Validity of the Bible

[Caleb the Cruel]

we went to war with iraq for their WMDs....that aren't there anymore...and its not a war, technically (hasn't been a declared war since WWII)...its more like a conflict...a big one...anyway, the point is, we used a fake excuse to go to war, and now we can't back out...which sucks, cause american's are being killed every day for a cause that most other americans find pointless...

1. Yes, even Bush admitted that there were no major WMD's, however it does depend on everybody's definition of WMD. Some consider what was found to be WMD's, some do not. Some consider Saddam himself to be a WMD ! But it was very suspicious, I mean U.N. inspectors were sometimes denied access, or forced to wait for hours, until they would be allowed into certain complexes.
2. It is a war, a war against Islamic militants.
3. Yes, Americans are being killed ever day in Iraq but that does not mean we should run away. I like Bush because he refuses to simply run away from his problems, he tries to take care of them.

[vtmarik]

2. It is a war, a war against Islamic militants.

Yes, but it's a war only in the spiritual sense (Like the 'War on Drugs'). Legally speaking, it's more like a police action (ala Vietnam or Korea) than an actual war.

3. Yes, Americans are being killed ever day in Iraq but that does not mean we should run away. I like Bush because he refuses to simply run away from his problems, he tries to take care of them.

Well, we're also ignoring one simple fact. We aren't fighting a military or a militia, we're fighting the people who are supposed to be the ones we're liberating. They're organizing as one block to fight their common enemy, the US Army.

It wasn't too long ago that a foreign army came over to our shores and tried to 'help' us out. At that time people from all walks of life came together and fought what we saw as occupiers. Do you remember the Revolutionary War?

Don't follow? I'll ask you one question: What does the Iraqi uniform look like?

Don't worry, I'll wait.

[Caleb the Cruel]

You've gotta be joking...We've been fighting against Al Qaida in Afghanistan for 5 years now!

Evidently King George doesnt think so. I would think it would be easy to eliminate 1200-2300 people with the 300 Billion+ wasted in Iraq. We could have been finished 4 years ago, yet he decided to avenge a family vendetta and lie to the American people in the process.

But, if we don't fight them over there, then those 2300 Al Qaida members could come here and run more planes into tall buildings and kill more Americans than they're killing in Iraq.

It is this kind of BS scare tactic that keeps us in Iraq now. The whole "if we werent there fighting them, they would come after us" crap. Our mere presence is gasoline on their fire and the single largest membership drive in anti-american insurgence history. Besides...King George created the homeland security office & TSA to prevent those things from happening again. Remember? Dont you feel so much safer now?

Not to mention the many thousands of other Islamic militants that are in Iraq that are not necessarily part of Al Qaida.

Of course! We invaded their country! And they will continue to pop up like whack-a-mole until the end of time until we go. Hey..."Mission Accomplished" remember? Hussein - Check. WMD's - Check. Bring the boys home now.

Where you are badly misguided like many of the american people is:
Iraq does not equal Al Qaeda and never did.
Iraq does not equal 9-11 and never did.

Osama Bin Laden and a tiny group of rebels attacked us five years ago. Not Iraq, Not Iran, Not Afghanistan, Not Saddam Hussein. Remember THAT.

1. Easy? With the tactics of these thousands upon thousands of militants such as using civilians as sheilds, etc., etc. it will certainly not be easy.
2. If Bush did go to Iraq for revenge, he's already gotten it, Saddam is out of power and will probably be sentenced to death after this appeal is over with.
3. Yes, I do believe that if we don't fight them there, they'll attack us here. Islamic militants have declared war on America and believe that if they are killed while fighting against the West, they go directly to heavan.
4. Homeland Security cannot do much, thanks to liberals trying to defend privacy rights. But I'd rather lose some privacy to prevent another 9-11.
5. I admit that Al Qaida was not in Iraq until after the invasion, but now they are. I also admit there was no connection between Iraq and 9-11, but there was a connection to Afghanistan and the Taliban, providing a safe haven for Al Qaida. Now we are there to fight more Islamic militants who would love to come here and kill us all, but will defend the Mid East from us "evil Americans" if need be. We went to Iraq for the wrong reasons, but if we leave now, we will have left for the wrong reasons.

