I challenge you

[MeDeFe]

Now I want to know if you beleive in other living things that we can't see such as demons, and angels. because if there is proof for them then where did they come from.

oh man, how could I have missed a question like that?

No, I do not believe in angels and demons. Why should I, there's no proof for them.

[vtmarik]

The best answer to the original post comes from vtmarik so far. He said that he simply believes, he doesn't claim to have had revelating experiences, mircaulous healings or other things like that.

Seems like a completely honest answer to me.

Well, to be fair I did claim that. However, my revelation over the Bible being a book of fables about free will is not a new idea nor is it necessarily godly in nature.

But yeah, like I said, it's illogical to discount the concept just because it involves deities that may or may not exist.

[jay_a2j]

That phrase came from the bible, and it's purdy, so it's turned into a cliche since then.

In Job, God himself talks about laying the foundations of the earth and about holding it by the corners to shake out the wickedness.

God is perfect. Metaphors are not, they are falsehoods. God is the way, the TRUTH and the light. God does not lie. Therefore god does not speak in metaphors. Therefore he thinks the earth is flat.

ROFL! yeah, ok.

[Aradhus]

Satan takes Jesus to the top of a mountain to show him all the kingdoms of the world. Evidence that the writer thought the earth was flat.

[reverend_kyle]

Liberalism has nothing to do with logic.

Learning is FINALLY taking place. A belief system SHOULD have to do with logic, it should come right off the tip of your tongue.

Religion:
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.


Essentially that means a belief system.. however it is counter intuitive to avoid facts and say you believe something because the bible or god tells you to... because that is circular logic.

[jay_a2j]

Liberalism has nothing to do with logic.

Learning is FINALLY taking place. A belief system SHOULD have to do with logic, it should come right off the tip of your tongue.

Religion:
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.


Essentially that means a belief system.. however it is counter intuitive to avoid facts and say you believe something because the bible or god tells you to... because that is circular logic.

3? 3 what? The 3rd definition? What about 1 and 2???? And you can have your religion. I have a relationship.


I don't believe because a pastor told me to believe. Its something that can only be explained when experianced. God is REAL. This I am 100% sure! If you choose to reject the evidence.... thats your problem. But you won't be able to stand in front of God and say, "I didn't know!" Because He will point to every single time someone TRIED to tell you and you simply brushed it off. With God, nothing is done in secret... all will be revealed..... down to your inermost thoughts.

[reverend_kyle]

Liberalism has nothing to do with logic.

Learning is FINALLY taking place. A belief system SHOULD have to do with logic, it should come right off the tip of your tongue.

Religion:
3. A set of beliefs, values, and practices based on the teachings of a spiritual leader.


Essentially that means a belief system.. however it is counter intuitive to avoid facts and say you believe something because the bible or god tells you to... because that is circular logic.

3? 3 what? The 3rd definition? What about 1 and 2???? And you can have your religion. I have a relationship.

Forgive my possibly blasphemic statement that is totally irrelavent, but you have a relationship with god?


Is god a woman or should gay marriage be legalized?


as for 1 and 2.. cut because I felt that they werent fair to religion


1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 22. The life or condition of a person in a religious order

[Ectomancer]

Sadly, these discussions always turn into a debate pitting established religion vs atheists.
Myself, I'm a Gnostic. Not Agnostic or Atheist.
To clarify for those not sure....
An Atheist: Believes that there is no God, period, end of story.
An Agnostic believes that we CAN'T know if there is a God or not and wont until we die.
A Gnostic believes that we DONT know if there is a God or not, but that through searching it is possible that we might someday know if there is a God.

Now, as a Gnostic, Im of the open mind club. I have no proof of God, nor proof of no God. However, when I consider the question, I look towards what I can know.

I'll state plainly that I do not believe in the God of Abraham. I regard other prophets as just that. They all spawned religions based upon their teachings or writings. (Im talking about Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, etc)
If you want another Prophet, I submit L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. I love him because he proved that a religion could be founded in modern times, and if it could be founded, baselessly as Im sure Christians, Muslims, Hindu, Buddhist would agree, then how much easier would it be to found one in ancient times?

