Validity of the Bible

[jay_a2j]

There is no hell, there is no Satan, and God doesn't give a crap what you believe in as long as you are believing in something positive for you. All mankind, Christian and Non-Christian alike are destined for Heaven, so just let go of this dumb book already. It's all wrong.

You couldn't be more wrong. The BOLD part is Satan's biggest lie! Look, God laid it all out in black and white. If you choose to reject that, its on you and no one else.

[morph]

There is no hell, there is no Satan, and God doesn't give a crap what you believe in as long as you are believing in something positive for you. All mankind, Christian and Non-Christian alike are destined for Heaven, so just let go of this dumb book already. It's all wrong.

You couldn't be more wrong. The BOLD part is Satan's biggest lie! Look, God laid it all out in black and white. If you choose to reject that, its on you and no one else.

ehm... actually... that is "Gods" laws that were taken by man... bent to their will.... their own personal gains... because men in general are all full of greed, it passed through to many hands, to many times with different translations abound to be correctly considered "Gods" words or law... it has been bent to much and given to a flawed race to many times for it to be perfect and if it was "Gods" words it would indeed be perfect and would not have any doubt into it.. and yet it does...

Jay i do hope you answer to this one, im extreamly interested in your response...

[vtmarik]

All mankind huh? All the rapists, murderers, child molesters, liers, and such should all come to a paradise?

I'll bet you 10 years in purgatory that various convicted murderers who repented and accepted Jesus as their savior before their execution are in heaven right now.

I don't think we are talking about the same heaven then, my friend. I'm pretty sure the heaven I heard about isn't a place they want to go. unfortunately, there aren't a lot of options. You're in heaven, or you aren't. And if you aren't, there is only one place you end up going. Of course, I don't know if it's true, because I have never been killed before, so I don't know what it after. If you guys are right, then we all go to nothing afterwards, no loss for anyone. hooray. Life is a joke. If I'm right, then a few of us go to heaven, live for an eternity with an amazing being, while the rest go down to a place of eternal torture. mmm. Isn't that appealing?

Don't lump me in with the "we just rot in the ground" crowd. If I'm right, then we all go to some form of paradise or we're reincarnated and we start the ride all over again. To answer the famous question "When you go to heaven, what would you like to hear God say to you?" I say "Game Over. Insert Coin?"

And, yes, God has more than one emotion. Don't you think the God who MADE emotions might just have some? He is a loving God, but also a just God. Being just doesn't mean 'oh, you walked all over me, but that's okay.' So, God has vengence, and it will one day be released (yes, I'm trying to scare all of you who don't care into thinking God is going to come and smite you. I'll get that out there before you say that is what I'm saying.). He is just, so he can judge. We aren't, so we can't, but we try anyway. Apparently, those who judge will be judged as they judged others. No room for hipocrisy in heaven.

So a God who is omnipotent and has the power of creation at his fingertips is going to concern himself with the picayune, day-to-day idiocies of the very creatures he created?

Next you'll be telling me that he has every episode of "One Day At A Time" on some celestial TiVo.

God is going to smite me? Why? Because I don't put my faith in God through some book which is at best a gross misinterpretation of events and at worst a propaganda piece by an ancient group of religious theorists? I'd rather take my chances by ignoring the text and believing in God in the way that seems correct to me. Jesus did say not to pray in public, because those who pray and proclaim their faith in public are hypocrites 9 times out of 10.

But, God isn't followed out of fear. Out of awe, yes. The old testament required a law. People needed to stick to this law. People feared God back then because he didn't let priests do whatever they wanted. They had to serve him. Otherwise...he fired them. But God sent his son, his only son, to die for us on the cross. This ties into how God is just. The law required that an unblemished lamb be sacrificed to cleanse the people of their sins. That's why sometimes Jesus is sometimes called the lamb who was slain. He came and lived in a human body, for about thirty three years. Then he died a murderers death, for committing no murder. He died for sins he never committed. Those were ours. Those were mine.

Ah, so where did the term "God-fearing Christian" come from then? And if it is antiquated, why is it still in use?

