what is wrong with american politics

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Iliad
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Iliad »

gdeangel wrote:Let's recap the "recent decent" of the American political debate...

0) Bill Clinton defeats George Bush, whose tax increases and spending cuts put the country back on track after years of Reagan's "binge" economics. Bill Clinton does so by being young, charismatic, appearing on MTV, and playing the saxophone.

1) George Bush beats Al Gore (and McCain in the primary) by hawking his "good old boy" charm on the sliver haired Jesus crowd.

2) George Bush beats Al Gore through the support of the same "silver hairs", along with the military supporters who are reacting to the resurgence of 1970's "war is evil" idiocy which leftist talking-heads have found appeal with to hawk their books and news "exposes", and which, despite a very deliberate effort, Mr. Kerry and the democrats are unsuccessful in distancing themselves from.

3) Barack Obama runs a "feel good" primary, and the rank and file voters fall in line for the primary.

4) John McCain goes toe-to-toe at Obama's level to challenge his "broad consensus" as elitist and out of touch.

Now all of a sudden we've descended into "fluff" politics? My fellow American chumps, it's been that way for a long time, going all the way back to Kennedy (who nearly got the country blown up because of missiles in Cuba... sound like anything that's going on now in with Russia and the interceptor bases??) Nixon got a famous bump from talking about his little dog "Checkers".

The bottom line, in a large country where people have to vote for candidates that they have no personal knowledge of, and where there is no "official" state propaganda and intimidation, people will by a large margin, pick the candidate that they can identify with. So Obama's little "pig" comment about Palin (quite a different usage than reference to a policy) cuts to the quick at the decision criteria people make. Nobody wants to identify with a pig. Very few people want to identify with a neo-nazi pit-bull dog. These are the lowest form of political attack. They are dumbing down what is already a "choice not on the issues" to the level of a popularity contest on the grade school playground. McCain and Palin have a right to take issue. Referring, even indirectly, to a woman as a pig (meaning she is fat and undesirable) is very different than calling "big oil" pigs (i.e., insatiable appetite for profits), or calling a guy a pig (meaning he is someone who objectifies women as sexual objects). From a bunch of third graders you expect to hear people saying: don't pick Sara to the team captain... she's fat and ugly. But, even though American's may not understand how to balance a check book, let alone evaluate economic stimulus proposals, they do sometimes take note of offensive behavior.

If Obama wants to get by this one, he will have to make a public apology. But for a man whose base idolize him, that is not without it's own risks. So he's testing the waters... just like he did before he denounced Farakan publicly. You watch. By this time tomorrow, he won't be talking about "the silly party of the campaign season"... he'll be saying "I sincerely apologize to Governor Palin for any offense she took personally from what was intended as a general figure of speech about my opponent's campaign."
First of all explain the "idiocy"
Second of all how at all was obama's comment about palin? It had absolutely nothing to do with it. Palin says something about lipstick so now all sayings with the word lipstick will be about her. Which makes you a hypocrite
gdeangel wrote:When it became politically incorrect to do anything that might hurt your enemies other than (1) killing them on the open battlefield and (2) taking away their "freedom" by putting them in a 8x10 room with a bed and toilet, you ended up with a no-win situation - the bad guys just find ways to avoid getting caught out on the open battlefield, and we can't hold the ones we catch in 8x10 rooms forever.

America hides behind its air and naval dominance but that cannot do much when civilians are mixed in with the bad guys unless we drop some of our pretenses about "moral" war. War is hell. To try to deny that fact - to try to make soldiers act like police - is just like "putting lipstick on a pig".

But let's face it, even if it every came to a shit kicking contest on the open battle field, China would win. They outnumber us 3 to 1 (more like 5 to 1 if you peek into the demographic composition of the two populations ATM) and they have the weaponry and centralized infrastructure to do it. We need to start recruiting India of we are screwed.


Ouch
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by kletka »

pimpdave wrote: Also, it's all France's fault somehow. Generally, everything is France's is fault, but this time it's really true.


