Man Gets Tazed and Beaten by Cops.......

[TheProwler]

Of the people I know that became cops, I can say that they are below average intelligence. They would be good candidates for a reporting officer to manipulate into doing unethical things in the name of justice. They are too stupid to really understand right and wrong.

I think that also has to do with who would simply make a good candidate for a cop. I mean, all the really smart kids want to go into science or computers or something along those lines. Where as a cop, who needs to be in good shape and physically fit and whatnot, well, that's more of your jock category. Football teams and wrestling and whatnot. And they aren't exactly renowned for they're intelligence. So you're taking somebody known for being a stupid bully, and putting him in a position of power. Probably the only thing that separates a cop from a common criminal is economic standing when they were in school.

I have to disagree with what you said a little about "jock" types. Some jocks are quite intelligent. A lot of my close friends in high school were "jocks" and a few of them were very intelligent. But of the three people in high school that became cops whom I know best, two are exactly as you describe. I played on the football team with one and on the hockey team with another, and I knew them well enough to know that they were pretty stupid. The third guy I actually knew better; he turned out to be a gambling addict and I am quite sure he would have abused his position as a cop to generate extra funds. When I think back, he actually had that attitude of thinking he was a little better than others - the "superiority complex" that InkL0sed referred to. He never got in a fight, that I recall, yet he seemed to be confident that he was tough. He didn't get great marks, but he seemed to be confident that he was smart.

Maybe my own personal observations help identify two types of people that become cops. The dumb jock-type and those with a superiority complex.

Maybe jay_a2j is a third type who actually wants to contribute and do a good job. And maybe that third type is of such a minority that they can't make a significant difference.

[Snorri1234]

If I was barred in whatever state he was in (Nevada, I think), I would take his case in a quick second for 33%.

Greedy lawyers.....

Yeah, let's see. With a lawyer, he would get 67%. How much do you think he'd get without one?

Zero percent.

Hatred of lawyers - another byproduct of our culture. Sigh...

Yeah uhm dude it's your fault for having so many lawyers. Seriously, such a huge amount!

[thegreekdog]

Yeah uhm dude it's your fault for having so many lawyers. Seriously, such a huge amount!

Yeah, we do have a ton. Not sure why everyone hates us though.

[Neoteny]

Really? Probably the idea that lawyers make money off of some of the most negative things in our life. Not that I think lawyers are bad. Seems they are necessary to an extent. But it's easy to see how they can become associated with a lot of negative feelings.

[thegreekdog]

Really? Probably the idea that lawyers make money off of some of the most negative things in our life. Not that I think lawyers are bad. Seems they are necessary to an extent. But it's easy to see how they can become associated with a lot of negative feelings.

I understand why people hate lawyers from a superficial standpoint. However, if something negative happens in one's life, and one can, with the assistance of a lawyer, be compensated for the negative thing, I would think one would like lawyers. That probably takes too much thought for the average American though.

[Neoteny]

Sadly, you might be right. Also, we've cultivated a culture that has certain views: lawyers are creeps; politicians are shady; movie stars are idiots etc. We love to hate.

[InkL0sed]

Sadly, you might be right. Also, we've cultivated a culture that has certain views: lawyers are creeps; politicians are shady; movie stars are idiots etc. We love to hate.

Yeah, and liberals are effete, elitist, socialist, limousine-riding professors at universities with beards.

[pmchugh]

I totally disagree, it's not that cops are more likely to be thugs or whatever it is merely that they are in power and that you are not. Look at it this way, are politicians likely to be well educated? Of course, but no one likes them either

[neanderpaul14]

Soldiers in the "War on Drugs". The government have been in an active war on a segment of the US population since Ronnie and Nancy and "Just Say No". I commend that guy, very brave.

Yes! The war on drugs has been a raging success! after all, when agents of our own government profit so readily from that which they are supposed to prevent, we all win!

Face it, prohibition doesn't work, it only creates a strong black market which empowers criminals. our politicians are in the pockets of so many, it blows my mind.

At the very least legalize weed then the government could use the revenues from the taxes on this to continue their war on real drugs.

[jay_a2j]

Yeah uhm dude it's your fault for having so many lawyers. Seriously, such a huge amount!

Yeah, we do have a ton. Not sure why everyone hates us though.

OJ Simpson to start. You guys will defend the worst criminal alive for the almighty buck. I don't "hate" lawyers, some of them are just greedy like some cops are pricks.

[captain.crazy]

Yeah uhm dude it's your fault for having so many lawyers. Seriously, such a huge amount!

Yeah, we do have a ton. Not sure why everyone hates us though.

OJ Simpson to start. You guys will defend the worst criminal alive for the almighty buck. I don't "hate" lawyers, some of them are just greedy like some cops are pricks.

everyone deserves their due process... and someone needs to defend the criminal.

[jay_a2j]

Yeah uhm dude it's your fault for having so many lawyers. Seriously, such a huge amount!

Yeah, we do have a ton. Not sure why everyone hates us though.

OJ Simpson to start. You guys will defend the worst criminal alive for the almighty buck. I don't "hate" lawyers, some of them are just greedy like some cops are pricks.

everyone deserves their due process... and someone needs to defend the criminal.