God kills his son's mortal form and that's just? Sure, it's noble, but it isn't just. A just God would've found a way around the bloodshed rule, since he created it and all. One death for a trillion lives is plenty noble, but it's not just. That being said, I'd gladly die to protect my family, but that is a conscious choice that I will make if and when the time comes. Jesus didn't choose his fate, he simply followed the road that was laid out for him. It is the ultimate lesson of what free will is and what it is not. Free will is the ability to look God in the face and say "I'll do what you want, but I'm going to find a better way."

The law had now been fulfilled, and that's why animals are not scarificed for our sins anymore.

This Thread was originally intended to be about the validity of the Bible. This is it. If Jesus never was, then the Bible is nothing more than a book of fairytales. That is the point of the book. That is the intended story. Of how God sent his son to die for us so we can live with him. That is also what Christianity is supposed to be centered on.

Tell me, why does it have to involve a diety to inspire people to live better lives. Aesop never needed a God to teach his lessons, but he managed to do it.

That being said, I do believe that God is possible. As possible as No-God and Multiple Gods. Thus I believe in all possibilities rather than limiting myself to only one. Why must we force ourselves to climb only one mountain when we can traverse them all at once?

I believe it was Jack Kerouac who said, "You can never fall off a mountain."

It might be off at times, but things are easier to change from the inside out.

Tell that to Martin Luther, the Puritans, and the founders of the Rhode Island colony.

You couldn't be more wrong. The BOLD part is Satan's biggest lie! Look, God laid it all out in black and white. If you choose to reject that, its on you and no one else.

Or maybe the existence of Satan is a lie? Think about this, if Satan was truly as devious and able to twist beliefs as he is purported to be, who's to say that he isn't capable of fooling a massive group of people into surrendering their God-given consciousness and free will to structured belief systems that rob you of your security and individuality.

And if somehow Satan has twisted my mind into believing some lie, what proof exists? The Bible says that anyone who says the Bible is wrong has been tricked by Satan. That's very convenient isn't it? Having a catch-all argument to discredit anybody who calls the book into question.

"The Bible is bunk."
"Those are Satan's lies that you're being fooled by, it's proven right here in The Bible."

Think about this, and I believe I said this in the infancy of the Logic Dictates thread:
If Satan is stopped by the holy power of God, then how can Satan use God's word, the holy scripture to further his own goals?

[Backglass]

If you guys are right, then we all go to nothing afterwards, no loss for anyone. hooray. Life is a joke.

Why would life be a joke? I seem to hear this a lot from the thumpers...that if it all turned out to be a bunch of hooey, that life wouldnt be worth living. I dont get that at all.

And it would be a loss. Loss of a life that could have been devoted to this PLANET and it's people instead of a fantasy. I for one wouldnt want to find out at the end that I wasted my life on fairy tales.

Why do you so desperatley need to believe in something? What would change if you found out today it wasnt true? Would you suddenly stop loving your wife & kids? Stop enjoying a ball game or good book? Stop having a beer with the boys or a date out with your wife? Would you suddenly go crazy and start raping & killing? Or just slit your wrists to get it over with.

If I'm right, then a few of us go to heaven, live for an eternity with an amazing being, while the rest go down to a place of eternal torture. mmm. Isn't that appealing?

Yes, so is Disneyworld but it isnt real.

The whole concept of ONE DAY all the good people just happily ever after in a big happy commune just sounds incredibly silly. First, why would a GOD want sit around with trillions of gawking worshipers? Just to chat and have tea FOREVER? And if that's the goal...why didnt he just make heaven and populate it with worshipers to begin with? ISNT HE IN CONTROL? Would someoneplease tell me WHY THE WAITING GAME?

I am curious...Do you believe because it sounds so nice? Or because you really think it all exists. If we are going to believe such things, I would rather believe in the 47 veiled virgins waiting for me.

And, yes, God has more than one emotion. Don't you think the God who MADE emotions might just have some?

I suppose, but it wouldnt be very god-like now would it. Does god get horny too?

He is a loving God, but also a just God. Being just doesn't mean 'oh, you walked all over me, but that's okay.' So, God has vengence, and it will one day be released.

Why some day? Why the wait? Why not get it over with a few thousand years ago? WHAT IS HE WAITING FOR? HE'S A GOD!

No room for hipocrisy in heaven.

