9/11 Conspiracies(threads merged)

[Dancing Mustard]

And yet I still don't hear any sensible rebuttal of the "Paperwork Problem".

Plenty of blah blah blah about illusions and about how upset Jay is that I regard his youtube videos as coming from the mouths of lunatics... but still no sensible answer to the "where is the paper-trail" question.

Seriously Jay, are you just here to troll and to make pseudo-cryptic remarks. Or do you have something to add to this debate.

[heavycola]

Oh that is so good. JAY please read that link by cola.
Every word of it true, especially the stuff about unimportant people trying to give there lives meaning.
Thanks Cola.

No, not "every word of it is true". He said it was his "theory". And way off I might add. I do not find any "thrill" in suspecting my government has a hidden agenda. That they will stop at nothing to push a new world order. I rarely have dreams,(that I remember) so that point is moot. My life has meaning, in Christ- there is no higher meaning. Nice try, just plain wrong.

CHarlie Brooker is a wind-up merchant and a humourist, remember, although i do agree with practically every word he wrote.

His point about the bureaucracy is spot on. How do you, or Juan, explain it?
here is a pretty good list of all those who would need to be involved in this conspiracy - and yet not one of them has cracked in seven years. It's a HUGE flaw in your case. HUGE.

EDIT: this list is too short - it fails to mention the entire news division of the BBC, who knew tower 7 was going to fall 20 minutes before it happened

[joecoolfrog]

Let's see if this works (I know it won't, but humor me)

Complaint!!!! Flaming me and those on youtube ("no matter how small it is")

Even though Jay might not be able to string a coherent argument together

I'm sure he'll be able to find a couple of youtube crackpots who can't answer the question either.

How is it possible joe? To create such a grand illusion? Well, you start my accepting that its not an illusion.

Extraordinary as it might seem you appear to have got hold of the wrong end of the straw What is not an illusion Jay ?

[Backglass]

My life has meaning, in Christ- there is no higher meaning. Nice try, just plain wrong.

I believe you 100%. Without your superstitions and conspiracies your life would have no meaning and you would fall into despair. You need direction, as you are unable to make it on your own. So you cling to these theories and stories in order to survive and make it through the day.

Whatever it takes I guess...

[Juan_Bottom]

Why is everyone attacking Jay???


Sorry if that isn't the right vid, I can't watch them. The point is, NORAD was very aware of the situation, yet never responded.
Anyway, look at it this way.

A) Cheny lied.
B) NORAD's ability to take down planes is directly controlled by Bush/Cheny alone...
C) Mineta testified about Cheny Lieing, and his comments were removed from the official record
D) Mineta testified that Cheny was PROBABLY discussing/tracking flight 77(or whatever struck the Pentagon). Because when the "target" was around the zero marker, the Pentagon was struck.
E) Flight 77 was NOT shot down
F) Yet Cheny was tracking the flight all the way to the Pentagon? What was "The order?"


And it isn't about just WILLIE BROWN. The point is that top Pentagon officials were warned also. Yet when the attacks started happening, no one did jack about them. If they knew ahead of time, WTF were they doing?

[DaGip]

Just shutup, and do as you're told!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgYFo79q1Ek

[jay_a2j]

What is not an illusion Jay ?

Maybe what you were talking about here:

So just answer the main point, how is it logistically possible to create such a grand illusion ?

[Jenos Ridan]

Now instead of you floating tiny snippets that fall apart at the slightest investigation, I reckon you should explain a couple of big HOW questions about the whole thing. You could start with:

- The conspiracy had to involve politicians, the military, the police, the New York Port Authority, the media, security guards, rescue workers, civilians at work in the pentagon, an army of demolition experts, firefighters, United Airlines, eyewitnesses - and yet, 3,000 deaths and seven years later, no one has cracked. A conspiracy of thousands has remained absolutely tight-lipped for seven years. How is this possible?
The conspiracy theorists have managed to dig dirt on the "super-secret" bilderbergers, the masons, etc etc but no one has managed to tease a 'yes, i was told to keep my mouth shut' story from even an NYPD cop? Seriously? Explain please.

The lynchpin to the theory: absolute operational silence.

History has shown that even the smallest operation has been very difficult to hide. If the CIA cannot keep leaks from forming which concern day-to-day operations (fairly low-importance), how do you keep absolute secrecy about a plot to kill thousands, in the view of thousands more, for the sole purpose of setting a pretence to lay blame on a "pre-set" scapegoat?

Answer: the conspiracy never happened. Islamic Terrorists flew hijacked planes into US buildings. JUST GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!!!!!!one!!!11111!!!!oneityone1one!!!!

[joecoolfrog]

What is not an illusion Jay ?

