Faith

[Backglass]

I have stopped smoking for a time and then had what is called a "relapse".

You must not have prayed hard enough. Try better next time. The again, perhaps god wants you to die of cancer. He does work in mysterious ways.

You don't KNOW that! If there was an effort to teach kids to ABSTAIN.

Sorry...I guess I didnt go in depth enough. Of course my sister told them to abstain during the sex-talk years. They both KNEW all about that YEARS ago. But the deal was, "If YOU decide you need them (TRANSLATION FOR JAY-"DECIDE TO HAVE SEX"), come to me". And they did. The instruction time had passed. The stage set. The parenting complete. They didnt WANT preaching or finger shaking or "God will hate you" speeches. They knew what was going on, and understood the consequences.

Because if they did Planned Parenthood would lose alot of money! So they hand out condoms, saying "If you're going to do it at least be safe."

Huh? So...cut to the chase jay. Are you saying Planned Parenthood is only out to make money off of pregnant teenagers or something? Dont hold back.

Why not give your kids cavlar vests too? With the warning "If you use a gun at least be safe." This is non-sense. You don't tell someone shooting someone is wrong then hand them a .28 special.

And I'm the one with the misguided notions? I never realized that my sister was handing her daughters a loaded penis.

Evidently she did a bang up job. Her oldest is married (no kids yet), and a chemist (and married that guy from High School by the way). Her youngest is a graphic artists. Neither had to have abortions, neither had kids out of wedlock, and neither are pole dancers.

[OnlyAmbrose]

What really makes me sad about this whole issue is that sex is LOSING its meaning. I guess it's just not worth waiting for anymore.

[Caleb the Cruel]

this thread has become another Logic Dictates That There Is A God thread
i was hoping it wouldn't have to be like that...
I think you should move this entire conversation(which I haven't read since about page 4) to the Logic Dictates... thread, please

[vtmarik]

Now vt, do you think premarital sex, as a whole, is a bad thing (even if protected)? Just so I can formulate arguments a bit better, I need to know what we're arguing about

Premarital sex? I'm for it!

But to answer your question more seriously, I think the question of "Should teens have sex" is best left to parents and the kids. If the parent is psycho against any education about sex, then the kid's gonna get some girl pregnant if and when he has sex. If the kid is educated about sex, regardless of how he's raised, it helps him have the foreknowledge about what to do.

I'm not saying that teaching your kids to abstain is a bad thing, just don't expect it to be foolproof. If we want to keep our kids safe, give them condoms. It's a safety measure. It's the school saying "Don't have sex, but in the emergency case that it ends up happening here's something that'll keep you a little safer than going without."

I'm for it simply because there are a lot of situations where the mind shuts off and the instinct to have sex takes over. If the condom is in your pocket, then you'll have a physical reminder to stay safe.

If you teach your kids to abstain, that's all groovy. But if your son gets someone pregnant because they had sex, don't go crying to the school talking about 'promoting sexuality.'

While some may interpret it differently *COUGHjayCOUGH* distribution of condoms isn't saying "Go and have sex," it's saying "In the event that you end up having sex, use this and stay safe." It's like giving someone a can of mace and saying "If someone comes up to you trying to attack you, use this and stay safe."

Any interpretation to the contrary is alarmist and hyperbolic at best, and downright ridiculous at worst.

[jay_a2j]

It's like giving someone a can of mace and saying "If someone comes up to you trying to attack you, use this and stay safe."

No, because spaying someone with mace isn't sin. Sex is, with or without condoms, before marriage.

[vtmarik]

No, because spaying someone with mace isn't sin. Sex is, with or without condoms, before marriage.

Not being a Christian, I don't believe in sin. Sin is just stupid guilt to me, no more real than the threefold rule in Wicca.

And I'm not talking about sin, I'm talking about practicality. Working on Sunday is a sin, how about you go down to your local Blockbuster Video and browbeat them for a day?

[jay_a2j]

Working on Sunday is a sin, how about you go down to your local Blockbuster Video and browbeat them for a day?

Hmmmm, you might have an idea there.....

[strike wolf]

No, because spaying someone with mace isn't sin. Sex is, with or without condoms, before marriage.

Not being a Christian, I don't believe in sin. Sin is just stupid guilt to me, no more real than the threefold rule in Wicca.

And I'm not talking about sin, I'm talking about practicality. Working on Sunday is a sin, how about you go down to your local Blockbuster Video and browbeat them for a day?

Everybody does stuff on Sundays now. that has been outdated for years. And we don't go to blockbuster.

[vtmarik]

Everybody does stuff on Sundays now. that has been outdated for years. And we don't go to blockbuster.

So working on sundays isn't a sin anymore? Then why is premarital sex a sin still? Does it have a longer shelf life? Was it renewed?

[cowshrptrn]

It's like giving someone a can of mace and saying "If someone comes up to you trying to attack you, use this and stay safe."