But PLENTY of room around here.

But, God isn't followed out of fear. Out of awe, yes. The old testament required a law. People needed to stick to this law. People feared God back then because he didn't let priests do whatever they wanted. They had to serve him. Otherwise...he fired them. But God sent his son, his only son, blah blah blah...SNORE

OK OK OK! YOU DRANK THE KOOL-AID. WE GET IT. But you see, re-telling the glory-story doesnt sink in when you think it's just a story book.

If Jesus never was, then the Bible is nothing more than a book of fairytales.

Well, you are half right. And what would be so horribly wrong with that. No hell. No demons. No satan. No fiery furnace. Is that so bad?

Of course no holier than though finger pointing and high-horse preaching either. Maybe thats it.

[morph]

from what i just heard on the national geographic channel, they just found scrolls that are talking of Jesus's youth and how he was with a bunch of different women, and that from those scrolls he was never actually crucified...

[vtmarik]

from what i just heard on the national geographic channel, they just found scrolls that are talking of Jesus's youth and how he was with a bunch of different women, and that from those scrolls he was never actually crucified...

Yeah, but A) they aren't in the Bible and B) carbon dating is unreliable, so they're all lies and heresy.

[lesnud]

Why do you so desperatley need to believe in something? What would change if you found out today it wasnt true? Would you suddenly stop loving your wife & kids? Stop enjoying a ball game or good book? Stop having a beer with the boys or a date out with your wife? Would you suddenly go crazy and start raping & killing? Or just slit your wrists to get it over with.

If I didn't have anything to beleive in, what's to stop me from doing whatever I wanted? Would I obey the laws to serve my country? Shouldn't my country be there for me? I don't actually know why so many people would not believe anything and then not go do whatever they wanted.

And yeah, I know that story is old. But that's all I have. I don't know enough to debate much. Maybe that makes me blind and stupid. Say God doesn't exist. What's so wrong in the idea?

[vtmarik]

If I didn't have anything to beleive in, what's to stop me from doing whatever I wanted? Would I obey the laws to serve my country? Shouldn't my country be there for me? I don't actually know why so many people would not believe anything and then not go do whatever they wanted.

Are you saying that without a belief in God, a person's ethics automagically cease to exist? I know plenty of atheists who are very good people by Christian standards.

And on the subject of your last questions, I honestly have no idea where the genesis of those concepts came from, could you perhaps decipher your sentences for me?

And yeah, I know that story is old. But that's all I have. I don't know enough to debate much. Maybe that makes me blind and stupid. Say God doesn't exist. What's so wrong in the idea?

You have more than just a book, you have a brain and you have the capacity to use that brain. Go out and read everything you can, learn the other paths that exist, and know that by accepting other ideas that you aren't replacing your original one.

You can be a Christian Buddhist Wiccan if you want, just because the Church doesn't believe in multiplicity doesn't mean that they're right.

Here's a good starting place.
http://www.uua.org

The Bible's got some good lessons, but they aren't the only lessons worth learning. Don't forget that.

[heavycola]

If I didn't have anything to beleive in, what's to stop me from doing whatever I wanted?

Or look at it from another perspective: Why do followers of organised religion believe they have a monopoly on morality?

[MeDeFe]

If I didn't have anything to beleive in, what's to stop me from doing whatever I wanted?

There is this thing called reason. You've got a mind to think with, just use it and you'll see. There's plenty of reasons for behaving in a moral way. And probably dozens of different apporcahes that show how and why that works. Reading up on Immanuel Kant and John Stuart Mill would be a good start imo.

[Skittlesandmnms]

If I didn't have anything to beleive in, what's to stop me from doing whatever I wanted? Would I obey the laws to serve my country? Shouldn't my country be there for me? I don't actually know why so many people would not believe anything and then not go do whatever they wanted.

Are you saying that without a belief in God, a person's ethics automagically cease to exist? I know plenty of atheists who are very good people by Christian standards.

And on the subject of your last questions, I honestly have no idea where the genesis of those concepts came from, could you perhaps decipher your sentences for me?

And yeah, I know that story is old. But that's all I have. I don't know enough to debate much. Maybe that makes me blind and stupid. Say God doesn't exist. What's so wrong in the idea?

