I personally like the carts at -1. It makes holding the cash harder.

yeah but maybe an easier win will make people concentrate more on the carts cash and not on each other?
just a thought

There are lots of maps with win objectives: Oasis, Operation Drug War has several, etc.

My personal strategy never changes: Get rid of the people first and then go for the bonuses and such if I have to in order to win (arms race is a good example).

I guess it depends a lot on how you want your map to be. For instance, why give the guards a -1? Is that because you want the crooks to succeed? I know I do, but I'm not sure I understand the reasoning. I think the crooks and cops should get a similar bonus, although the opposed one makes the map more interesting, so.... Idunno. There should be some benefit to holding cops. Maybe the crooks get +1 autodeploy and cops have -1, but the cops can fort through each other? Definitley don't want to have them able to attack each other, but if you could use them to move troops around, that would be cool.

I think making the STASHES. Sorry I keep using the Carts lol. It's stuck in my head. Anyway, making the STASHES without the -1 i think makes the objective more reachable, but also less interesting. Like. I take a Stash, right? OK, it's part of the objective, so i'm going to stack it. Without the -1, there's no deterrent to parking troops on the stash. the -1 makes me think hmmmm..... how much do i really want that money?

I can't speak for anyone else, but I gravitate toward the stranger maps with odd bonuses and such. I don't know if my input is of any help or not, but those are my thoughts.

ttfn,
Hops

[ustus]

no no no, you ( the player) are the crooks, the cops are trying to stop you. That's why you get bonuses for controlling more crooks (your henchmen) and you get penalties for having cops working in your teritory (your opponent) Although it would be interesting to see half the players start as cops and the other as robbers and each had an objective, that's not this map, that's a fresh idea maybe someone should pursue that? i'm not nearly as un-busy as i thought i'd be now that it's summer...

anyway, the cops are also a -1 because of a gameplay consideration, they make a penalty for seeking out the objective, which you have to have to win. though, now that the subject's come up, that might cause sitting and waiting for your opponents to take the carts, then killing all their territs except the -1 (which brings me back to an earlier question of mine, what happens if you''ve got only 9 or fewer terits, but more than 3 -1 bonuses? you'd have negative reinforcements, what will the XML do?)

I don't know if it's possible to fort along a line that can't attack, ask someone who knows something about XML... but that's an interesting concept...

As to what maps i gravitate toward, i always have at least 2 games going on World 2.1 - it's huge, so i have a chance to carve out a bit of an empire before someone's trying to kill me, and that's all i really want out of a game of risk... erm ... i mean... um... what are CC's games called, anyway? world domination rounds? a game of what, exactly? dang, copyrights stink when you're not the one holding them...
I'm trying to play the other maps i haven't gotten to in my other two slots ( i wish i could play more, but i'm too cheap to actually pay anything...) i agree, the -1 on the stashes makes me want to just wait and collect troops on my terits that aren't -1's and try to get +1's so that i can have more reinforcements and enter into a war of attrition, but i'd have to worry, would the other guy win the game while i'm waiting for him to have a lower bonus?

but i'm rambling, which means i'm tired (or nervous, but i doubt that.....), so i think i'll come back and see if this still makes sense in the morning...

[Hopscotcher]

anyway, the cops are also a -1 because of a gameplay consideration, they make a penalty for seeking out the objective, which you have to have to win. though, now that the subject's come up, that might cause sitting and waiting for your opponents to take the carts, then killing all their territs except the -1 (which brings me back to an earlier question of mine, what happens if you''ve got only 9 or fewer terits, but more than 3 -1 bonuses? you'd have negative reinforcements, what will the XML do?)

I'm not writing anything other than: I played a game on Prison max and it was the end of the game. The only territory I controlled was gas chamber (-5 without warden)

I was awarded a single troop for my turn. Of course, it was escalating and I had a set and I almost won lol, but that was the base deployment.

[Hopscotcher]

I don't know if it's possible to fort along a line that can't attack, ask someone who knows something about XML... but that's an interesting concept...

I'm pretty sure it's possible, but I've never even looked at XML, so....

but I know in Halloween Hallows, you can fort along lines that can't attack each other... Bone to Witch to Cross. So it's probably doable.

OK. off to bed with me before I start rambling too.

[ustus]

anyway, the cops are also a -1 because of a gameplay consideration, they make a penalty for seeking out the objective, which you have to have to win. though, now that the subject's come up, that might cause sitting and waiting for your opponents to take the carts, then killing all their territs except the -1 (which brings me back to an earlier question of mine, what happens if you''ve got only 9 or fewer terits, but more than 3 -1 bonuses? you'd have negative reinforcements, what will the XML do?)

I'm not writing anything other than: I played a game on Prison max and it was the end of the game. The only territory I controlled was gas chamber (-5 without warden)

I was awarded a single troop for my turn. Of course, it was escalating and I had a set and I almost won lol, but that was the base deployment.

well that answers one of my questions asked for curiosity's sake... yay

I don't know if it's possible to fort along a line that can't attack, ask someone who knows something about XML... but that's an interesting concept...