[jay_a2j]

Even if they'd been jackhammering daily and she'd been getting twins or even more children at a time, you don't get whole PEOPLES (read: tribes) in one generation. Unless you actually believe that they really got as old as 800-900 years and one generation means 200-300 years.

And how come all those children aren't mentioned then? Genealogy is something that most biblical texts take very seriously and there are bound to be some males among that many kids.

I think humans really max out around 130 years. Maybe someone might make it to 140 in a few years since medical care is getting better all the time, but most people die a lot earlier. Average life expectancy in industrial countries is somewhere around 80-85 years I think.



Jay, reading the bible literally is absolutely ridiculous, it's not a bad book, there's some sensible stuff in there, too. But no human being has EVER lived for 800 years.

The oldest man ever to live was over 900 years old. You may not believe people lived that long.... but why would that surprise me? You don't belive the Bible is the Word of God. So why would you believe ANYTHING in it?

Great Flood.

Parting of the Red Sea.

The birth of Christ.

Jesus walking on water.

Jesus turning water into wine.

Jesus feeding 5,000 people with a loaf of bread and a few fish.

Jesus' death on the cross.

Jesus' resurection.

The comming tribulation and return of Christ.


I don't expect you to believe anything as long as you reject the Bible as the Word of God.

[morph]

it's a reminder, of what happened, of how the Islamic militants attacked us, and why we must now fight back, or they will attack us here again.

I agree.

Let me know when we start fighting back against Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaida.

So far we have not.

You've gotta be joking...We've been fighting against Al Qaida in Afghanistan for 5 years now! And now NATO has taken control of the front in Afghanistan, and we are part of NATO, therefore we are continuing the fight. Now we are fighting more Islamic militants in Iraq. I know there are only an estimated 1200-2300 Al Qaida members in Iraq. But, if we don't fight them over there, then those 2300 Al Qaida members could come here and run more planes into tall buildings and kill more Americans than they're killing in Iraq. Not to mention the many thousands of other Islamic militants that are in Iraq that are not necessarily part of Al Qaida.

we went to war with iraq for their WMDs....that aren't there anymore...and its not a war, technically (hasn't been a declared war since WWII)...its more like a conflict...a big one...anyway, the point is, we used a fake excuse to go to war, and now we can't back out...which sucks, cause american's are being killed every day for a cause that most other americans find pointless...

WMD's well um they found russian made migs in the desert buried..... a plane that can have bombs put onto them and take out whole cities, i think that is a step to the more literal WMD i.e. bombs... they are diliverence systems basically... and they could have been researching how to make nukes or other things... maybe not at it right then and there, but people getting into places, delayed... well they could be moving stuff around so its not seen, or even not allowed because maybe it would take to much time to be moved? eh


also, this thread should die, religious threads in general should die... we know Jay is not going to be told differently, we know caleb is not going to be told differently and we know all the other jesus freaks out there are not going to be told differently, and i think they realize we are not going to be told differently, the ones who are looking for physical proof...

i looked at the website that was to give proof (i should mention it cites a bunch of diff sites, and i dont feel like going on a chase)... i just am wondering, where is the Ark.... i mean they searched the mountains that supposedly could have been or should have had the ark on it, and yet nothing... such a great big ship, there would be some evidence... and on a such a large mountain, when the sea finally went down, it should have had the tops filled with snow and ice keeping it in nice and good condition... o yes and also um science says (and i realize Jay or the others may say something like "it was gods will" or even "science is not a fact" but neither is the bible so kiss my ass! im tired of these arguements...) the atmosphere for the word to be filled with water would need to be close to 100% water, so if people breathed, or anything breathed, their lungs would be filled with so much water vapor that they would die... so ya...


i should also mention, i dont believe in science and i dont believe in religion... id argue for religion id honestly would but with vtmarik's arguements... its really hard to come up with a decent arguement.. unless your like Jay and decide to recite something that means that "im not gonna answer because the bible says i dont have to answer a foolish question because questioning god is a foolish question"

[jay_a2j]

... i just am wondering, where is the Ark.... i mean they searched the mountains that supposedly could have been or should have had the ark on it, and yet nothing... such a great big ship, there would be some evidence... and on a such a large mountain, when the sea finally went down, it should have had the tops filled with snow and ice keeping it in nice and good condition...