It is hard to disagree. Since these pimpheads invaded us, brits in 1066, the things started going from bad to worse.... :(
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by jiminski »

Jenos Ridan wrote:
b.k. barunt wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:

HC, you seem to have no problem tells us Americans what to do, but if anyone thinks to question how your nation works you practically fly off the handle.

Upon conculting the dictionary, I found the word I was searching for; hypocrite. As in you are a hypocritical, pompass limey twit.

Have a nice day.


Speaking of hypocrites . . . Hello Pot.


Honibaz


In what way am I a hypocrite? ....



heh not wishing to spoil Bk's fun in his own defence.. but i think, and this is just my opinion, that all the evidence you seek is in the above posts.

if you genuinely need me to explain i will.
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by jonesthecurl »

Jenos Ridan wrote:

HC, you seem to have no problem tells us Americans what to do, but if anyone thinks to question how your nation works you practically fly off the handle.



I have to say (and I could be wrong, it can happen) that I wasn't particularly aware of HC ever flying off the handle in defence of his nation. Did I miss something?
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Snorri1234 »

jonesthecurl wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:

HC, you seem to have no problem tells us Americans what to do, but if anyone thinks to question how your nation works you practically fly off the handle.



I have to say (and I could be wrong, it can happen) that I wasn't particularly aware of HC ever flying off the handle in defence of his nation. Did I miss something?


Did you miss all those posts about how Blair was a saint?
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by jonesthecurl »

Must have been before I got here.

Here's something I said when someone asked me to help out with the kids football* practise -
" Putting me in charge of football is like putting Blair in charge of socialism - I don't like it, I don't understand it, and you'd only regret it when I ruined it for everyone else".




*this was in England, so there's no need to repeat the "that's not football" discussion. US types call this game "soccer".
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Skittles! »

Is the UK a socialist state? :?

EDIT- this may seem as a very stupid question, but in all honesty, I don't know and I want to know.
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by gdeangel »

Iliad wrote:
gdeangel wrote:When it became politically incorrect to do anything that might hurt your enemies other than (1) killing them on the open battlefield and (2) taking away their "freedom" by putting them in a 8x10 room with a bed and toilet, you ended up with a no-win situation - the bad guys just find ways to avoid getting caught out on the open battlefield, and we can't hold the ones we catch in 8x10 rooms forever.

America hides behind its air and naval dominance but that cannot do much when civilians are mixed in with the bad guys unless we drop some of our pretenses about "moral" war. War is hell. To try to deny that fact - to try to make soldiers act like police - is just like "putting lipstick on a pig".

But let's face it, even if it every came to a shit kicking contest on the open battle field, China would win. They outnumber us 3 to 1 (more like 5 to 1 if you peek into the demographic composition of the two populations ATM) and they have the weaponry and centralized infrastructure to do it. We need to start recruiting India of we are screwed.


Ouch


That quotation in the other post was deliberate friend. It was making a point. I'm sure you thought a lot about it before your love of Obama took over and you ran over here half-cocked to wave it around. Why don't you think about how saying "lipstick on a pig" about the US army would be interpretty in the general context of a discussion of police power, versus, say, if someone made that comment a few days after intense publicity and criticism of Jessica Lynch or, for that matter, even Lynndie England (you can google it if you don't know who she is). Next time, think a little before you post shit.
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b.k. barunt
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by b.k. barunt »

jiminski wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:
b.k. barunt wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:

HC, you seem to have no problem tells us Americans what to do, but if anyone thinks to question how your nation works you practically fly off the handle.

Upon conculting the dictionary, I found the word I was searching for; hypocrite. As in you are a hypocritical, pompass limey twit.

Have a nice day.


Speaking of hypocrites . . . Hello Pot.


Honibaz


In what way am I a hypocrite? ....



heh not wishing to spoil Bk's fun in his own defence.. but i think, and this is just my opinion, that all the evidence you seek is in the above posts.

if you genuinely need me to explain i will.