Maybe what you were talking about here:

So just answer the main point, how is it logistically possible to create such a grand illusion ?

Right so the grand illusion is that the US Government ( or its associates ) planned a hoax terrorist attack on its own soil involving mass loss of life. Thousands of people would have been involved in the planning/execution and cover up including the fall guys, an extremist Islamic terror organisation and of course the leaders/secret services of all the major nations of the World.......So once again how is this logistically possible ?

[heavycola]

Why is everyone attacking Jay???


Sorry if that isn't the right vid, I can't watch them. The point is, NORAD was very aware of the situation, yet never responded.
Anyway, look at it this way.

A) Cheny lied.
B) NORAD's ability to take down planes is directly controlled by Bush/Cheny alone...
C) Mineta testified about Cheny Lieing, and his comments were removed from the official record
D) Mineta testified that Cheny was PROBABLY discussing/tracking flight 77(or whatever struck the Pentagon). Because when the "target" was around the zero marker, the Pentagon was struck.
E) Flight 77 was NOT shot down
F) Yet Cheny was tracking the flight all the way to the Pentagon? What was "The order?"

Let's start again. The order was to shoot down the plane.
let's see why this might not have been done:
Pilots confused at an order to shoot down comercial airliner over washington
airliners 'hidden' in amongst hundreds of aircraft in some of the busiest airspace on the planet, their transponders turned off
A lack of leadership
...
reasonable doubt? HELL yeah!

And it isn't about just WILLIE BROWN. The point is that top Pentagon officials were warned also. Yet when the attacks started happening, no one did jack about them. If they knew ahead of time, WTF were they doing?

The primary source material for this claim abotu penatgon officials came from Newsweek magazine. Here it is:

Ever since the Customs Service foiled an apparent bomb plot on the eve of the millennium, U.S. intelligence has been very edgy about an attack on America. The man caught crossing between British Columbia and Seattle with explosives and timers in his car, Ahmed Ressam, later confessed that he planned to blow up Los Angeles International Airport. Ressam allegedly worked for a shadowy group of Algerian terrorists with ties to bin Laden. Twice a week, the “Threat Committee,” a group of top intelligence officials and diplomats, meets in the White House complex to review dozens of terrorist threats at home and abroad.
In late June the CIA warned of possible terrorist action against U.S. targets, including those in the United States, for the Fourth of July. Nothing happened, but then in July the agency again warned about possible attacks overseas. The threat seemed grave enough to force U.S. ships in Middle Eastern ports to head for sea. Three weeks ago there was another warning that a terrorist strike might be imminent. But there was no mention of where. On Sept. 10, NEWSWEEK has learned, a group of top Pentagon officials suddenly canceled travel plans for the next morning, apparently because of security concerns.

So... in a period apparently characterised by grave security threats, some officials changed some travel plans on the advice of intelligence? So what?
Interestingly, the mention of the possible overseas attacks shines a light on teh nature of military intelligence as I understand it - often fuzzy and non-specific. They didnt; know which ships in which ports were under threat, so they put them all out to sea. See what i mean?
Whereas your typical troofer mistake is to assume that because their travel plans were changed, these unnamed 'officials' (where were they travelling to? what were their jobs?) knew the twin towers were about to be attacked?
How do you make that assumption?

[jay_a2j]

What is not an illusion Jay ?

Maybe what you were talking about here:

So just answer the main point, how is it logistically possible to create such a grand illusion ?

Right so the grand illusion is that the US Government ( or its associates ) planned a hoax terrorist attack on its own soil involving mass loss of life. Thousands of people would have been involved in the planning/execution and cover up including the fall guys, an extremist Islamic terror organisation and of course the leaders/secret services of all the major nations of the World.......So once again how is this logistically possible ?

You must have a Media that is a willing accomplice. (Actually this issue is on the back burner, 2012 is gonna mess up their plans somewhat and the USA's days are numbered.)

[heavycola]

What is not an illusion Jay ?

Maybe what you were talking about here:

So just answer the main point, how is it logistically possible to create such a grand illusion ?

Right so the grand illusion is that the US Government ( or its associates ) planned a hoax terrorist attack on its own soil involving mass loss of life. Thousands of people would have been involved in the planning/execution and cover up including the fall guys, an extremist Islamic terror organisation and of course the leaders/secret services of all the major nations of the World.......So once again how is this logistically possible ?

You must have a Media that is a willing accomplice.

:wearily takes bait:

you mean media like:
Newsweek, who reported the bit about pentagon officials changing their travel plans?
Or the SF Chronicle, that reported the Willie Brown story?
Or Google-owned Youtube, that disseminates every conspiracy theory under the sun?
Or the History Channel, owned by a consortium that includeds Disney and Fox, that broadcast the discrepancies in NORAD and NEAD's stories that Juan pointed out?

or are you suggesting that every reporter that has worked on 9/11 stories in every major news outlet on the planet is a part of this conspiracy of silence? it gets bigger and bigger!

