9/11 Conspiracies(threads merged)

[Juan_Bottom]

Go back a couple of pages. Cheny said over and over that he arrived at the Pentagon only after flight 77 struck it. He claimed to be in a shelter at the White House.

But Secretary of transportation Mineta testified, and repeatidly has stated, that Cheny was at the Pentagon before flight 77 struck. He was tracking something over a radio. Go back a couple of pages, you'll understand better.

This to me doesn't seem that it could be a "senior moment."

[Neoteny]

Go back a couple of pages. Cheny said over and over that he arrived at the Pentagon only after flight 77 struck it. He claimed to be in a shelter at the White House.

But Secretary of transportation Mineta testified, and repeatidly has stated, that Cheny was at the Pentagon before flight 77 struck. He was tracking something over a radio. Go back a couple of pages, you'll understand better.

This to me doesn't seem that it could be a "senior moment."

Ech, you're underestimating my laziness. Can I have an approximate page number?

[Juan_Bottom]

Yeppers HC.

MR. HAMILTON: We thank you for that. I wanted to focus just a moment on the Presidential Emergency Operating Center. You were there for a good part of the day. I think you were there with the vice president. And when you had that order given, I think it was by the president, that authorized the shooting down of commercial aircraft that were suspected to be controlled by terrorists, were you there when that order was given?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon. There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know what all that meant. And --

MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --

MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.

MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

MR. MINETA: And so I was not aware that that discussion had already taken place. But in listening to the conversation between the young man and the vice president, then at the time I didn't really recognize the significance of that.

And then later I heard of the fact that the airplanes had been scrambled from Langley to come up to DC, but those planes were still about 10 minutes away. And so then, at the time we heard about the airplane that went into Pennsylvania, then I thought, "Oh, my God, did we shoot it down?" And then we had to, with the vice president, go through the Pentagon to check that out.

MR. HAMILTON: Let me see if I understand. The plane that was headed toward the Pentagon and was some miles away, there was an order to shoot that plane down.

MR. MINETA: Well, I don't know that specifically, but I do know that the airplanes were scrambled from Langley or from Norfolk, the Norfolk area. But I did not know about the orders specifically other than listening to that other conversation.

MR. HAMILTON: But there very clearly was an order to shoot commercial aircraft down.

MR. MINETA: Subsequently I found that out.

So.... where's the issue?

This I believe, was Mineta's testimony. They didn't mention "when the shoot down order was given.

[Juan_Bottom]

'THEY HAD NO IDEA WHER THE PLANES WOULD BE HIJACKED.'
yes. So your point doesn't stand.

America isn't that big. Especially since NORAD WAS AWARE OF THE MISSING PLANES!!!!!!!!!! Where the planes are hijacked is not important at all. Please keep up.

Stop only listening to half of what I'm saying!!!! If NORAD was aware of the missing planes FROM THE START, then WHAT WAS CHENY TALKING ABOUT??????????? WHY WAS THERE NO RESPONSE????????? IT WAS NORAD'S FRIGGIN' MOST IMPORTANT JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Yet they ignored the hijackings until every single last plane had hit????

It doesn't matter if they knew where, what matters is that they did nothing.

Do to the fact that there was no response, it looks as though either Cheny was ordering a stand down, or he was directing the hit on the Pentagon.

Ok i'll bite: what is a doomsday plane and where is the evidnce they were above these buildings when the planes hit?

Those are the silver planes filmed over the Pentagon and the towers. They aren't important to my point.

Dude you have nothing. You never have. This is all supposition, assumption and cherrypicking. You seem open minded enough to argue in the religious threads, why can't you think about this with a critical and objective mind?

I would give you circimstancial, but that's it.
http://www.jonesreport.com/articles/260607_mineta.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NR7b_zofzXU

I hope that's the video you need. Cheny said he arrived at the Pentagon AFTER THE ATTACK. But Mineta said that he had already been there. Remember?



And I am one who doesn't think being liberal, or Conservitive has anything to do with anything.

And above is a video of Cheny discussing where he was.

[Neoteny]

Uh... Didn't Mineta say that Cheney was already at the PEOC? The PEOC is part of the White House, not the Pentagon.

[joecoolfrog]

I think people get too caught up in the speculation. Like "how did they do it???" We don't really have a clue. What we know is that the story doesn't work... and we are going from there.

Since there are no answer for these important questions, the theory on the whole gets dismissed.


Questions Neoteny? All I can do is help you to toss out certain accepted "truths."

Does no one believe Cheny lied?--If we start there, then you have to wonder, what was the "target?"

You lied and are still doing so !
Its ok though , I forgive you because I just read an interesting article explaining that conspiracy truthers cannot help themselves, its just an unfortunate illness.
I would post a link but I cant be bothered so I will just pretend I did instead, thats not a problem I assume

[Juan_Bottom]

Uh... Didn't Mineta say that Cheney was already at the PEOC? The PEOC is part of the White House, not the Pentagon.

I think I got that backwards....

[Juan_Bottom]

I think people get too caught up in the speculation. Like "how did they do it???" We don't really have a clue. What we know is that the story doesn't work... and we are going from there.

