[Abandoned] - Conquer National Bank

[lostatlimbo]

I wholeheartedly agree with oaktown about using player names on the map. I was a big fan of this map in its early stages, but it seems to have gone downhill since then and that is a big part of it. Using player names strikes me as gimmicky and exclusionary. It's like a bad inside joke amongst 20 people, when your audience is several thousand. I really disliked it on the Home map, but its worse here. With home, it made some sense, but why would a bank be full of people with ridiculous nicknames? I think it kills the aesthetic.

I think you should replace the Thug/Gun names with more typical robber codenames. How about pulling a page from Reservoir Dogs and naming them Mr. Black, Mr. Yellow, etc. ?
The non-robber names could then just be normal names (Joe, Jane, Tom, etc.). And where is the Bank Manager? Why is there only one Teller in the entire bank?

That kind of segues into a bigger problem I have with the map - which is that so many of the territories seem like filler. There are far too many robbers and then a bunch of random people who seem to have no real purpose except as stepping stones.

I think this map would work much better if there were less people and more "obstacles" like alarms and locked doors.

For example, instead of the vault having a Back Door (?????????), make it harder to get into the vault. Have three consecutive territories leading up to the vault that are "Locks" - each starting with, lets say 5 neutrals each? (Think Arms Race, but to a lesser degree) And no back door - so a player can block off or be blocked into that space. Or better yet - have an "Escape Route" in the Vault - with 10 neutrals (as if the robbers have to drill a hole into a tunnel underground and out to the car as a Plan B)?

I still have faith in this map, but I think you've "lost the plot" so to speak. Keep the thematic value of the map in mind and I think you'll get it back on track.

That's my $.02 anyway

[LED ZEPPELINER]

gooooood all of the names are in place

[a.sub]

i think i am going to have to go with oak and lost@limbo
the names are gimmicky, corny and a cheap way to gain publicity
i will redo the names completely
i apologize to those who will no longer have their names on a map.

for the Thugs im thinking of names like
Big Eddy
Smalls
Bait
etc.

for the alarms im thinking of things like
Officer Jenkins
Guard George
Private Frank
Inspector Paul

for teh standard people i will do things like
Teller
Manager
Janitor

the bank wont be open so there wont be any "customers"

[dolomite13]

I love the map, but agree that if the bank is being robbed at night then you should have no people but guards. Make everything else locations. Not just room names you could use thungs like "desk", "file cabinet" ... places robbers could hide from the guards and sneak about the bank... Unless you put my name on the map that is...

Just my 2 cents worth...



--D



p.s. Just Kidding about the my name thing

[rjz115dude]

Hey, I really enjoy this map. It looks like it has good gameplay, and this could be a really popular map on the site. But my only problem is that aren't colors on real blueprints of maps so why should there be colors on you map? If the colors are for only aesthetic reasons than i think you should just get rid of the colors all together. Blue and white should be the only colors on this map.

[shakeycat]

As has been said many times - lighten up! I can hardly read things like "Cart 3" and "Martin Romne", because it is too dark and the font is scratchy. Increase the font size, make it bolder, or change to a more readable and/or more blueprint-esque font. I could not imagine trying to make these names out on the small map!

[ustus]

having not been here for a long time ( i just finished my first year of college, and i've been busy) I feel the need to point out some things.

Firstly: the "arm" on the vault door is NOT on the vault door. That is a cartoon style bomb (the classic sphere with a wick) indicating the placement of a HOLE BLOWN IN THE VAULT so that the vault is not a one-entrance zone (the second entrance was suggested by Rishaed (SP?) early in development, and i fully agree with this method of pulling that off.