Now why would I believe in a divine creator? I said already that the current religious texts offer no succor for me.
What I believe in is science.
As I study the findings of far more knowledgeable people, their experiments have led increasingly away from a more complex universe (as you might suspect) to a far simpler one.
When you consider that every object in the known universe is derived from the same basic material, and the complexity that can be achieved from that same basic material, random chance becomes less of a viable machinery to create it all.
Im astounded by the discoveries we have made. But rather than draw me away from a divine creator (someone not human, who created this universe), I seem to find myself captured by the thought that our universe is entirely too orderly to have been created at random. Sure, you might expect some sort of order to even the most random of events, BUT, this order procedes from the very largest in universes, galaxies and stars, to the very smallest bit of matter we can detect.

So, to the author of this thread, the world and universe are proof to me of a divine creator. However, sorry christjewmuslims. I dont believe in your God at all.

[reverend_kyle]

Sadly, these discussions always turn into a debate pitting established religion vs atheists.
Myself, I'm a Gnostic. Not Agnostic or Atheist.
To clarify for those not sure....
An Atheist: Believes that there is no God, period, end of story.
An Agnostic believes that we CAN'T know if there is a God or not and wont until we die.
A Gnostic believes that we DONT know if there is a God or not, but that through searching it is possible that we might someday know if there is a God.

Now, as a Gnostic, Im of the open mind club. I have no proof of God, nor proof of no God. However, when I consider the question, I look towards what I can know.

I'll state plainly that I do not believe in the God of Abraham. I regard other prophets as just that. They all spawned religions based upon their teachings or writings. (Im talking about Jesus, Mohammed, Buddha, etc)
If you want another Prophet, I submit L. Ron Hubbard, the founder of Scientology. I love him because he proved that a religion could be founded in modern times, and if it could be founded, baselessly as Im sure Christians, Muslims, Hindu, Buddhist would agree, then how much easier would it be to found one in ancient times?

Now why would I believe in a divine creator? I said already that the current religious texts offer no succor for me.
What I believe in is science.
As I study the findings of far more knowledgeable people, their experiments have led increasingly away from a more complex universe (as you might suspect) to a far simpler one.
When you consider that every object in the known universe is derived from the same basic material, and the complexity that can be achieved from that same basic material, random chance becomes less of a viable machinery to create it all.
Im astounded by the discoveries we have made. But rather than draw me away from a divine creator (someone not human, who created this universe), I seem to find myself captured by the thought that our universe is entirely too orderly to have been created at random. Sure, you might expect some sort of order to even the most random of events, BUT, this order procedes from the very largest in universes, galaxies and stars, to the very smallest bit of matter we can detect.

So, to the author of this thread, the world and universe are proof to me of a divine creator. However, sorry christjewmuslims. I dont believe in your God at all.

Quite frankly i'm sick of these religo/political thread arguements so I started my own that I didnt see a way it possibly could get into legalizing pot.. or gods existance.. and so far it hasnt.

[jay_a2j]

Forgive my possibly blasphemic statement that is totally irrelavent, but you have a relationship with god?


Is god a woman or should gay marriage be legalized?


as for 1 and 2.. cut because I felt that they werent fair to religion


1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 22. The life or condition of a person in a religious order

Do you have a relationship with your father? A relationship does not automatically mean "intimate" or sexual.


Jesus was/is male. Jesus is God. Not too hard to figure out. "I and the Father are one", again "Father" implies male.

[jay_a2j]

I am a Scientologist.

Well that was short and simple.

[reverend_kyle]

Forgive my possibly blasphemic statement that is totally irrelavent, but you have a relationship with god?


Is god a woman or should gay marriage be legalized?


as for 1 and 2.. cut because I felt that they werent fair to religion


1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 22. The life or condition of a person in a religious order

Do you have a relationship with your father? A relationship does not automatically mean "intimate" or sexual.


Jesus was/is male. Jesus is God. Not too hard to figure out. "I and the Father are one", again "Father" implies male.

So then you believe jesus is god then right?

[Ectomancer]

I'm an ignorant piece of cow dung. I also eat my own babies

Wow! Thats quite a revelation!

[jay_a2j]

I have an IQ about half my shoe size and have a goat fetish.

[jay_a2j]

Forgive my possibly blasphemic statement that is totally irrelavent, but you have a relationship with god?