[Backglass]

The lynchpin to the theory: absolute operational silence.

History has shown that even the smallest operation has been very difficult to hide. If the CIA cannot keep leaks from forming which concern day-to-day operations (fairly low-importance), how do you keep absolute secrecy about a plot to kill thousands, in the view of thousands more, for the sole purpose of setting a pretence to lay blame on a "pre-set" scapegoat?

Answer: the conspiracy never happened. Islamic Terrorists flew hijacked planes into US buildings. JUST GET OVER IT ALREADY!!!!!!!!one!!!11111!!!!oneityone1one!!!!

This is exactly my stance as well.

These theories, if true, would involve THOUSANDS of people. Yet it remains air tight. Are these robots? Humans with no concience? Jay and the tin-foil hat crowd always de-humanize it by saying "The Government" did this and "The Media" did that. Well, your government & media is made of people. Americans with kids and families. They aren't clones or automatons.

Out of the thousands necessary to pull this off...not one is disgruntled? Not one wants to be a millionaire from the movie & book rights? Not ONE feels the slightest bit bad about killing thousands of fellow Americans?

Please...some people watch way too many movies.

[joecoolfrog]

Jay has now discovered another magical omnipotent creature called ' The Media '


I shouldn't really mock Jay, but from now on my standard response to Jays crap will simply be

[suggs]

Jay has now discovered another magical omnipotent creature called ' The Media '


I shouldn't really mockJay, but from now on my standard response to Jays crap will simply be

*Ellis Redding voice over stylee* Wait a while....i tried that , the "bless, Jay he's just a mentalist" approach. But trust me on this , in only a few days you wil be SCREAMING IN FRUSTRATION at his amazing ability to back up each absurd theory with another all embracing non theory.

For instance:
"But WHY would the media cover 9/11 up, Jay?"
"Media is controlled by Lzardmen Suggs"

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH.

[jonesthecurl]

Finally we get to the truth. By missing out a comma there, you admitted that you are indeed the "lizardmen Suggs" yourself.
I, incidentally, am the egg-man.

[Frigidus]

Finally we get to the truth. By missing out a comma there, you admitted that you are indeed the "lizardmen Suggs" yourself.
I, incidentally, am the egg-man.

Suggs is only the newest of a string of CCers who have claimed responsibility for 9/11. It comes as no surprise to me.

[Dancing Mustard]

Finally we get to the truth. By missing out a comma there, you admitted that you are indeed the "lizardmen Suggs" yourself.
I, incidentally, am the egg-man.

...and I, am the Walrus.

[Juan_Bottom]

Whereas your typical troofer mistake is to assume that because their travel plans were changed, these unnamed 'officials' (where were they travelling to? what were their jobs?) knew the twin towers were about to be attacked?
How do you make that assumption?

The evidence as presented is circumstantial. If these Pentagon officials, and Willie Brown too, Where concerned ENOUGH to cancel their own flights on Sept 11, then why where they taken completely by surprise by the attacks?

And I have yet to actually see a lack of leadership. Even If I take your version of accounts. NORAD knew about these missing planes right away(original report lied), and Cheny himself was doing 'something.'

[jay_a2j]

Complaint!!!! Flaming outside of flame wars "no matter how small it is"

Jay has now discovered another magical omnipotent creature called ' The Media '


I shouldn't really mock Jay, but from now on my standard response to Jays crap will simply be

[Juan_Bottom]

Complaint!!!! Flaming outside of flame wars "no matter how small it is"

Jay has now discovered another magical omnipotent creature called ' The Media '


I shouldn't really mock Jay, but from now on my standard response to Jays crap will simply be

Yeah!!!! That guy is being a dick!!!!!

[GrimReaper.]

the terriorts did crash the plane but bush had all the means nessecary to stop the attack in the first place

EX 1. FIRST DAY IN OFFICE HE WAS GIVEN A BRIEF ON HOW TERRORIST WOULD USE PLANES IN A POSSIBLE TERROR ATTACK ON THE US!!

hmmmmmm fishy isnt?

[clapper011]

keep the flames out guys

[joecoolfrog]

How terribly frustrating it is to seek information and recieve only silence......I think we can safely now assume that these conspiracy claims are without substance

[joecoolfrog]

Complaint!!!! Flaming outside of flame wars "no matter how small it is"

Jay has now discovered another magical omnipotent creature called ' The Media '


I shouldn't really mock Jay, but from now on my standard response to crap will simply be

Yeah!!!! That guy is being a dick!!!!!