Since there are no answer for these important questions, the theory on the whole gets dismissed.


Questions Neoteny? All I can do is help you to toss out certain accepted "truths."

Does no one believe Cheny lied?--If we start there, then you have to wonder, what was the "target?"

You lied and are still doing so !
Its ok though , I forgive you because I just read an interesting article explaining that conspiracy truthers cannot help themselves, its just an unfortunate illness.
I would post a link but I cant be bothered so I will just pretend I did instead, thats not a problem I assume

Backglass wrote:
Again, your theory takes THOUSANDS of accomplices.
Juan_Bottom wrote:
No, a couple hundred max. And it's easy in this big world to make a hundred people disappear. Rmember, firefightes have testified that they saw bodies inside tower 7.

And that was just on page 29. Right at the start. I want an apology. And another one for each smily.

[joecoolfrog]

Swivel dunce boy

[Snorri1234]

Uh... Didn't Mineta say that Cheney was already at the PEOC? The PEOC is part of the White House, not the Pentagon.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Emergency_Operations_Center

Word.

[heavycola]

Are we all going to dismiss the fact that Cheny lied so blatently? Why?

As did Bush. But we will ignore that. It's NOT important. We all must accept whatever our government tells us, to not do so would make us (shudder) "unpatriotic" (shudder).

er, jay - neither joe, me or snorri are american, and speaking for myself i couldn't give a toss whether my behaviour is un-american or not, which you would realise if you thought about anything ever. And i'm pretty sure neoteny is no neocon apologist either.

jay - i think the point is, that except for you, we have all thought hard about this. I used to buy some of this stuff until i looked into it for myself. And by 'looked into it for myself' i don't mean 'watched other troofers' youtube videos by myself and then logged on to infowars.com'. Alex Jones has been proven elsewhere in this thread to be a peddler of lies, by the way. He has not one ounce of credibility left.

There is not one shred of evidence strong enough to suggest anything like a conspiracy. At the moment you and juan appear to be hinging the entire thing on something cheney might have said - unsurprising when every other 'fact' either of you have presented has been shown to be misinformed or plain false.

[Juan_Bottom]

At the moment you and juan appear to be hinging the entire thing on something cheney might have said

Did say!.... anyway, my whole beef hinges upon circumstancial evidences, mostly. A little bit of science, and witness testimony too. But we aren't going anywhere with this thread. I say we start over, or abandon it. How about I post a short list of my biggest hang ups, and you all go down the list at your leisure? Then I'll shut up?

Of course I still want my apology from JoeCoolFrog and Comic Boy.

Deal-eo?

[heavycola]

At the moment you and juan appear to be hinging the entire thing on something cheney might have said

Did say!.... anyway, my whole beef hinges upon circumstancial evidences, mostly. A little bit of science, and witness testimony too. But we aren't going anywhere with this thread. I say we start over, or abandon it. How about I post a short list of my biggest hang ups, and you all go down the list at your leisure? Then I'll shut up?

we have gone loads of places with this thread! We have debunked the marvin bush stuff, the sniffer dog stuff, the willie brown stuff. We've shown alex jones up to be a fraud. We've provided reasonable answers to questions about NORAD's response, as well as the collpase of tower 7. I'd say that's a long way.

But sure - give us a list of your top hang-ups, accompanied by source material from which each claim is drawn (this is only fair, and as you said, you hate speculation).

[Pedronicus]

AM I ON YOUR IGNORE LIST Si?

I'm still waiting for an answer

HC - answer me a question regarding 9/11.

What was the advantage of all security footage of the Pentagon impact, being removed from public view?
As far as I see it, the CIA have fueled these 9/11 conspiracy theories.

WHY?

[joecoolfrog]

At the moment you and juan appear to be hinging the entire thing on something cheney might have said

Did say!.... anyway, my whole beef hinges upon circumstancial evidences, mostly. A little bit of science, and witness testimony too. But we aren't going anywhere with this thread. I say we start over, or abandon it. How about I post a short list of my biggest hang ups, and you all go down the list at your leisure? Then I'll shut up?

Of course I still want my apology from JoeCoolFrog and Comic Boy.

Deal-eo?

As I said before 'troofers syndrome' is a disease so im prepared to give you the benefit of the doubt and accept that you were confused rather than deliberately lying , appology extended on that basis However I shouldn't hold your breath waiting for the boy, he barely talks to anybody below colonel at the best of times

[heavycola]

AM I ON YOUR IGNORE LIST Si?

I'm still waiting for an answer

HC - answer me a question regarding 9/11.

What was the advantage of all security footage of the Pentagon impact, being removed from public view?
As far as I see it, the CIA have fueled these 9/11 conspiracy theories.

WHY?

haha no course not. I got carried away.

have to answer with another couple of questions:
why would security footage of the pentagon ever be on public view?
And why would the CIA give a toss about pandering to the confused fantasies of the tinfoil hatters?

[Snorri1234]

AM I ON YOUR IGNORE LIST Si?

I'm still waiting for an answer

HC - answer me a question regarding 9/11.