No, because spaying someone with mace isn't sin. Sex is, with or without condoms, before marriage.

Fortunately furries weren't around when the bible was written, or you'd need to repent for your icon.

If its a sin either way, and they're going to do it either way why not educate them so they don't get pregnant or an STD.

[vtmarik]

If its a sin either way, and they're going to do it either way why not educate them so they don't get pregnant or an STD.

Good question, considering that the sin happens even without sex ("Lust in your heart is still a sin").

[strike wolf]

Everybody does stuff on Sundays now. that has been outdated for years. And we don't go to blockbuster.

So working on sundays isn't a sin anymore? Then why is premarital sex a sin still? Does it have a longer shelf life? Was it renewed?

It just wasn't practical, people like farmers need to work 7 days a week to keep up.

[vtmarik]

It just wasn't practical, people like farmers need to work 7 days a week to keep up.

Sounds like a fun confession, "Bless me father, for I worked to support my family and keep them fed on Sunday"

[OnlyAmbrose]

Now vt, do you think premarital sex, as a whole, is a bad thing (even if protected)? Just so I can formulate arguments a bit better, I need to know what we're arguing about

Premarital sex? I'm for it!

But to answer your question more seriously, I think the question of "Should teens have sex" is best left to parents and the kids. If the parent is psycho against any education about sex, then the kid's gonna get some girl pregnant if and when he has sex. If the kid is educated about sex, regardless of how he's raised, it helps him have the foreknowledge about what to do.

I'm not saying that teaching your kids to abstain is a bad thing, just don't expect it to be foolproof. If we want to keep our kids safe, give them condoms. It's a safety measure. It's the school saying "Don't have sex, but in the emergency case that it ends up happening here's something that'll keep you a little safer than going without."

I'm for it simply because there are a lot of situations where the mind shuts off and the instinct to have sex takes over. If the condom is in your pocket, then you'll have a physical reminder to stay safe.

If you teach your kids to abstain, that's all groovy. But if your son gets someone pregnant because they had sex, don't go crying to the school talking about 'promoting sexuality.'

While some may interpret it differently *COUGHjayCOUGH* distribution of condoms isn't saying "Go and have sex," it's saying "In the event that you end up having sex, use this and stay safe." It's like giving someone a can of mace and saying "If someone comes up to you trying to attack you, use this and stay safe."

Any interpretation to the contrary is alarmist and hyperbolic at best, and downright ridiculous at worst.

Vt, in a previous post you were speaking of your understanding of teenage minds, and i guess you hit it on the head there, but in the bolded paragraph you have it all wrong. Maybe to your educated mind that's not what it's saying, but to a high school kid in school, a government institution giving out what has become something of a symbol of sexuality is basically saying "it's ok to have sex."

If it's truly up to the parents and teens, why not let the parents buy the kids condoms? Giving them out at school does nothing but encourage kids to do it, and what's more gives them a quite easy way to do it behind their parents' backs.

[vtmarik]

Vt, in a previous post you were speaking of your understanding of teenage minds, and i guess you hit it on the head there, but in the bolded paragraph you have it all wrong. Maybe to your educated mind that's not what it's saying, but to a high school kid in school, a government institution giving out what has become something of a symbol of sexuality is basically saying "it's ok to have sex."

If it's truly up to the parents and teens, why not let the parents buy the kids condoms? Giving them out at school does nothing but encourage kids to do it, and what's more gives them a quite easy way to do it behind their parents' backs.

I was referring to the spirit behind the project, not the interpretation.

How is the parent buying them different from the school distributing them? That 4.95 could be used towards gas or a rental for family movie night.

Meh, you've got a point, it's just late and I'm trying to be weird...

[mightyal]

The point of giving condoms out at school is so kids with parents like jay don't have their lives ruined. They will have suffered enough already without being forced to have children they don't want because their parents deny them the information to make informed choices.

[vtmarik]

The point of giving condoms out at school is so kids with parents like jay don't have their lives ruined. They will have suffered enough already without being forced to have children they don't want because their parents deny them the information to make informed choices.

That too.

[Knight of Orient]

But we are bein given the green light! You give out condoms, we think, "Its OKAY!"


Please, tell me, there has to be a better way.

[Backglass]

It just wasn't practical, people like farmers need to work 7 days a week to keep up.

WHOAH....It wasnt practical? Like birth control isnt practical? How about that "hate the homosexuals" part...is that practical? I LOVE how you guys change your own rules to make life a little easier. Such a hypocritical orginization.

"EVERYTHING IN THIS BOOK IS GODS LAW! IT MUST BE FOLLOWED! Except for this part right here...it's not very practical, so it doesnt count."

[Backglass]

But we are bein given the green light! You give out condoms, we think, "Its OKAY!"


Please, tell me, there has to be a better way.