I'm pretty sure it's possible, but I've never even looked at XML, so....

but I know in Halloween Hallows, you can fort along lines that can't attack each other... Bone to Witch to Cross. So it's probably doable.

OK. off to bed with me before I start rambling too.

In that case i'm kinda surprised that's the only incident of it... Ok, someone who knows XML, how does that work? i'm assuming it's a diff command than just border, similar to bombardment or one way attack. I'd want to use this to make a supply chain in some maps, possibly include a subway that functions like this in a city map, the number of uses i'm seeing for that is incredible right now.

Still, i'd never take two -1 spots just for the ability to travel between them, it's not quite an even trade there.

[thenobodies80]

Do you want fortify a territory from another that doesn't border with it ?
Attack are coded by borders
Reinforcements works in the same way.
Where there's a border, you can fortify.
No border, no fortifications

About Halloween Hollows:

Code: Select all

<territory>
<name>Wicked The Witch</name>
<borders>
<border>Witch's Castle</border>
<border>Tombstone Terrace</border>
<border>Gizzard Gue</border>
<border>Bat Wings</border>
<border>Mathius Goodbook</border>
<border>Fallow Field</border>
<border>Skull Road</border>
<border>Cauldron Bubble</border>
</borders>
<coordinates>
<smallx>397</smallx>
<smally>84</smally>
<largex>490</largex>
<largey>99</largey>
</coordinates>
</territory>

They are graphically not adjacent to the witch but coded as borders.

[a.sub]

and btw if your input (say 9 territs so 3 troops) is less than your bonus (-5 for gas chamber) then you get 0 troops and just kinda sit there i think

[a.sub]

ive been thinking
what about
+2 for thugs
-1 for alarms
-1 auto deploy for carts stashes
thoughts?

[ustus]

That would work, it allows you to hold a stash and still not lose any reinforcements (leave one on the stash, stock a spot you have to use to get to the stash). I also like the thug upgrade, but will that make a player too powerful if they just seek out thugs? and what did you decide about starting positions?

[a.sub]

That would work, it allows you to hold a stash and still not lose any reinforcements (leave one on the stash, stock a spot you have to use to get to the stash). I also like the thug upgrade, but will that make a player too powerful if they just seek out thugs? and what did you decide about starting positions?

well i doubt it since i will prolly make the thugs neutral 2 to start with
speaking of which
i think thugs will be a neutral 3 to start with
and cash/alarms will be a neutral 1
all vault doors will be a neutral 3 or 4 im not sure
thoughts?

[ustus]

I was thinking more on the stashes and doors, at least 5 on the doors (they're major obstacles) and at least 2 or 3 on the stashes (they're objectives)

[a.sub]

I was thinking more on the stashes and doors, at least 5 on the doors (they're major obstacles) and at least 2 or 3 on the stashes (they're objectives)

5 on doors is a maybe because that sounds reasonable
but carts stay as 1 because they have a -1 autodeploy and i want people to go for those
although i may make the car a 3

[Hopscotcher]

I was thinking more on the stashes and doors, at least 5 on the doors (they're major obstacles) and at least 2 or 3 on the stashes (they're objectives)

My only thought is the same thing I've said before: too many neutral territories.

Just to point out:
If you have less than 12 territories and 3 alarms, you'll get 1 troop each turn. Of course why would you do this? but I'm just saying.

I was under the impression previously that the bonuses were autodeploys.

I think this is a map that will need a lot of playtesting once it's ready to rock and roll.

ttfn,
Hops

[a.sub]

the only auto deploy are the carts

[ustus]

ya, your point about the carts makes sense, but i'd like to point out that it'd be easy enough to simply take the cart and then fort all your troops off of it. If i'm right, this will cause the auto deploy to kill 0 troops. This means that that won't affect a smart player at all. So I think they're too easy to take with anything less than 2 neutral for start. And Hops, my whole point against making everything a start is that if you start with less than 12 terits and an alarm or three there go your reinforcements... and have we made sure that it's 1 not 0 when you're actually mathematically earning a negative? that might be an issue for when this gets to playtesting. I guess my recomendation is that the stashes should be tough to take, but easier than the thugs, and the getaway car should be nigh on impossible to take. maybe make that as tough as the doors, it is the final objective after all. you don't want the objective to be too easy, just easy enough to be a viable alternative to wiping your opponent out.

Actually, i think specific neutral numbers can be played with after the beta phase, right? so it doesn't have to be perfect. you'll get it eventually. Now isn't the time that it has to be done.

[a.sub]

carts 2
alarms 1
thugs 3
doors 4
car 4

[ustus]

i'm good with those numbers. But i'm kinda new to this. Anyone else have input?

[a.sub]

i bump stickied posts