Abortion is a Blessing!

[got tonkaed]

Look, we already know you're an atheist who thinks you're smarter than everyone else. Stop waving your banner around, and realize that the majority of people think you're wrong.

So stop it. Just stop it.

+1 imo

probably should be cutting back on the posting anyway, ive been all over the board lately. Furrie threads and abortion, yowzers.

[joecoolfrog]

I dont see why people assume unborn fetuses are the same as the elderly or even infants. The elderly certainly have cognitive processes related to all types of humanistic behaviors that seemingly distinguish us from animals in terms of how we give rights. Essentially all the things that make it ok to use animals as resources how we wish but never take the life of innocents come not from some intrinsic thing like a soul (well they can of course but its more abstract seemingly) but from things like self-realization, the ability to have dreams and intentions that require more advanced cognitive processes.

What about the elderly that have alzheimer's? Another thing is prove we don't have a soul, i'd like to see your research.

An infant arguably doesnt have these things, and interestingly we didnt really mind infanticide in numerous points in human history, in fact it was even supported by the church at one point, i believe under an extension of limbo (which may show some of the potential sloppiness in using a soul as a defining line). However the fact that the infant has in fact crossed the threshold so to speak and has now gone under numerous more societially defining processes, such as naming and the like, probably make people percieve it as having done more to achieve its potential than simply an unborn child would have.

Haha let me guess you haven't studied religon? Or you miss heard a sermon/lesson? Because i don't remember anywhere in my bible condoning infanticide. Perhaps you miss heard the moses story, or your talking about the Islamic "church". Another thing is you have a soul at conception.

The unborn child has not done these things, it is not yet born and as such as far as i am aware does not fall under the legally endorsed sets of human rights provisions, which makes sense as it has not yet officially become a human. You are not born before you are born.

Oh so now the government is god and decides who and who doesn't have souls?

I will make it simple for you ;

Government = makes the law.
God ( any of them ) = Does not
It's in the Constitution you know

[JJM]

Abortion is immoral by every standerd. Only a selfish person wwould do it.

[Neoteny]

No it isn't.

[captain.crazy]

Abortion is immoral by every standerd. Only a selfish person wwould do it.

To be fair, people have the right to be selfish, but that does not give the right to commit murder.

[Timminz]

Abortion is immoral by every standerd.

"by every standerd" [sic], is a pretty broad statement.

In a situation where the mother's life was in severe danger by continuing to carry the unborn, would you rather see the mother die, than to allow an abortion?

Life would be easy, if the world only dealt in absolutes. Unfortunately for some, there are what we call, "shades of grey".

[JJM]

We were founded on freedom of religion but that also meens that we need to be welcoming to every religion and the Ten Comandments state that one shall not murder. It does not say with eception to the unborn.

[Timminz]

We were founded on freedom of religion but that also meens that we need to be welcoming to every religion

I agree. My religion has no problem with responsible abortion. Who are you to declare that it should?

[JJM]

We were founded on freedom of religion but that also meens that we need to be welcoming to every religion

I agree. My religion has no problem with responsible abortion. Who are you to declare that it should?

My religion does have a problem with it. I am Catholic. The law of Moses has a problem with murder and abortion is murder.

[Timminz]

I am Catholic.

Oh. I'm sorry.

[JJM]

I am Catholic.

Oh. I'm sorry.

No problem.

[captain.crazy]

Abortion is immoral by every standerd.

"by every standerd" [sic], is a pretty broad statement.

In a situation where the mother's life was in severe danger by continuing to carry the unborn, would you rather see the mother die, than to allow an abortion?

Life would be easy, if the world only dealt in absolutes. Unfortunately for some, there are what we call, "shades of grey".

Killing a baby because you don't want to take care of it is murder... killing one because it is either you or the child is another issue.

[JJM]

Abortion is immoral by every standerd.

"by every standerd" [sic], is a pretty broad statement.

In a situation where the mother's life was in severe danger by continuing to carry the unborn, would you rather see the mother die, than to allow an abortion?

Life would be easy, if the world only dealt in absolutes. Unfortunately for some, there are what we call, "shades of grey".

Killing a baby because you don't want to take care of it is murder... killing one because it is either you or the child is another issue.

Yes you do have a point. Sorry, I should of said most standerds.

[jonesthecurl]

Abortion is immoral by every standerd. Only a selfish person wwould do it.

To be fair, people have the right to be selfish, but that does not give the right to commit murder.

says the guy who nurses his handgun hoping a burglar will call so he can blow his head off.

[jonesthecurl]

We were founded on freedom of religion but that also meens that we need to be welcoming to every religion

I agree. My religion has no problem with responsible abortion. Who are you to declare that it should?

My religion does have a problem with it. I am Catholic. The law of Moses has a problem with murder and abortion is murder.

So: we have freedom of religion provided we agree with Moses?

[TheProwler]

Abortion is immoral by every standerd. Only a selfish person wwould do it.

To be fair, people have the right to be selfish, but that does not give the right to commit murder.

says the guy who nurses his handgun hoping a burglar will call so he can blow his head off.

What does that have to do with murder?