You have more than just a book, you have a brain and you have the capacity to use that brain. Go out and read everything you can, learn the other paths that exist, and know that by accepting other ideas that you aren't replacing your original one.

You can be a Christian Buddhist Wiccan if you want, just because the Church doesn't believe in multiplicity doesn't mean that they're right.

Here's a good starting place.
http://www.uua.org

The Bible's got some good lessons, but they aren't the only lessons worth learning. Don't forget that.

i agree completely.

im not saying there arent some athiests out there who are total assholes, but alot of them are really nice. you can't say someone has no morals because they don't believe in any god... thats a prejudice just as bad as any other.

[jay_a2j]

There is no hell, there is no Satan, and God doesn't give a crap what you believe in as long as you are believing in something positive for you. All mankind, Christian and Non-Christian alike are destined for Heaven, so just let go of this dumb book already. It's all wrong.

You couldn't be more wrong. The BOLD part is Satan's biggest lie! Look, God laid it all out in black and white. If you choose to reject that, its on you and no one else.

ehm... actually... that is "Gods" laws that were taken by man... bent to their will.... their own personal gains... because men in general are all full of greed, it passed through to many hands, to many times with different translations abound to be correctly considered "Gods" words or law... it has been bent to much and given to a flawed race to many times for it to be perfect and if it was "Gods" words it would indeed be perfect and would not have any doubt into it.. and yet it does...

Jay i do hope you answer to this one, im extreamly interested in your response...

Do you think God would give his word to man and allow them to "bend" it? As imperfect as man is, God is perfect. He would not allow man to screw up his Word. The Word is perfect, without flaw. As far as understanding Gods word, man has studied it for some 2000 years and still cannot grasp all that is in it. God if far supierior to man. Just as Moses requested to see God's face, God could not allow it because the glory of God would have killed him. To say Gods word is flawed, is to say God isn't that bright, that He would give his word to man who would turn around and mess it up.

[jay_a2j]

WHAT IS HE WAITING FOR? HE'S A GOD!

He's waiting for the last man who will accept Him, to do it. Maybe you are that one backglass. The Earth will be a very unpleasent place during the 7 year tribulation. (Gods wrath) You don't have to be here for it!

[heavycola]

(Gods wrath)

For god so loved the world...


that he caused rivers to run with blood and let a monster with seven heads terrorise everyone. Then he slaughtered everyone who didn't believe in him.


I think if we have figured out anything in these threads it is that belief is not a choice. You either do believe, or you read lots and think and become enlightened and stop believing

Either way, it's not a choice. Which is why the fairytale rubbish about tribulations, sheep v goats etc is fundamentally flawed. How can i choose to believe in something? How do i make that choice? (NB jay these are rhetorical questions). It's not like deciding which kitchen paper to buy, or what road to take.
Or put it this way - jay, could you choose to believe in Santa Claus? Think how happy that belief would make you. So choose it.

Belief in the xtian god looks good to me, in some ways - eternal life, mostly. But I just don't believe. So why is God going to punish me?
Either he proves he exists and i believe, or I don't.

[salvadevinemasse]

There is no hell, there is no Satan, and God doesn't give a crap what you believe in as long as you are believing in something positive for you. All mankind, Christian and Non-Christian alike are destined for Heaven, so just let go of this dumb book already. It's all wrong.

You couldn't be more wrong. The BOLD part is Satan's biggest lie! Look, God laid it all out in black and white. If you choose to reject that, its on you and no one else.

ehm... actually... that is "Gods" laws that were taken by man... bent to their will.... their own personal gains... because men in general are all full of greed, it passed through to many hands, to many times with different translations abound to be correctly considered "Gods" words or law... it has been bent to much and given to a flawed race to many times for it to be perfect and if it was "Gods" words it would indeed be perfect and would not have any doubt into it.. and yet it does...

Jay i do hope you answer to this one, im extreamly interested in your response...

Do you think God would give his word to man and allow them to "bend" it? As imperfect as man is, God is perfect. He would not allow man to screw up his Word. The Word is perfect, without flaw. As far as understanding Gods word, man has studied it for some 2000 years and still cannot grasp all that is in it. God if far supierior to man. Just as Moses requested to see God's face, God could not allow it because the glory of God would have killed him. To say Gods word is flawed, is to say God isn't that bright, that He would give his word to man who would turn around and mess it up.