OK. Dont have sex. But if you must, please use a condom. You can buy all you want at the corner drug store...or over the internet arriving at your home in a plain brown wrapper.

Seriously...this condom thing is so silly.

[jay_a2j]

The point of giving condoms out at school is so kids with parents like jay don't have their lives ruined.

Thats where I thought this was going. It is people like mightyal that will one day welcome with open arms the Govornment taking complete control.

Since WHEN does the school know how to raise MY kids better then ME? You know, not all parents are telling little Johnnie an Cathy to go have sex cause their going to "do it anyways". There are some parents out there, believe it or not, who are raising their children with MORALS! (I guess all those parents are runing their childrens lives as well)

[Backglass]

Since WHEN does the school know how to raise MY kids better then ME? You know, not all parents are telling little Johnnie an Cathy to go have sex cause their going to "do it anyways". There are some parents out there, believe it or not, who are raising their children with MORALS! (I guess all those parents are runing their childrens lives as well)

Since WHEN does the school know how to raise MY kids better then ME? You know, not all parents are telling little Johnnie and Cathy to go PRAY IN SCHOOL. There are some parents out there, believe it or not, who are raising their children without FAIRY TALES!

Gotcha jay. But thats different isnt it.

Also "Little Johnny" has a beard & "Little Cathy" has a monthly menstrual cycle, they arent handing out condoms to 3rd graders...but I digress.

No condoms, No prayer. I would be fine with that.

[jay_a2j]

Since WHEN does the school know how to raise MY kids better then ME? You know, not all parents are telling little Johnnie an Cathy to go have sex cause their going to "do it anyways". There are some parents out there, believe it or not, who are raising their children with MORALS! (I guess all those parents are runing their childrens lives as well)

Since WHEN does the school know how to raise MY kids better then ME? You know, not all parents are telling little Johnnie and Cathy to go PRAY IN SCHOOL. There are some parents out there, believe it or not, who are raising their children without FAIRY TALES!

Gotcha jay. But thats different isnt it.



No condoms, No prayer. I would be fine with that.



Also "Little Johnny" has a beard & "Little Cathy" has a monthly menstrual cycle, they arent handing out condoms to 3rd graders...but I digress.

No, you didn't "Get me". School prayer was ALWAYS an option! No one was ever FORCED to pray! During the moment of silence you're athieist kid could think about his Science test later that day instead of pray! What YOU are insinuating is that YOUR kid is offended by a kid standing next to him PRAYING! What's it to him?????



Really? Then all these reports I'm hearing where elementary school children are being show how to "put condoms on bananas" must be false

[heavycola]

Then all these reports I'm hearing where elementary school children are being show how to "put condoms on bananas" must be false

SO WHAT? Since when is learning how to use a condom a bad thing? Why is sex such a massive issue for you? Possibly because your beliefs are rooted in a biblical morality that a lot of people don't care for or agree with, yet which you and your godbotherer buddies seem compelled to force on the rest of us (see 90% of threads in this forum - Harry Potter titles?? FFS).
If my child decides to follow jesus, that's up to him/her. But I am sure as hell going to make sure they are prepared for whatever life throws at them, whether it's the class hottie coming onto them at camp, dealing with the maelstrom of adolescent emotions or simply filtering out the rubbish that religious leaders talk and thinking for themselves.


And don't pretend you didn't complain about the 10 commandents being taken down from classroom walls. Backglass makes a good point.

[2dimes]

I wouldn't have a problem with sending my spawns to a school that displayed the ten commandments and showed how to put a condom on a bannana, or a realistic dildo for that matter.

Like you say Heavy you don't know how your children are going to choose to live. They may be devout followers of any religion out there or just the opposite.

I think education should be about presenting usefull information. In certain cercumstances both the ten comandments and how to put on a condom are solid skills that may be needed.

I think even if a person believes completely that the bible is just a book they have to admit the ten comandments (less the ones pertaining to a diety) are pretty solid.

Don't steal.
Don't murder.
Don't cheat on your spouse.
Honour your parents.
Don't tell lies about others to incriminate them.

Maybe it should be five or six, but I don't think there's anything particularly foul about displaying the ones that wouldn't make sense without believing that there is a God.

Like
Don't have other ones before him.
Relax and pray on saturday.
Don't make statues and pretend they're a God.
Don't want anything that belongs to someone else.
and
Don't misuse his name.

Maybe I've got some screws loose, but I don't see a problem with my kids being told about things like that even at school.

Sure I have a problem with someone using a dramatic voice and mannerism to tell my three year old that if she doesn't obey them she'll be cast into the lake of fire.

I also think I have a responsibility to talk to my kids about people like that and explain that they don't have to be afraid of someone that comes from the "God is gonna git you sucka." church.

I may be way off here but it seems like parents are not telling their kids that a simple thing like stealing is wrong or it's only wrong sometimes.