Second: in regard to names of people, yeah, i guess you guys are right, deff makes sense. The idea of putting the names of people who had been involved in discussion made sense to me, and there weren't enough names there, so extending the call for names sounded amusing, I'll support the movement to pick random names. However, in regard to the names such as "teller" and "entrance" those are names of ALARMS. those names tell WHERE the alarm is located in the bank. And most banks (in my sadly small experience, so correct me if i'm wrong) have one teller AREA and having a dozen alarms in one area makes ZERO sense for this map. In regard to why someone would take the alarm called "entrance"- how else will they get to the getaway car, which is part of the objective? In regard to getting a good drop in the vault - they can't drop in the vault at all. Guns, Alarms, and Carts (i guess thugs, guards, and carts, now... that works nicely, i agree with that idea) start neutral. For the naming debate, i still strongly support that the guards should not have names, they should be named for the area they are protecting. It doesn't matter if Bob or Dave is on duty, just that he's guarding the teller.

Maybe the graphic of the BOMB in the wall to the vault needs some work (i thought that was a really obvious one, and i really want to tell ppl to read the previous discussion, but then i realized there's 24 pages of that... so nvm that suggestion ) but i think there need to be two entrances. The name for that obviously needs some work, but i think any book with a bombed out hole in the wall of a place characters are trying to get into seems to use the phrase "making my own back door" or "making my own entrance" so i think that makes sense, if you can tell that it's a graphic of a bomb.

On the most recent version, it looks like all the dead ends are either carts or thugs, and all the alarms are in places you'll have to take to progress, so you have to weigh the choices of taking the -1 and moving into a new area, or consolidating first.

as to lostalimbo's Stepping Stones comment, yes, that's what they are. In a map with this kind of bonus scheme, not every space can have a bonus, but that doesn't mean they're not all worth taking. In fact, the spaces without anything special on them are the starting spaces, so they're absolutely necessaryb, and in such quantities that the map isn't a full luck map.

Dolomite - no people in a bank robbery??? HOSTAGES??? but they're not necessary, that's just an explanation.
rjz- good point.
shakeycat - yep, that's been a theme of discussion, and i'll throw in my two cents, cuz it looks great on my comp. It actually kind of annoys me that all the maps are so bright that some even look washed out. but i guess everyone uses diff screens and screen settings... maybe i need to turn my brightness down or something...

Anyway, I'll try to post more often, since i had been here for so long and knew what was happening, and i don't want all the previous work just thrown out. However, I'll also try not to be a force of anti-change, either, since no map is perfect and there's obviously room for improvement.

*phew* long post, sorry...

[lostatlimbo]

Maybe the graphic of the BOMB in the wall to the vault needs some work (i thought that was a really obvious one, and i really want to tell ppl to read the previous discussion, but then i realized there's 24 pages of that... so nvm that suggestion ) but i think there need to be two entrances. The name for that obviously needs some work, but i think any book with a bombed out hole in the wall of a place characters are trying to get into seems to use the phrase "making my own back door" or "making my own entrance" so i think that makes sense, if you can tell that it's a graphic of a bomb.

if that is the case, it shouldn't be the same white as the blueprint, because a bomb wouldn't be in the initial building plans!

and relating this to rjz115dude's comments about making it all blue and white - only the actual layout of the building should be white on blue. one would assume that the robbers making out their plans would use a different (and brighter) colored ink to plot out escape routes and mark the locations of money carts and alarms. that stuff wouldn't be part of the original blueprint.

in my opinion, make all the troop circles, the bomb, the getaway car - everything that isn't part of the bank itself - different colors. and rather than drawing a bomb on the map, maybe a scribble or an arrow where the robbers intend to bust through? overall, i think this is a map that would benefit from less graphics and more text, for authenticity's sake. for example, a dollar sign $ makes more sense to me than a money cart icon. the guns and alarms make sense, i guess, though the alarms look a little funky to me.

this brings up another question i have - is the vault meant to be outside the bank? is the bomb/back door outside? and if so, why is the other back door (which connects to Paddy, Kill, Japs and Slom) open? I've never seen a bank with their entire back wall missing before. it looks like a patio. i also don't know of any banks with external vaults which could be blown up by a bomb. i've watched enough heist movies to know that a bomb is usually used on the vault door itself, cause the four walls, ceiling and floor around the vault are usually encased in a few feet of solid steel. anything that would blow through that is going to blow the whole bank up.

looking at this map some more, i also wonder about security cameras, in addition to the other alarms? maybe you could make one of the ambiguous rooms the 'security/video' control room and require it to be held in addition to the money carts and getaway car? if i was a robber, eliminating the security videos is priority #1.

and finally, where's the damn ATM when you need one?