Ask and you shall recieve.....

http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism/arch/noah.htm

[Backglass]

... i just am wondering, where is the Ark.... i mean they searched the mountains that supposedly could have been or should have had the ark on it, and yet nothing... such a great big ship, there would be some evidence... and on a such a large mountain, when the sea finally went down, it should have had the tops filled with snow and ice keeping it in nice and good condition...

Ask and you shall recieve.....

http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism/arch/noah.htm

I went to a fairy tale theme park once as a child that had a giant, 30 foot Shoe with windows (ie: There was an old woman that lived in a shoe, etc).

2000 years from now, archeologists may find this shoe...but that doesnt mean that the fairy tale was real.

[jay_a2j]

... i just am wondering, where is the Ark.... i mean they searched the mountains that supposedly could have been or should have had the ark on it, and yet nothing... such a great big ship, there would be some evidence... and on a such a large mountain, when the sea finally went down, it should have had the tops filled with snow and ice keeping it in nice and good condition...

Ask and you shall recieve.....

http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism/arch/noah.htm

I went to a fairy tale theme park once as a child that had a giant, 30 foot Shoe with windows (ie: There was an old woman that lived in a shoe, etc).

2000 years from now, archeologists may find this shoe...but that doesnt mean that the fairy tale was real.

This is where the debate ends. When you give proof and they say, "That ain't proof!". The sad reality is Jesus could visit you tonight, perform miraculous miracles that astound you .... and you STILL would not believe. I think this is what is refered to as "the point of no return" for a man to reject any and all evidence .

[Skittlesandmnms]

... i just am wondering, where is the Ark.... i mean they searched the mountains that supposedly could have been or should have had the ark on it, and yet nothing... such a great big ship, there would be some evidence... and on a such a large mountain, when the sea finally went down, it should have had the tops filled with snow and ice keeping it in nice and good condition...

Ask and you shall recieve.....

http://english.sdaglobal.org/evangelism/arch/noah.htm

I went to a fairy tale theme park once as a child that had a giant, 30 foot Shoe with windows (ie: There was an old woman that lived in a shoe, etc).

2000 years from now, archeologists may find this shoe...but that doesnt mean that the fairy tale was real.

This is where the debate ends. When you give proof and they say, "That ain't proof!". The sad reality is Jesus could visit you tonight, perform miraculous miracles that astound you .... and you STILL would not believe. I think this is what is refered to as "the point of no return" for a man to reject any and all evidence .

lmao... athiests say the same thing about you.

[zarvinny]

thats cool jay, but a lot of people would accept evidence. You seem to group people either they hate the bible and everything about it or they are the total opposite. Alot of people are just skeptical with things like a flood flooding the entire earth, people living to 800 years of age, basically miracles and whatnot. How come we don't see any of that stuff anymore, and we haven't seen that stuff for a real long while.

[morph]

thats cool jay, but a lot of people would accept evidence. You seem to group people either they hate the bible and everything about it or they are the total opposite. Alot of people are just skeptical with things like a flood flooding the entire earth, people living to 800 years of age, basically miracles and whatnot. How come we don't see any of that stuff anymore, and we haven't seen that stuff for a real long while.

yup, i dont hate the bible, nor do i hate believers, i figuere it floats your boat you go right head, but do not condem me to hell when ive lived my life well, when according to your 10 commandments i have honestly yet to sin against the commandments and also one more thing


Such sophisticated alloys as iron, titanium and aluminium also proved to be present. With only a superficial inspection the rib timbers and deck joists are clearly visible along the entire length of the ship.
that is from the site.. talkin about what they found along the boat, can anyone tell me how hard it is to make titanium, and if people even had the capabilities to make such a metal back then, and if so um why didint we see it in swords and other things?