Jay-
Why can't god come back again as a burning bush? Moses did just fine with that, why can't god do an interview as a burning bush? It can be braodcasted on CNN or some station like ABC. maybe this is a barbara walters interview or an oprah winfrey one? I think that would be about right! Till god proves that it exists why should we really believe in it? Him or her I dont care or no gender at all..my point is god needs to come do an interview to get more believers till then not everyone will believe! Then and only then can we find out if the mormons are really the true religion or not.. (Yes that is a south park reference..) we are supposed to be "gods children" right? Well in this case isnt this child neglect? He cant possibly watch all of us,maybe he should put it away for a while till he can watch us better!? Maybe god should get fixed? hehehehe
well I'm going to get going..
Salva-

[Backglass]

Why can't god come back again as a burning bush? Moses did just fine with that, why can't god do an interview as a burning bush?

Because that would be too easy. Evidetly it is very difficult for gods to talk to us. It takes a great deal of emotion and smoking nostrils. Either that or it's the giant rat-maze again.

[areon]

And yeah, I know that story is old. But that's all I have. I don't know enough to debate much. Maybe that makes me blind and stupid. Say God doesn't exist. What's so wrong in the idea?

The problem is when people feel alright to treat nonbelievers of their religion poorly. This isn't a Christian only problem.

atheism =/= hedenism o vulgarianism o narccicism

Life isn't an either or choice. And there are a lot of prominent scholars who ARE religious, enlightened thought doesn't lead to a distrust in God.

[vtmarik]

Do you think God would give his word to man and allow them to "bend" it? As imperfect as man is, God is perfect. He would not allow man to screw up his Word.

One of the last promises left by the Son of God before he left was:

Whatever you hold true on earth, I'll hold true in heaven.

Dogmatic law, if the Church says it's so then God must adhere.

But don't give up Jay, please try again.

The Word is perfect, without flaw. As far as understanding Gods word, man has studied it for some 2000 years and still cannot grasp all that is in it. God if far supierior to man. Just as Moses requested to see God's face, God could not allow it because the glory of God would have killed him. To say Gods word is flawed, is to say God isn't that bright, that He would give his word to man who would turn around and mess it up.

Well who could He give it to? We're the only animals capable of writing stuff, let alone higher thinking. Yes God is superior to man, which is why I wonder why he didn't just give us the word rather than telling these several people to pass the word along to us.

Ever play 'Telephone' when you were a kid? The sentence starts out as "Jerry says Hi" and it turns into something weirder still like "Berries get you high." When someone tells us what Jesus said, it's just like any other eyewitness report, for every witness there's going to be a different version, which is why "Bible Contradictions"-type pages exist in the first place.

Take a look at the genealogies in Luke and Matthew. They link Jesus' descending from David through Joseph, yet everyone else knows that Joseph isn't Jesus' biological father, so he couldn't be descended from David. Why is it that these two disagree with everyone else?

Probably because they were looking for an earthly link to the prophecies of the Messiah. They either didn't know about (Luke) or believe in (Matthew) the concept of the virgin birth.

[Backglass]

Maybe that makes me blind and stupid.

I do not think the religious are stupid people (well ok...some are ) but rather mislead into a believing a fantastic fantasy. Evidently they have an emptiness inside that religion fills...it makes them feel like their life means something. Rituals bring comfort to some. I also believe that deep inside, these people are terrified of death. They need these things in order to come to grips with the finality of life...the fact that YES, this IS all there is. Live life, love life for TODAY. You cant enjoy life when your dead!

I also believe that MANY (if not MOST) churchgoers think of it as an insurance policy. They really dont buy into the stories, but figure "Hey, whats it going to hurt and it does sound nice", plus it looks good to the family & neighbors. It makes them feel like good people...living right.

Some dont need gods to make them feel like life has meaning. I for example have a beautiful wife, awesome kids, good job and live in one of the greatest countries on the planet. THAT is what makes my life great...not the fantasy of some eternal club-med.

Say God doesn't exist. What's so wrong in the idea?