That doesn't excuse the ethics of lawyers. (or lack there of) Don't know how many cases where people are wrongly convicted, DNA evidence vindicates them and the prosecuter still believes that they are guilty. They don't care if the conviction is right, just that they got a conviction.

[captain.crazy]

Yeah uhm dude it's your fault for having so many lawyers. Seriously, such a huge amount!

Yeah, we do have a ton. Not sure why everyone hates us though.

OJ Simpson to start. You guys will defend the worst criminal alive for the almighty buck. I don't "hate" lawyers, some of them are just greedy like some cops are pricks.

everyone deserves their due process... and someone needs to defend the criminal.

That doesn't excuse the ethics of lawyers. (or lack there of) Don't know how many cases where people are wrongly convicted, DNA evidence vindicates them and the prosecuter still believes that they are guilty. They don't care if the conviction is right, just that they got a conviction.

I agree... thats why I am saying that even the most foul of suspects, the ones that are absolutely guilty, still need their due process.

[jay_a2j]

Good thing I'm not a lawyer. I could not in good conscience defend a person whom I believed was guilty. And I could not prosecute a person that I believed was innocent.

[Snorri1234]

That doesn't excuse the ethics of lawyers. (or lack there of) Don't know how many cases where people are wrongly convicted, DNA evidence vindicates them and the prosecuter still believes that they are guilty. They don't care if the conviction is right, just that they got a conviction.

You have such a solid understanding of the law.

[john9blue]

You have such a solid understanding of the law.

And you have refuted him quite brilliantly.

Either that or you are completely unaware of your apparent sarcasm.

[PLAYER57832]

You can't sue after willingly allowing a search. The guy has constitutional rights and those cops didn't like him standing behind them so they beat the crap out of him. End of story. The problem with the "He just should have did as he was told" frame of mind is that we have rights, we should not have to bow down to authority figures who violate those rights. If the guy was lying about the dog then they should have had no problem bringing it back out... but they didn't. Why? Because they were lying, they had no probable cause.

Jay, you have to stop talking sense; I think the whole world is turning upside down

Working in law enforcement for almost 10 years, I have seen or heard things that would really make the average person question law enforcement. I distance myself from those that abuse their badges. But far too many do. Some people get a badge and then think that they are above the law. It's not about "not liking authority", it's about seeing the abuse of power almost on a daily basis. Some people should never be in a position of power.

I agree with I... this is 2 whole posts I agreed with in full!

But, back to reality:

Of the people I know that became cops, I can say that they are below average intelligence. They would be good candidates for a reporting officer to manipulate into doing unethical things in the name of justice. They are too stupid to really understand right and wrong.

I think that also has to do with who would simply make a good candidate for a cop. I mean, all the really smart kids want to go into science or computers or something along those lines. Where as a cop, who needs to be in good shape and physically fit and whatnot, well, that's more of your jock category. Football teams and wrestling and whatnot. And they aren't exactly renowned for they're intelligence. So you're taking somebody known for being a stupid bully, and putting him in a position of power. Probably the only thing that separates a cop from a common criminal is economic standing when they were in school.

Cops are just like anyone else. The profession does attract some who are power hungry bullies, but the real problem is that good, honest people join the profession and then get put through so much garbage.. from seeing only the very worst in and of people to the ways they are forced to plain deal with people, to the baloney they have to deal with administratively, etc. ... it CREATES jerks!

I have known several people who went into the profession. They started honest, caring, etc. Each became an utter jerk. We need to change how we train cops, how we rate them and the tools we give them.

One example is community patrols -- walking/biking patrols in cities, by care in more widespread areas. They still see and have to deal with the jerks, but they also get to spend time with the nicer ones, particularly the kids who need to see cops in a decent light.

Another is to base funding, etc on crime reductions instead of just on arrests. Granted, you will have to compare like areas and so forth, but I am amazed at the number of legislators that decry speed traps, etc ... only to turn around and basically force cops to use those measures to get thier arrest counts up.

Anyway, those are 2 of the simplest. They certainly won't solve everything.

[TheProwler]

I witness a similar thing at the Humane Society. The people that start in Animal Care who deal with adoptions normally start out being very friendly to the potential customers. They believe them when they say they are animal lovers and are very happy to adopt out animals to new homes. But after seeing animals brought back for various lame reasons (the puppy pees in the house (Really? Who would have thought!?!), the kids aren't walking the dog enough (Didn't we tell you that *you* would have to walk the dog? You can't count on the kids.), the kitten was fun, but the cat just sits around most of the time - can we adopt another kitten? (Ummm, no.), we don't really have enough time (We told you it would be a huge time investment - didn't you believe us?), etc. etc., they become a little cynical. They begin to distrust everyone that walks into the place. Not to mention the cases of abuse and neglect that we all see. It is easy to start to lose faith in people.

I suppose it would happen to cops too.

But, isn't that the challenge of the police force? To put things in perspective? To focus on the good in people and understand that it is the good people that they are serving? To not lump everyone together with the scum of society? When the police lose the ability to see the good in people, they are only going to turn the good people against them too.