[lostatlimbo]

looking at this map some more, i also wonder about security cameras, in addition to the other alarms? maybe you could make one of the ambiguous rooms the 'security/video' control room and require it to be held in addition to the money carts and getaway car? if i was a robber, eliminating the security videos is priority #1.

just had another idea:

if you hold the security control room, the guard/alarm territories do not lose any troops? (is this possible with the XML?) I seem to remember playing a map here with similar gameplay, but i cant recall which one.

[a.sub]

looking at this map some more, i also wonder about security cameras, in addition to the other alarms? maybe you could make one of the ambiguous rooms the 'security/video' control room and require it to be held in addition to the money carts and getaway car? if i was a robber, eliminating the security videos is priority #1.

just had another idea:

if you hold the security control room, the guard/alarm territories do not lose any troops? (is this possible with the XML?) I seem to remember playing a map here with similar gameplay, but i cant recall which one.

Supermax prison

[a.sub]

First off, sorry for my absence, i was at the doctor's for something, its all good tho


List of things to do (this is gonna suck )

• rename all
• redraw bomb
• Ponder security camera
• recolor all but building, odds are the army circles wont change
• money carts v.s. $ (think about it)

k so about the security camera, if i do do it, then it will most likely be attackable (that a word?) from all alarms or at least bombarbable (word?) so that the player who holds it just doesnt have to hold a stack on it

[ppgangster]

I am thinking that for the names, if you have tellers and such, you need hostages and it would be well done if they were in the corner somewhere (probably centre left where happy and Murphy are) so as to give you more power (each one could deploy one troop every turn for every two owned - is that too much?)

Also, as for Names, Reservoir Dogs is a good idea, but I don't think you should go with it because of the ownership rights stuff and not everyone has seen the movie. Maybe real names of real gangsters or just make some up like you already suggested - little Mike, Fat Joe, etc.

For the game play, auto-deploy or given to you for the deploy on the carts? Should you own more than 1 before getting more troops? This map will have to be played FOG... So much fun it will be to play on this map!!!

[a.sub]

NAMES FOR GANGSTAS ARE TAKEN VIA PM ONLY

Click image to enlarge.

[oaktown]

i think i am going to have to go with oak and lost@limbo
the names are gimmicky, corny and a cheap way to gain publicity
i will redo the names completely

I don't necessarily think you need to dump the names completely... what I think you need to do is concentrate on making a great map first, then you can play around with putting folks names on the map. My concern in bringing up the gimmicky nature of the names is that right now I think the gameplay remains something of a mess, and I sincerely hope that people aren't overlooking that because they want to see their name appear on a CC map. Iron out the gameplay, and make a map that folks would be proud to see their names on.

[ustus]

as noted by someone else earlier, the bomb graphic shouldn't be part of the blueprint - it's not the bank designer's plan that that wall get blown up

in fact, the bank designers would have worked hard to make it impossible to get in through there... is there any other way to make a second route into the vault?

[reggie_mac]

I think the point of the bomb is not that it is a 'Bank Blueprint' but a 'robber modified' blue print. It adds something to the back story of the map and think it should stay.

[lostatlimbo]

I think the point of the bomb is not that it is a 'Bank Blueprint' but a 'robber modified' blue print. It adds something to the back story of the map and think it should stay.

Blueprints don't work that way - it just doesn't make any sense. Besides, I think the map could use a little more color or at least graphic distinction.

That being said, the explosion is an improvement. I wonder if a name like "Escape Route" or "Explosion" wouldn't further clarify this important territory.

Another thought - for the bomb, getaway car, etc - I wonder if something a little more 3-D would work here. Envision the robbers around the map moving little toy pieces around in making their plans. Something like a Matchbox type car would be good. A stack of dynamite for the bomb?