Actually i was reminiscing about bygone days when he proved to be (in my humble opinion) the most blatantly hypocritical member of the obnoxious CC "Jesus Freaks". I wouldn't have brought it up, but to see that cheesewanker call someone else a hypocrite gives me a case of the red ass. Imagine that.


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Thor Son of Olaf
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Thor Son of Olaf »

b.k. barunt wrote:
jiminski wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:
b.k. barunt wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:

HC, you seem to have no problem tells us Americans what to do, but if anyone thinks to question how your nation works you practically fly off the handle.

Upon conculting the dictionary, I found the word I was searching for; hypocrite. As in you are a hypocritical, pompass limey twit.

Have a nice day.


Speaking of hypocrites . . . Hello Pot.


Honibaz


In what way am I a hypocrite? ....



heh not wishing to spoil Bk's fun in his own defence.. but i think, and this is just my opinion, that all the evidence you seek is in the above posts.

if you genuinely need me to explain i will.


Actually i was reminiscing about bygone days when he proved to be (in my humble opinion) the most blatantly hypocritical member of the obnoxious CC "Jesus Freaks". I wouldn't have brought it up, but to see that cheesewanker call someone else a hypocrite gives me a case of the red ass. Imagine that.


Honibaz


I might not hold the man's jewish beliefs, but by Odin I'll not let you sully the man's name you miserable pig-fucker! If you have a greviance with him, air it, don't make snide remarks from the corners like some gutless worm.
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Jenos Ridan »

Thor, I don't need you leaping on every creep who talks crap about me. Why you're doing it at all is a mystery to me.

Anyway.....

b.k. barunt:

In what why am I a hypocrite? I've asked you once politely, so where is you answer?
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Snorri1234 »

Wait, why is Thor speaking against b.k. in favour of Jenos?


Are there multiple levels of sarcasm I'm not getting or something?
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Dancing Mustard »

Jenos Ridan wrote:b.k. barunt:

In what why am I a hypocrite? I've asked you once politely, so where is you answer?

BK fucking said you were, so you fucking are. You understand me?

Don't get all doubting of his almighty wisdom and benevolence; compared to his senior counsel you are but a mental tadpole. He wins debates versus you simply by virtue of him being him and you being you. Relent, yield and surrender. It is over, he has won and scavengers are free to pick clean your sun-bleached bones as they lie shattered in the ashes of this ravaged field.

BK rules you.

You lose.


Hypocrite.



Goodbye.
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by heavycola »

Jenos Ridan wrote:Thor, I don't need you leaping on every creep who talks crap about me. Why you're doing it at all is a mystery to me.

Anyway.....

b.k. barunt:

In what why am I a hypocrite? I've asked you once politely, so where is you answer?


What is the enormous phallus doing in the bottom left corner of your avatar? Pointing at you, it would seem.
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Jenos Ridan »

heavycola wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:Thor, I don't need you leaping on every creep who talks crap about me. Why you're doing it at all is a mystery to me.

Anyway.....

b.k. barunt:

In what why am I a hypocrite? I've asked you once politely, so where is you answer?


What is the enormous phallus doing in the bottom left corner of your avatar? Pointing at you, it would seem.


Upon closer inspection, it appears to be a partial view of a hand, giving the "devil's horns" hand sign that is a sample of rock and metal signage.
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Jenos Ridan »

Dancing Mustard wrote:
Jenos Ridan wrote:b.k. barunt:

In what way am I a hypocrite? I've asked you once politely, so where is you answer?

BK fucking said you were, so you fucking are. You understand me?



Dancing Mustard wrote:Don't get all doubting of his almighty wisdom and benevolence; compared to his senior counsel you are but a mental tadpole.


Pfff...........

I'll doubt the wisdom of any man if the wisdom in question strikes me as foolishness.

Dancing Mustard wrote: He wins debates versus you simply by virtue of him being him and you being you. Relent, yield and surrender. It is over, he has won and scavengers are free to pick clean your sun-bleached bones as they lie shattered in the ashes of this ravaged field.