[Caleb the Cruel]

i have honestly yet to sin against the commandments

Really??? What Commandments are you reading?
1. You shall have no other Gods before me.
-Well, considering that you are not Christian, you broke that.
2. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
-You might not have made any idols, but I can't be sure.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
-The majority of Americans have broken this, so I'll assume you haven't kept it, correct me if I'm wrong.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
-Considering that you do not believe, I'll assume that you do not praise God on the Sabbath, meaning you have broken #4.
5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
-I'll assume that you've disobeyed your persons of higher authority.
6. You shall not murder.
-I'm hoping you've kept that.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
-I'm not sure, nor do I want to know if you've kept that.
8. You shall not steal.
-I bet you've broken that, even stealing Jimmy's eraser is stealing.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
-I do not know you too well, so I'll let you be the judge.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s."
-I bet you've been jealous of somebody or somebody else's possesions before.

[jay_a2j]

thats cool jay, but a lot of people would accept evidence. You seem to group people either they hate the bible and everything about it or they are the total opposite. Alot of people are just skeptical with things like a flood flooding the entire earth, people living to 800 years of age, basically miracles and whatnot. How come we don't see any of that stuff anymore, and we haven't seen that stuff for a real long while.

I was refering to backglass (not everyone). You're right. Not eveyone dismisses any and all evidence of God. Some are genuinely curious or are atually searching for answers. Some start out as curious and then jump on the "bash Christians, the Bible and anything that resembles God" bandwagon. Its ok. Nothing I say will change the stauchest of skeptics and nothing they say will change me.

[lesnud]

Alot of people are just skeptical with things like a flood flooding the entire earth, people living to 800 years of age, basically miracles and whatnot. How come we don't see any of that stuff anymore, and we haven't seen that stuff for a real long while.

This happened once before. Bit of Bible trivia for you:

The last book of the old testament is Malachi. The time gap between when Malachi and Matthew happened was about 400 years. That was 400 years of nothing. After this wait, The birth of the Messiah happened.

Now, if we say that history repeats itself, and accept the Bible as history(just bear with me for a moment) then We could conclude that that little baby that was born about 2000 years ago is coming back pretty soon. Except, he won't be a baby anymore. He'll be imbued with Almighty authority and all that jazz. That's if you see the Bible as historically accurate.

Why the wait? Why no crazy miracles? Well, if we accept Jesus as God for a moment, he said that he would return. he said that he would come like a thief in the night. That the way is narrow. That he will come at an unknown hour. Pretty much that he comes unexpectedly. So, if miracles were flying all around, and people had messages from God everyday, and people listened to those...He wouldn't be very unexpected then, would he?

There's that, If it helps.

[Backglass]

The sad reality is Jesus could visit you tonight, perform miraculous miracles that astound you .... and you STILL would not believe.

No...because THAT would be proof...so far you have none.

For example...your limb regeneration claims. Prove to me it happened and I will out pray YOU this Sunday.

[Backglass]

he said that he would come like a thief in the night. That the way is narrow. That he will come at an unknown hour. Pretty much that he comes unexpectedly.

How intentionally vague. "Very soon" has been preached for 2000 years. And 2000 years from now, they will still be saying "Very soon".

The END IS NEAR! DOOM! DOOM ON YOU!

So, if miracles were flying all around, and people had messages from God everyday, and people listened to those...He wouldn't be very unexpected then, would he?

And why not? Why ARENT there miracles every day, messages from god, etc. It seemed to be a pretty common occurence in the bible. Seems like magical stuff happened every week somewhere! Yet, if we are to believe these stories, it all just faded away for some reason. Why is that?

Evidently jesus is just a secret agent who must be stealthy. I mean WHY NOT announce your return to give us sinners a chance to repent? Isnt that the point? To save all the souls possible? WHY the trickery? WHY the subterfuge? Because it's all BS, thats why.

Still I am amazed at the stretches christians will go to, to explain away the obvious. There are no miracles, parted oceans, burning bushes today, etc because that would be too obvious huh? Unbelievable. Why cant you people just realize IT DIDNT HAPPEN. It's just a book of inspirational stories meant to guide you. And just as there was no wolf in grandmas house, these fables are just that as well. Fables.