I would say nothing at all. Just look around you if you want to see what it's like.

Ever play 'Telephone' when you were a kid? The sentence starts out as "Jerry says Hi" and it turns into something weirder still like "Berries get you high." When someone tells us what Jesus said, it's just like any other eyewitness report, for every witness there's going to be a different version, which is why "Bible Contradictions"-type pages exist in the first place.

Now add to that a 2000 YEAR OLD game of telephone in multiple languages, being re-written and translated along the way. Not to mention altered by those with an axe to grind or for political reasons.

To think that it is exactly the same as the day it was written is just foolish.

[vtmarik]

Ever play 'Telephone' when you were a kid? The sentence starts out as "Jerry says Hi" and it turns into something weirder still like "Berries get you high." When someone tells us what Jesus said, it's just like any other eyewitness report, for every witness there's going to be a different version, which is why "Bible Contradictions"-type pages exist in the first place.

Now add to that a 2000 YEAR OLD game of telephone in multiple languages, being re-written and translated along the way. Not to mention altered by those with an axe to grind or for political reasons.

To think that it is exactly the same as the day it was written is just foolish.

Yeah, so you've got 12 different accounts of what happened, some of which match in places and some that don't match. Then you've got 2000 years of translating, retranslating, changing the language, and then printing different versions of the same text that have slightly different syntaxes. Not exactly the most airtight of arguments.

[morph]

There is no hell, there is no Satan, and God doesn't give a crap what you believe in as long as you are believing in something positive for you. All mankind, Christian and Non-Christian alike are destined for Heaven, so just let go of this dumb book already. It's all wrong.

You couldn't be more wrong. The BOLD part is Satan's biggest lie! Look, God laid it all out in black and white. If you choose to reject that, its on you and no one else.

ehm... actually... that is "Gods" laws that were taken by man... bent to their will.... their own personal gains... because men in general are all full of greed, it passed through to many hands, to many times with different translations abound to be correctly considered "Gods" words or law... it has been bent to much and given to a flawed race to many times for it to be perfect and if it was "Gods" words it would indeed be perfect and would not have any doubt into it.. and yet it does...

Jay i do hope you answer to this one, im extreamly interested in your response...

Do you think God would give his word to man and allow them to "bend" it? As imperfect as man is, God is perfect. He would not allow man to screw up his Word. The Word is perfect, without flaw. As far as understanding Gods word, man has studied it for some 2000 years and still cannot grasp all that is in it. God if far supierior to man. Just as Moses requested to see God's face, God could not allow it because the glory of God would have killed him. To say Gods word is flawed, is to say God isn't that bright, that He would give his word to man who would turn around and mess it up.

God, your god may be perfect, but man is not, im not saying god isint bright im saying the people that took his word (going off of the basis that god exists) is flawed and this is where i try to control my anger and rage so i will make sense

people bend "gods" word all the time, my friend MY FRIEND! was beaten with a baseball bat by her mother, for being "full of sin" she was drowned in a tub full of ice water BECAUSE the mother took "the word of god" and bent it to mean that she has to punish her daughter for being "full of sin" gave her daughter a choice between being beaten with a bat or burning her hands on the stove for being "full of sin" because of the belief in your god.... she had internal bleeding, collapsed in school, sent to the hospital, when she woke up she told them to let her bleed, my friend Jay has been hurt and mentally fucked up because of her mother, who like you believes in god... and likely like most back then, bent the "word of god" to make it mean something else..... you are essentially saying that "God" would not allow it to be bent... well prove me wrong of that fact....

[vtmarik]

God, your god may be perfect, but man is not, im not saying god isint bright im saying the people that took his word (going off of the basis that god exists) is flawed and this is where i try to control my anger and rage so i will make sense

people bend "gods" word all the time, my friend MY FRIEND! was beaten with a baseball bat by her mother, for being "full of sin" she was drowned in a tub full of ice water BECAUSE the mother took "the word of god" and bent it to mean that she has to punish her daughter for being "full of sin" gave her daughter a choice between being beaten with a bat or burning her hands on the stove for being "full of sin" because of the belief in your god.... she had internal bleeding, collapsed in school, sent to the hospital, when she woke up she told them to let her bleed, my friend Jay has been hurt and mentally fucked up because of her mother, who like you believes in god... and likely like most back then, bent the "word of god" to make it mean something else..... you are essentially saying that "God" would not allow it to be bent... well prove me wrong of that fact....