You should be an author. No, I'm serious, that was good.
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by boogiesadda »

jay_a2j wrote:If people voted on what really matters, like the state of our economy and such, someone like Ron Paul would have the nomination and win in a landslide. Both of the current candidates talk about change, but nothing will change. It never does. A guy said one of the reason's he's voting for McCain is because he's pro-life. Now, do you honestly think it even matters? Like McCain will reverse Roe vs. Wade? We have an ignorant voting population, and we will get the government we deserve.


First off Jay you are 100% correct and Roe V Wade will never be overturned. Our voting population is ignorance they choose not to explore the issues.

McCain is pandering he has lost track of his real views. He is only pro life because he needs the support of the right wing radicals. I seem to remember a time when he had Democrats going crazy because he was so middle of the road everyone loved him now he is anti abortion he chose Palin a super right wing religious zealot and a hipocrate (sorry if I offend but it is true). to get the votes of women and the rest of the Evangelists (Evils Agents) yes that is done using all of the letters in Evangelists :D . Sarah Palin along with Obama is a nobody and McCain flip flops more than that sunfish I caught last weekend. But for me I am going with the one who isn't gonna let their religion rule this country.

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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Snorri1234 »

boogiesadda wrote: a hipocrate (sorry if I offend but it is true).


I'm mostly offended because of your butchering of the english language there.
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by pimpdave »

boogiesadda wrote:I said my piece and wont return for useless banter back and forth


I hope you do check this thread though, because I must point out that in your "location" you put "The land of taxes and more taxes".

Dude, you realize that even in those periods of history when we were most heavily taxed (i.e. not now) it has still ALWAYS been at a lower rate of taxation than ANY European nation?

Honestly, the ignorance of my fellow countrymen... Please, get an education. I know Bush has made that incredibly difficult to do anymore, but with any luck, Obama will be in office by end of January next year, and legislation can get passed to open those doors for you again. Really, do it. Not necessarily for your sake, but at least for the sake of posterity. Which, if you know your history, you know was the impetus behind the actions of our nation's founders.
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Snorri1234 »

pimpdave wrote:Dude, you realize that even in those periods of history when were most heavily taxed (i.e. not now) it has still ALWAYS been at a lower rate of taxation than ANY European nation?


My dad pays 52% income taxes.

We have a 20% tax on everything we buy.



Really, with all the different taxes on things like cigarettes, oil and alcohol there are people who pay more than 90% of their money on taxes. 90% of the fucking money ends up in the governments bank, which ofcourse they spend quite heavily but that's logical since if they didn't the economy would get screwed majorly.



really, I can't help but laugh at people who say that with the 30% income tax and the 4-dollar gas-prices they have a problem with keeping up their life. Nobody likes their money being taken away, but I would love to live in a country like yours. (The only reason I stay here is because the people are superior and all the usual bollocks about friend/family and girlfriends and also because the US fucking scares me.)
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by b.k. barunt »

Before WWII, businesses paid over 60% of the income tax in America. Now they pay less than 20%. You have billionaires like Ross Perot who pay no taxes at all. If everyone got taxed 10% of their earnings, we would have at least twice as much tax revenue as we do now. This of course will never happen, and people wonder why i don't vote.


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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by jay_a2j »

Snorri1234 wrote: also because the US fucking scares me.)



I live here and it scare me! :shock:
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by pimpdave »

jay_a2j wrote:
I live here and it scare me! :shock:


Were you home schooled?
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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by b.k. barunt »

jay_a2j wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote: also because the US fucking scares me.)



I live here and it scare me! :shock:


I live here and it pisses me off.


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Re: what is wrong with american politics

Post by Frigidus »

b.k. barunt wrote:
jay_a2j wrote:
Snorri1234 wrote: also because the US fucking scares me.)



I live here and it scare me! :shock:


I live here and it pisses me off.


Honibaz


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