[lostatlimbo]

k so about the security camera, if i do do it, then it will most likely be attackable (that a word?) from all alarms or at least bombarbable (word?) so that the player who holds it just doesnt have to hold a stack on it

Thats a thought. Maybe bombard-able by any of the robber ("gun") territories?

[ustus]

i would say it attacks any of the alarms... but that's just my thoughts.

as to the bomb, it should be a place circled in some other color than the blueprint basic color, named "bomb site" or some such. tells everyone what it is, and makes it not part of the original blueprint but instead something added by the robbers.

reggie- a blueprint is a piece of paper drawn to plan a building. when you make marks on a blueprint, they don't become a part of it. If i was a robber planning on a blueprint i'd never want my marks to look like part of the blueprint, i'd want them easily distinguishable. You'd have a hard time making them look exactly like the blueprint anyway...it's a complicated schematic drawn on special paper with specific kinds of utensils. I agree the bomb should stay, that's not the point of what i said. what i said is that it should be a different kind of mark then the blueprint, something that looks added after the fact, during planning.

[a.sub]

alright to be honest i think the graphics are pretty good for the stage og the foundry its in
can we concentrate on gameplay?
Alarms should be in places that are important or necessary to cross
Guns should be in out of the way places that people will fight for

[Danyael]

Good job on the name colour makes it very clear

I think the point of the bomb is not that it is a 'Bank Blueprint' but a 'robber modified' blue print. It adds something to the back story of the map and think it should stay.

i was wondering if the map is on a table why not have a small firework in 3d and you could put coins for the carts
just a thougt really

[ustus]

Good job on the name colour makes it very clear

I think the point of the bomb is not that it is a 'Bank Blueprint' but a 'robber modified' blue print. It adds something to the back story of the map and think it should stay.

i was wondering if the map is on a table why not have a small firework in 3d and you could put coins for the carts
just a thought really

I like the coins for carts idea, scattered denominations (I'm thinking 2 dimes, a penny, 2 nickels, and a quarter off the top of my head, though maybe six diff currencies would be better.)... but i think that's a graphics concern... i can't help with gameplay, but i will say having the guns in out-of-the-way places will make them far easier to hold once taken, so having two connections to each gun would be a good idea... that way you can't just take a gun and work your way out to the main path, you also have to hold your gun... but maybe that would be too many things to devote troops to, idk...

[a.sub]

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaameplay



anyhow, i dont think we should have coins on the map, i think it would hurt the image

[lzrman]

Good job on the name colour makes it very clear

I think the point of the bomb is not that it is a 'Bank Blueprint' but a 'robber modified' blue print. It adds something to the back story of the map and think it should stay.

i was wondering if the map is on a table why not have a small firework in 3d and you could put coins for the carts
just a thougt really

We could also try using coins and put them on the table, as "money is on the line" might add to it graphically

[lostatlimbo]

gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaameplay. anyhow, i dont think we should have coins on the map, i think it would hurt the image

I still like the good, ol' money bags - especially since you are playing up the gangster theme. In my mind that equals money bags and tommy guns.



As for gameplay - it sounds like you have some suggestions out there - moving the guns & alarms around, working in a security room in some way... if you start there, more suggestions might come.

I do have one more for you, but you won't like it, cause you'd have to re-draw the whole map.

The biggest element to any bank heist is the shootout with the cops. I think it would be a lot of fun to scale down the building considerably and surround it with cop cars, snipers, etc. They wouldn't be real cop cars, obviously, but where the bank robbers expect them to be situated. The cops on the outside of the building could attack or bombard the guns/gangsters inside and vice versa. Its easy to incorporate this into the theme as well, since a smart robber knows exactly how the police will react to an alarm.

It would be a bit of graphical work to incorporate this, but honestly, i think it needs more to it and i think the bank is just too big right now. Its filled with pointless, non-descript rooms, weird walls and hallways - most of which are filled up with people/territories that have no discernible purpose. Don't get me wrong - I really dig this map, but I think it has a lot more potential.

$.02