What was the advantage of all security footage of the Pentagon impact, being removed from public view?
As far as I see it, the CIA have fueled these 9/11 conspiracy theories.

WHY?

haha no course not. I got carried away.

have to answer with another couple of questions:
why would security footage of the pentagon ever be on public view?
And why would the CIA give a toss about pandering to the confused fantasies of the tinfoil hatters?

You haven't seen that southpark episode?

[Neoteny]

Uh... Didn't Mineta say that Cheney was already at the PEOC? The PEOC is part of the White House, not the Pentagon.

I think I got that backwards....

So... how did Cheney lie then?

[Dancing Mustard]

On a matress, in the foetal position.

[jay_a2j]

Are we all going to dismiss the fact that Cheny lied so blatently? Why?

As did Bush. But we will ignore that. It's NOT important. We all must accept whatever our government tells us, to not do so would make us (shudder) "unpatriotic" (shudder).

er, jay - neither joe, me or snorri are american, and speaking for myself i couldn't give a toss whether my behaviour is un-american or not, which you would realise if you thought about anything ever. And i'm pretty sure neoteny is no neocon apologist either.

jay - i think the point is, that except for you, we have all thought hard about this. I used to buy some of this stuff until i looked into it for myself. And by 'looked into it for myself' i don't mean 'watched other troofers' youtube videos by myself and then logged on to infowars.com'. Alex Jones has been proven elsewhere in this thread to be a peddler of lies, by the way. He has not one ounce of credibility left.

There is not one shred of evidence strong enough to suggest anything like a conspiracy. At the moment you and juan appear to be hinging the entire thing on something cheney might have said - unsurprising when every other 'fact' either of you have presented has been shown to be misinformed or plain false.

If you can answer these questions convincingly, I will drop this whole thing.

1. How did the towers fall into their own footprint at near free fall speed just like a demolition yet not be a demolition?

2. Why 7 years after 911 has the public not seen 1 video of the plane that hit the pentagon, when there were 50 something camera's in the area, which the FBI confiscated within 20 minutes of the attack?

3. Upon hearing that the second tower was hit, why did Bush sit in that classroom for another 20 minutes, not fearful at all that his whereabouts were well known and that he might be in danger?

4. Why did Bush lie about seeing the FIRST plane hit on TV outside the classroom before he went in, when there was NO LIVE COVERAGE of the first plane hitting?

5. How does a terrorist passport (made of paper) survive the attack? And how did the government get the list of the 19 hijackers so fast? Is it true that some of them have been spotted alive?

6. Why was the debris from the WTC attack immediately shipped overseas before it could be examined for evidence?

Juan feel free to add to the list.


I want answers. And answers that make sense.

[Pedronicus]

have to answer with another couple of questions:
why would security footage of the pentagon ever be on public view?
And why would the CIA give a toss about pandering to the confused fantasies of the tinfoil hatters?

Q1 - To add some weight to the argument that it was a plane not a missile
Q2 - Because Bush and Co. are in charge of the CIA and having conspiracy theorists flinging 'It was the government' around doesn't help in getting re elected.

of all the targets hit by a commercial airliner piloted by people with a limited amount of flying time, the 5 storey pentagon is much harder to hit than a 110 storey skyscraper or crashing it into the ground.
I would of expected a pilot of their abilities to slam it into the ground a long way out or even miss it totally.

I mean, it's wide but not very tall...

Therefore i would of expected two big grooves in the soil as the engines hit/scraped the earth as it flew into the building.

[jay_a2j]

have to answer with another couple of questions:
why would security footage of the pentagon ever be on public view?
And why would the CIA give a toss about pandering to the confused fantasies of the tinfoil hatters?

Q1 - To add some weight to the argument that it was a plane not a missile
Q2 - Because Bush and Co. are in charge of the CIA and having conspiracy theorists flinging 'It was the government' around doesn't help in getting re elected.

of all the targets hit by a commercial airliner piloted by people with a limited amount of flying time, the 5 storey pentagon is much harder to hit than a 110 storey skyscraper or crashing it into the ground.
I would of expected a pilot of their abilities to slam it into the ground a long way out or even miss it totally.

Exactly!

[Snorri1234]

Is it true that some of them have been spotted alive?

Yes. The list was not accurate, probably because they did it so fast.

[Snorri1234]

have to answer with another couple of questions:
why would security footage of the pentagon ever be on public view?
And why would the CIA give a toss about pandering to the confused fantasies of the tinfoil hatters?

Q1 - To add some weight to the argument that it was a plane not a missile
Q2 - Because Bush and Co. are in charge of the CIA and having conspiracy theorists flinging 'It was the government' around doesn't help in getting re elected.

of all the targets hit by a commercial airliner piloted by people with a limited amount of flying time, the 5 storey pentagon is much harder to hit than a 110 storey skyscraper or crashing it into the ground.
I would of expected a pilot of their abilities to slam it into the ground a long way out or even miss it totally.

Yeah the pentagon shit is rather weird.

[Pedronicus]

Now I don't know how true this picture is

but that is a well fixed no parking sign! lol Was it put up with?