[apey]

exactly
self defense and murder are two separate things

[comic boy]

We were founded on freedom of religion but that also meens that we need to be welcoming to every religion

I agree. My religion has no problem with responsible abortion. Who are you to declare that it should?

My religion does have a problem with it. I am Catholic. The law of Moses has a problem with murder and abortion is murder.

Being a Catholic you oppose abortion, nothing wrong with personal choice, you would agree of course that everybody should have the option to make a different personal choice. The law of Moses,Thor or the Spaghetti Monster are all irrelevent in terms of the legality of abortion,its not a crime and thats an end to it .

[comic boy]

exactly
self defense and murder are two separate things

As are legal abortion and murder.

[got tonkaed]

We were founded on freedom of religion but that also meens that we need to be welcoming to every religion and the Ten Comandments state that one shall not murder. It does not say with eception to the unborn.

We were founded on a great many things, freedom of religion is merely one of them. Simply because something is part of a shared cultural history, does not mean we must be compelled to adhere to one particular outcome of one freedom.

Being welcoming to every religion also in no way requires us to follow the rules of any religion we choose not to. While i think the jainist monks are neat, no one expects me to become one of them, nor am i required to assist them in their own religious pursuits.

I dont think murder is nearly as simple as your making it out to be here either. It is difficult to explain the differences clearly enough between the different ways in which one can end another's life, unless you are a pacificist and argue never taking another life is the best path. But saying that its murder without doing so is simply adding a fast connotative label that doesnt really do much for a clear argument.

[muy_thaiguy]

We were founded on freedom of religion but that also meens that we need to be welcoming to every religion and the Ten Comandments state that one shall not murder. It does not say with eception to the unborn.

We were founded on a great many things, freedom of religion is merely one of them. Simply because something is part of a shared cultural history, does not mean we must be compelled to adhere to one particular outcome of one freedom.

Being welcoming to every religion also in no way requires us to follow the rules of any religion we choose not to. While i think the jainist monks are neat, no one expects me to become one of them, nor am i required to assist them in their own religious pursuits.

I dont think murder is nearly as simple as your making it out to be here either. It is difficult to explain the differences clearly enough between the different ways in which one can end another's life, unless you are a pacificist and argue never taking another life is the best path. But saying that its murder without doing so is simply adding a fast connotative label that doesnt really do much for a clear argument.

"Life, Liberty, and Pursuit of Happiness." Were not these the words that the US was founded on? If so, then what reason do we have to take away an unborn child's life from them? To deny them liberty and the pursuit of happiness that so many try to go for today by denying them the very essence in which it is granted, through life? Yes yes, the "Keep your laws off my body!" and "it should always be a choice!" will usually resound to one degree or another. And rape and incest would seem like a good reason to be rid of a baby. However, it is not the baby's fault in how they were conceived. And one thing I really don't like about Obama, is that he re-legalized the partial birth abortion. Of all of them, that is about the second worst, the worst one being that a baby is born earlier then they are meant to (due to certain drugs injected into the mother), yet put into a closet or the what not with a nurse (I believe) and pretty much left to die. So, where is the founding creed in abortion, or even the humanity in it? If it came down to the mother or child, then and ONLY then could I see a reason for this, but that is about it.

[got tonkaed]

Seems a bit grandiose in the rhetoric here. The rights of the social contract are in part only given because there is shared participation in the social contract. This is expressed in any arrangement where we can decide to end the right of someone to life, either through war or through the death penalty or through even taking someone off of life support. Although all have different circumstances they all express a similar point, when one no longer participates in the social contract that these rights are held within, they are no longer subject to these rights. It is simply life after all, you can do the same thing for liberty and perhaps more abstractly happiness (or property if we are going to go with the original usage of the notion) as well. If you violate laws thus breaking the social contract (not fulfilling ones obligation) then you forefeit your protection under the rights.

In order to have any system of rights, it most often requires a system of obligations as well. Without some type of obligation, the right in and of itself is of little value. If you have the right to do anything you want, and are not obligated to me in any way, we will have a very difficult social arrangement.

As unborn fetuses are not yet capable of engaging in the social contract, as they are incapable of holding any obligations, they are not protected under the rights of those that are. A unborn child cannot follow laws, it cannot engage in any number of the practices and procedures that make up human social relations. The only bond it has is to female who is carrying it to term. She is not providing the necessities of life out her own free will if she does not want to carry the baby to term. As the baby can carry no obligation in exchange for this right, the right is therefore not required to be given if it is not desired so by the mother.

[jay_a2j]

exactly
self defense and murder are two separate things

As are legal abortion and murder.

"Thou shall not kill" it does not differentiate between murder and self defense nor abortion and free choice. Killing is killing.

[got tonkaed]

exactly
self defense and murder are two separate things

As are legal abortion and murder.

"Thou shall not kill" it does not differentiate between murder and self defense nor abortion and free choice. Killing is killing.

are you a pacifist who is against gun ownership for self defense then?

[captain.crazy]

are you a pacifist who is against gun ownership for self defense then?

I believe that the commandment was "Thou Shall Not Commit Murder."

I had a problem with this when I was becoming a christian, because I thought it meant that I could not use deadly force when defending myself. They are two different things.