Do you know what sentence she got at the trial?

[lesnud]

If I didn't have anything to beleive in, what's to stop me from doing whatever I wanted? Would I obey the laws to serve my country? Shouldn't my country be there for me? I don't actually know why so many people would not believe anything and then not go do whatever they wanted.

Are you saying that without a belief in God, a person's ethics automagically cease to exist? I know plenty of atheists who are very good people by Christian standards.

And on the subject of your last questions, I honestly have no idea where the genesis of those concepts came from, could you perhaps decipher your sentences for me?

And yeah, I know that story is old. But that's all I have. I don't know enough to debate much. Maybe that makes me blind and stupid. Say God doesn't exist. What's so wrong in the idea?

You have more than just a book, you have a brain and you have the capacity to use that brain. Go out and read everything you can, learn the other paths that exist, and know that by accepting other ideas that you aren't replacing your original one.

You can be a Christian Buddhist Wiccan if you want, just because the Church doesn't believe in multiplicity doesn't mean that they're right.

Here's a good starting place.
http://www.uua.org

The Bible's got some good lessons, but they aren't the only lessons worth learning. Don't forget that.

i agree completely.

im not saying there arent some athiests out there who are total assholes, but alot of them are really nice. you can't say someone has no morals because they don't believe in any god... thats a prejudice just as bad as any other.

Hee hee. I agree too, to the most part. There are lots of nice people out there. And not all are religous. In fact, most people are probably nicer then the religous people. It wasn't meant to make out that people have no morals if they don't believe in God. My apologies. I just don't know if I would have any. The world would be my playground, to make into any game I wanted. Because, when the game is over, there is nothing more to lose. Other people probably have a more rational sense of reality.

And to you vtmarik, I don't really decipher what I say. Sorry. It bugs my friends too. And your right. I have more than a book. And I do read. Reading is great. Sometimes I go around to bookstores and look at the books. MY book, I know it's old, but everytime I read it, I find something I never found before. And just like any other book, you can't read it without questioning it to test to whether or not it passes. If it's fiction, sure. Anything flies. But...yeah.

[cowshrptrn]

You can think of it as realising you can respect society and the values that have been instiled by society withouting thinking that theres someone who will smite you if you don't. So long as you value living in a society that's kept orderly by rules the world won't fall into anarchy becaue there is no religion.

[vtmarik]

Hee hee. I agree too, to the most part. There are lots of nice people out there. And not all are religous. In fact, most people are probably nicer then the religous people. It wasn't meant to make out that people have no morals if they don't believe in God. My apologies. I just don't know if I would have any. The world would be my playground, to make into any game I wanted. Because, when the game is over, there is nothing more to lose. Other people probably have a more rational sense of reality.

And to you vtmarik, I don't really decipher what I say. Sorry. It bugs my friends too. And your right. I have more than a book. And I do read. Reading is great. Sometimes I go around to bookstores and look at the books. MY book, I know it's old, but everytime I read it, I find something I never found before. And just like any other book, you can't read it without questioning it to test to whether or not it passes. If it's fiction, sure. Anything flies. But...yeah.

No man, I can dig it. Sorry to come down on you like that, I was just riding on the crest of the arguing phase.

On your first point, I'm sure you would keep the same morals. A paradigm shift doesn't take away from what you had before, it's just integrating new data into what you've always been. Sure, it's not easy but then again nothing is supposed to be easy. If it was easy, no one would grow.

And who's to say the idea of you making your own path and world is a bad thing, it might be good for you. Once you can sort of step out of the shackles of the repetition and the indoctrination, and you stare into the open sky for the first time it's very overwhelming. But there are others who've done the same, and if your path takes you to meet them then you're golden.

And you don't have to decipher anything, I was just having trouble trying to understand your phraseology. But you know what, don't worry about it. I'm sure it'll come to me sometime later on tonight.

Les, just go with what seems like a good plan. Stick with what you got, or go out and find more, the ball's in your court.