[salvadevinemasse]

Even if they'd been jackhammering daily and she'd been getting twins or even more children at a time, you don't get whole PEOPLES (read: tribes) in one generation. Unless you actually believe that they really got as old as 800-900 years and one generation means 200-300 years.

And how come all those children aren't mentioned then? Genealogy is something that most biblical texts take very seriously and there are bound to be some males among that many kids.

I think humans really max out around 130 years. Maybe someone might make it to 140 in a few years since medical care is getting better all the time, but most people die a lot earlier. Average life expectancy in industrial countries is somewhere around 80-85 years I think.



Jay, reading the bible literally is absolutely ridiculous, it's not a bad book, there's some sensible stuff in there, too. But no human being has EVER lived for 800 years.

The oldest man ever to live was over 900 years old. You may not believe people lived that long.... but why would that surprise me? You don't belive the Bible is the Word of God. So why would you believe ANYTHING in it?

Great Flood.

Parting of the Red Sea.

The birth of Christ.

Jesus walking on water.

Jesus turning water into wine.

Jesus feeding 5,000 people with a loaf of bread and a few fish.

Jesus' death on the cross.

Jesus' resurection.

The comming tribulation and return of Christ.


I don't expect you to believe anything as long as you reject the Bible as the Word of God.

If we believed all the bible said we'd also have to believe your god RAPED mary... So there chew on that a while!
Salva-

[s.xkitten]

chew...not crew

[morph]

i have honestly yet to sin against the commandments

Really??? What Commandments are you reading?
1. You shall have no other Gods before me.
-Well, considering that you are not Christian, you broke that.
2. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those who love Me and keep My commandments.
-You might not have made any idols, but I can't be sure.
3. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain.
-The majority of Americans have broken this, so I'll assume you haven't kept it, correct me if I'm wrong.
4. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it.
-Considering that you do not believe, I'll assume that you do not praise God on the Sabbath, meaning you have broken #4.
5. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you.
-I'll assume that you've disobeyed your persons of higher authority.
6. You shall not murder.
-I'm hoping you've kept that.
7. You shall not commit adultery.
-I'm not sure, nor do I want to know if you've kept that.
8. You shall not steal.
-I bet you've broken that, even stealing Jimmy's eraser is stealing.
9. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.
-I do not know you too well, so I'll let you be the judge.
10. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s."
-I bet you've been jealous of somebody or somebody else's possesions before.

the first one, didint break, i believe in no god, and for me to break it i have to believe in a different god...

and do not judge me so quickly, the taking lords name in vain, ok ya, i broke that, but then again i compleatly forgot that was even one... (anyone know of a 10 comandments list that dosnt have that one >.>) and stealing, i havnt stolen anything... and im not jealous of anyone, im pretty happy with what i got cuz i know it can be all very much worse... and the sabbath... i didint even known that was one, ive never heard that, and even if i had forgotten it would have rung a bell and it hasnt sooo ive not heard that one...

[kclborat]

Jay, I do need some advice from you, regarding some other
>elements of God's Laws and how to follow them...
>1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and
>female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A
>friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
>Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
>
>2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
>Exodus 21:7. In today's economy, what do you think would be a fair
>price for her? She is really cute.
>
>3. I know that men are allowed no contact with a woman while she is
>in her period of menstrual unseemliness [Lev.15: 19-24]. The problem
>is how can the men tell? Should the women let them know? Should they
>tell their bosses at work too?
>
>4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates
>a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors
>claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
>
>5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
>35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I allowed to kill
>him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
>
>6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
>abomination [Lev. 11:10], it is a lesser abomination than
>homosexuality. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of
>abomination?
>
>7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
>have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear contacts.
>Does my vision have to be 20/20 without corrective lenses, or is
>there some wiggle-room here?
>
>8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the
>hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden
>in Lev. 19:27. How should they be punished? Should I do it?
>
>9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig
>makes someone unclean. Does that mean I should not associate with
>people who play football?
>
>10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
>different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
>garments made of two different kinds of thread (she has a cute
>cotton/polyester blend jumper). He also tends to curse and blaspheme
>a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of
>getting the whole town together to stone them as
>required by Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just do it at a private
>family affair, as we do with people who sleep with their in-laws?
>[Lev. 20:14]


Sorry about the "<"'s, thats how it ended up from my email outbox to here.