Is god a woman or should gay marriage be legalized?


as for 1 and 2.. cut because I felt that they werent fair to religion


1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 22. The life or condition of a person in a religious order

Do you have a relationship with your father? A relationship does not automatically mean "intimate" or sexual.


Jesus was/is male. Jesus is God. Not too hard to figure out. "I and the Father are one", again "Father" implies male.

So then you believe jesus is god then right?

That would be correct.

[stinkycheese]

I have an IQ about half my shoe size and have a goat fetish.

Hmm...I'm sure god would frown upon this petty squabbling.

[Ectomancer]

Quite amazing Jay. Glad you could perpetuate your own methodology.
Excellent technique as well. Quote when you think it supports your position, quote when you think it might support your position, and change the quote if it doesnt suit your purposes. And then of course, dont even address anything that is counter to your view.
If you were a real man of God, you could address any views that oppose yours. Instead you hid behind what you hoped to be a joke. I've spoken to men who truly believed. They did not need to hide from anything I said. They did not have all the answers, but when they did not they said so. But NEVER did they say, "I believe because I believe and if you dont it is your own fault!" (Yes, that is a paraphrase of you) Unfortunately in this case, you didnt even bother to discuss what I took the time to express. That is is vulgar display of disrespect.
You need quite a bit more growth in the spirit before you are ready to engage the non-believers.

[stinkycheese]

You need quite a bit more growth in the spirit before you are ready to engage the non-believers.

I think he needs a little bit more than that...

[reverend_kyle]

Forgive my possibly blasphemic statement that is totally irrelavent, but you have a relationship with god?


Is god a woman or should gay marriage be legalized?


as for 1 and 2.. cut because I felt that they werent fair to religion


1. a. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers regarded as creator and governor of the universe. b. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief and worship. 22. The life or condition of a person in a religious order

Do you have a relationship with your father? A relationship does not automatically mean "intimate" or sexual.


Jesus was/is male. Jesus is God. Not too hard to figure out. "I and the Father are one", again "Father" implies male.

So then you believe jesus is god then right?

That would be correct.

Perhaps you havent heard the verse of John 3:16 where it says, "for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"


Wouldnt you agree that is saying he's the SON of god?

[vtmarik]

Perhaps you havent heard the verse of John 3:16 where it says, "for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"


Wouldnt you agree that is saying he's the SON of god?

He's the son of Mary, not of God. If God impregnated Mary that means he placed his seed into the womb of a married woman who wasn't his wife.

I believe that, in those days, that was a stoning offense.

[Stopper]

Perhaps you havent heard the verse of John 3:16 where it says, "for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"


Wouldnt you agree that is saying he's the SON of god?

He's the son of Mary, not of God. If God impregnated Mary that means he placed his seed into the womb of a married woman who wasn't his wife.

I believe that, in those days, that was a stoning offense.

You'd need a bloody big stone for Him, mind.

[happysadfun]

Perhaps you havent heard the verse of John 3:16 where it says, "for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"


Wouldnt you agree that is saying he's the SON of god?

He's the son of Mary, not of God. If God impregnated Mary that means he placed his seed into the womb of a married woman who wasn't his wife.

I believe that, in those days, that was a stoning offense.

God can do anything he wants. Mary was a virgin, it clearly states in the bible, and while it says that Jesus is God's own son, it also states that Jesus, God, ans The Holy Ghost/Spirit are three in one, a trinity.

[jay_a2j]

Perhaps you havent heard the verse of John 3:16 where it says, "for god so loved the world he gave his only begotten son whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life"


Wouldnt you agree that is saying he's the SON of god?

Perhaps you are not familiar with the word "trinity". God IS three persons in ONE. Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Jesus never hid the fact that He was God. A little time in the Word and you will see. He is the Son of God and IS God.

[Aradhus]

And you are the son of your brother and sister. Proof of this is the fact you're retarded.

[vtmarik]

God can do anything he wants. Mary was a virgin, it clearly states in the bible, and while it says that Jesus is God's own son, it also states that Jesus, God, ans The Holy Ghost/Spirit are three in one, a trinity.

But isn't impregnating another man's wife technically adultery?

And isn't adultery a sin?