[thegreekdog]

As someone said, everyone is entitled to due process.

In terms of being unethical... lawyers, by and large, operate by ridiculous ethical rules. We have classes on them in law school and ethics are on the bar exam. Clients can report attorneys and the punishments are very bad, including, but not limited to, loss of license and jail time. There are unethical people in every walk of life, from doctors to carpenters to priests to politicians. Stating that all lawyers are bad because of OJ is misguided. Stating that all lawyers are bad because they have to represent guilty people is unamerican.

[pimpdave]

Border Patrol cops have always, it seems, had a reputation for being knee-jerk, overly violent, overweight slobs who couldn't get a job anywhere else.

I hope someone keeps track of this story and can tell us how it works out in the courts.

[PLAYER57832]

But, isn't that the challenge of the police force? To put things in perspective? To focus on the good in people and understand that it is the good people that they are serving? To not lump everyone together with the scum of society? When the police lose the ability to see the good in people, they are only going to turn the good people against them too.

Ideally, yes. However, cops are human like the rest of us. My point is that we, as a society, have some responsibility to change the boundaries.

I witness a similar thing at the Humane Society.

You make some very good points. But I would also say that one solution is to bring more real natural education into schools. There is another thread on the safety issue, but animals are another thing that have been almost completely excluded from many schools because of fears of disease.

We are creating a generation of kids who love dolphins and Eagles on TV, but who think cows stink and who's primary experience with wild birds is finding bird poop on the sidewalk.

[Juan_Bottom]

On the lawyer note--
I think it must have a lot to do with the fact that they are paid an a**load of money to manipulate the truth. They manipulate the truth for personal gain.
Not all lawyers are like that. There are different types of lawyers. But all lawyers on the "other team" do it.

We have classes on them in law school and ethics are on the bar exam. Clients can report attorneys and the punishments are very bad, including, but not limited to, loss of license and jail time.

Did anyone read that story a little while back where a man serving life in prison was released after serving 20 some years? Turns out another person confessed the crime in detail to their own lawyers (2 of them) years before. But then asked the lawyers not to tell. They couldn't talk about it because of client-lawyer confidentiality and had to wait until he died.
WTF? Ethics is a funny thing I guess. A lot of grey area.



On the cop thing-
I would bet that constantly doing such a difficult job really brings your inner qualities out. If you're a cautious person (for example you always drive under the speed limit) then you are going to be an overly cautious cop. You don't know if the guy you pulled over has a weapon...
Or if you are normally manipulative or controlling, well then you are always going to want to control the situation. Doesn't matter what the persons rights are, or really what the situation is.

I'm sure that it has everything to do with the type of work they are doing, and not that all cops are piggys. I don't know what it is like where you live, but out here 9 out of 10 cops are either rent-a-cops, lifers(never going to leave their hometown), or former soldiers.

[thegreekdog]

Did anyone read that story a little while back where a man serving life in prison was released after serving 20 some years? Turns out another person confessed the crime in detail to their own lawyers (2) years before. But then asked the lawyers not to tell. They couldn't talk about it because of client-lawyer confidentiality and had to wait until he died.
WTF? Ethics is a funny thing I guess. A lot of grey area.

Not a gray area per se. There is a rule that you can betray the confidences of a client to prevent imminent danger (I'm not sure of the exact rule). In any event, I believe those attorneys should be convicted of abetting criminal activity after the fact (or some such crime) and should go to jail.

[jay_a2j]

Stating that all lawyers are bad because they have to represent guilty people is unamerican.

No one stated that. But if this:

I could not in good conscience defend a person whom I believed was guilty. And I could not prosecute a person that I believed was innocent.

is unAmerican, then sign me up. I answer to a higher authority than the laws of this land. Not that it is (at this time) in contradiction with it. "Thou shall not bear false witness against thy neighbor" that includes misleading statements, twisting the truth, and lying to "get your guy" or "get him off". And don't you dare say that it doesn't happen.

[Snorri1234]

On the lawyer note--
I think it must have a lot to do with the fact that they are paid an a**load of money to manipulate the truth. They manipulate the truth for personal gain.
Not all lawyers are like that. There are different types of lawyers. But all lawyers on the "other team" do it.

We have classes on them in law school and ethics are on the bar exam. Clients can report attorneys and the punishments are very bad, including, but not limited to, loss of license and jail time.

Did anyone read that story a little while back where a man serving life in prison was released after serving 20 some years? Turns out another person confessed the crime in detail to their own lawyers (2) years before. But then asked the lawyers not to tell. They couldn't talk about it because of client-lawyer confidentiality and had to wait until he died.
WTF? Ethics is a funny thing I guess. A lot of grey area.

Lawyers aren't supposed to talk about the truth, they're supposed to talk about the law. Now obviously there have been cases of lawyers getting murderers out of jail, but there are also stories of lawyers letting innocent people go to jail because they couldn't be bothered to defend them. (Or didn't believe their clients were innocent.)

To hate on lawyers is just so immature, because it's the system which brings up these downsides. Now, you can hate the system ofcourse but the only alternative is back to the old days of mobjustice and guilty until proven innocent.