[Skittlesandmnms]

Even if they'd been jackhammering daily and she'd been getting twins or even more children at a time, you don't get whole PEOPLES (read: tribes) in one generation. Unless you actually believe that they really got as old as 800-900 years and one generation means 200-300 years.

And how come all those children aren't mentioned then? Genealogy is something that most biblical texts take very seriously and there are bound to be some males among that many kids.

I think humans really max out around 130 years. Maybe someone might make it to 140 in a few years since medical care is getting better all the time, but most people die a lot earlier. Average life expectancy in industrial countries is somewhere around 80-85 years I think.



Jay, reading the bible literally is absolutely ridiculous, it's not a bad book, there's some sensible stuff in there, too. But no human being has EVER lived for 800 years.

The oldest man ever to live was over 900 years old. You may not believe people lived that long.... but why would that surprise me? You don't belive the Bible is the Word of God. So why would you believe ANYTHING in it?

Great Flood.

Parting of the Red Sea.

The birth of Christ.

Jesus walking on water.

Jesus turning water into wine.

Jesus feeding 5,000 people with a loaf of bread and a few fish.

Jesus' death on the cross.

Jesus' resurection.

The comming tribulation and return of Christ.


I don't expect you to believe anything as long as you reject the Bible as the Word of God.

If we believed all the bible said we'd also have to believe your god RAPED mary... So there chew on that a while!
Salva-

salva, you are now my hero.

[morph]

he said that he would come like a thief in the night. That the way is narrow. That he will come at an unknown hour. Pretty much that he comes unexpectedly.

How intentionally vague. "Very soon" has been preached for 2000 years. And 2000 years from now, they will still be saying "Very soon".

The END IS NEAR! DOOM! DOOM ON YOU!

So, if miracles were flying all around, and people had messages from God everyday, and people listened to those...He wouldn't be very unexpected then, would he?

And why not? Why ARENT there miracles every day, messages from god, etc. It seemed to be a pretty common occurence in the bible. Seems like magical stuff happened every week somewhere! Yet, if we are to believe these stories, it all just faded away for some reason. Why is that?

Evidently jesus is just a secret agent who must be stealthy. I mean WHY NOT announce your return to give us sinners a chance to repent? Isnt that the point? To save all the souls possible? WHY the trickery? WHY the subterfuge? Because it's all BS, thats why.

Still I am amazed at the stretches christians will go to, to explain away the obvious. There are no miracles, parted oceans, burning bushes today, etc because that would be too obvious huh? Unbelievable. Why cant you people just realize IT DIDNT HAPPEN. It's just a book of inspirational stories meant to guide you. And just as there was no wolf in grandmas house, these fables are just that as well. Fables.

hey Jay, is nostradomus or whatever his name a real prophet, because honestly what they are doing with his so called prophecies is what you do with your bible, or they did with the bible, they took events that had already happened and said "o this was prophicised early on, and this is how it fits in" and by waiting for jesus's second coming and not knowing when your doing it again...

[Skittlesandmnms]

Jay, I do need some advice from you, regarding some other
>elements of God's Laws and how to follow them...
>1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and
>female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A
>friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
>Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
>
>2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
>Exodus 21:7. In today's economy, what do you think would be a fair
>price for her? She is really cute.
>
>3. I know that men are allowed no contact with a woman while she is
>in her period of menstrual unseemliness [Lev.15: 19-24]. The problem
>is how can the men tell? Should the women let them know? Should they
>tell their bosses at work too?
>
>4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates
>a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors
>claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
>
>5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
>35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I allowed to kill
>him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
>
>6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
>abomination [Lev. 11:10], it is a lesser abomination than
>homosexuality. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of
>abomination?
>
>7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
>have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear contacts.
>Does my vision have to be 20/20 without corrective lenses, or is
>there some wiggle-room here?
>
>8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the
>hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden
>in Lev. 19:27. How should they be punished? Should I do it?
>
>9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig
>makes someone unclean. Does that mean I should not associate with
>people who play football?
>
>10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
>different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
>garments made of two different kinds of thread (she has a cute
>cotton/polyester blend jumper). He also tends to curse and blaspheme
>a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of
>getting the whole town together to stone them as
>required by Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just do it at a private
>family affair, as we do with people who sleep with their in-laws?
>[Lev. 20:14]


Sorry about the "<"'s, thats how it ended up from my email outbox to here.

i sincerely hope that was in mockery

[lesnud]

he said that he would come like a thief in the night. That the way is narrow. That he will come at an unknown hour. Pretty much that he comes unexpectedly.

How intentionally vague. "Very soon" has been preached for 2000 years. And 2000 years from now, they will still be saying "Very soon".

The END IS NEAR! DOOM! DOOM ON YOU!

So, if miracles were flying all around, and people had messages from God everyday, and people listened to those...He wouldn't be very unexpected then, would he?

And why not? Why ARENT there miracles every day, messages from god, etc. It seemed to be a pretty common occurence in the bible. Seems like magical stuff happened every week somewhere! Yet, if we are to believe these stories, it all just faded away for some reason. Why is that?

Evidently jesus is just a secret agent who must be stealthy. I mean WHY NOT announce your return to give us sinners a chance to repent? Isnt that the point? To save all the souls possible? WHY the trickery? WHY the subterfuge? Because it's all BS, thats why.

Still I am amazed at the stretches christians will go to, to explain away the obvious. There are no miracles, parted oceans, burning bushes today, etc because that would be too obvious huh? Unbelievable. Why cant you people just realize IT DIDNT HAPPEN. It's just a book of inspirational stories meant to guide you. And just as there was no wolf in grandmas house, these fables are just that as well. Fables.

Yeah, yeah, I know the whole 'end is near' crap has been done, and that wasn't what I was trying to do. But, compared to however long the world has been around, even 100 years is 'near'. 2000 years from now, we'll both be dead, and we will see who was right. I don't mind being wrong. I would have nothing to lose. Maybe you are right. Maybe it is all a bunch of bogus, all child's stories, all nothing. I'm okay with that.

And why not miracles everyday, and announcements to the exact day the end would come, if there is an end coming? That's more a psychological thing in my mind. If I know there is a test on history on Monday, I would study Sunday night. Well, if I cared, I would study Sunday night. Now, if I knew there was a test coming, I would have to constantly be studying. Always ready.

Of course, I could be wrong. But that is okay. I have nothing to lose.

[s.xkitten]

Jay, I do need some advice from you, regarding some other
>elements of God's Laws and how to follow them...
>1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and
>female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A
>friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not
>Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians?
>
>2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in
>Exodus 21:7. In today's economy, what do you think would be a fair
>price for her? She is really cute.
>
>3. I know that men are allowed no contact with a woman while she is
>in her period of menstrual unseemliness [Lev.15: 19-24]. The problem
>is how can the men tell? Should the women let them know? Should they
>tell their bosses at work too?
>
>4. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates
>a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is my neighbors
>claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them?
>
>5. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus
>35:2 clearly states he should be put to death. Am I allowed to kill
>him myself, or should I ask the police to do it?
>
>6. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an
>abomination [Lev. 11:10], it is a lesser abomination than
>homosexuality. Can you settle this? Are there 'degrees' of
>abomination?
>
>7. Lev. 21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I
>have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear contacts.
>Does my vision have to be 20/20 without corrective lenses, or is
>there some wiggle-room here?
>
>8. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the
>hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden
>in Lev. 19:27. How should they be punished? Should I do it?
>
>9. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig
>makes someone unclean. Does that mean I should not associate with
>people who play football?
>
>10. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev. 19:19 by planting two
>different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing
>garments made of two different kinds of thread (she has a cute
>cotton/polyester blend jumper). He also tends to curse and blaspheme
>a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of
>getting the whole town together to stone them as
>required by Lev. 24:10-16. Couldn't we just do it at a private
>family affair, as we do with people who sleep with their in-laws?
>[Lev. 20:14]


Sorry about the "<"'s, thats how it ended up from my email outbox to here.

i sincerely hope that was in mockery

no he was totally serious about that skittleydumdums...