Israel.... For or Against?

[jay_a2j]

I think it's a pretty broad generalisation to say that:

"the Muslims want control of Jerusalem" and also to say that "the Christians/Jews want access to Jerusalem".

I think the majority of Muslims, Christians and Jews don't really want control or access to Jerusalem. There are more Jews outside of Israel than in Israel and the largest Muslim country (in terms of population) is Indonesia - which is nowhere near Jerusalem.

I think it would be more accurate to say that the Arab states surrounding Israel want control of Israel but I also think Israel clearly wants control of the surrounding Arab states - hence the incursions into Lebannon.

no ,arabs just want the land back

Again with the generalisations...

Surely the only "Arabs" that want their land back are the "Palestinians" and the refugees. I would be fairly confident that the Arabs in Sudan haven't had any land taken.

Palestine isn't an official state and I think what the "Palestinian" people want is different to what the Arab states want. I was particularly referring to countries like Iran and Syria. Obviously the current and most relevent Israel conflict is the one involving Lebannon - which was a conflict involving Hezbollah which is not made of people who "want their land back" although, as I understand it, they do want to completely eradicate Israel.

Hello? Israel just wants to KEEP the land they have. (Given to them by God...see Old Testament). They attacked Labanon because Hezbolah is there and they had kidnapped Israeli soldiers. They DO NOT want any surrounding land! Just Israel.

[vtmarik]

Land that was taken by them in 1948 from the Palestinians who'd been living there for hundreds of years.

How would you react if you were sitting at home with your family and all of a sudden some asshole with a gun busted in and ordered you and yours to vacate the house, since it was no longer your property anymore because some third party gave away your land?

If you and all your neighbors were evicted in this manner, you'd all be blowing up cars too.

I'm not saying I condone their actions, but I can certainly understand them.

[jay_a2j]

Land that was taken by them in 1948 from the Palestinians who'd been living there for hundreds of years.

How would you react if you were sitting at home with your family and all of a sudden some asshole with a gun busted in and ordered you and yours to vacate the house, since it was no longer your property anymore because some third party gave away your land?

If you and all your neighbors were evicted in this manner, you'd all be blowing up cars too.

I'm not saying I condone their actions, but I can certainly understand them.

Go back to Exodus...where God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. Moses took them out of Egypt to the land now called Isreal. The land BELONGS to the JEWS.

[vtmarik]

Go back to Exodus...where God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. Moses took them out of Egypt to the land now called Isreal. The land BELONGS to the JEWS.

According to common sense, when a group of people are living on a scrap of land for several centuries, that land belongs to that group. Possession is 9/10 of the law as they say. Besides, it wasn't the Bible that signed Palestine (now Israel) over to the disenfranchised Jews left over from the Holocaust, it was the UN. It was the world's way of saying "Sorry we didn't pay attention to what was going on, so here's your traditional land. Oh, don't mind the Muslims, they were just keeping your seats warm."


I'm sorry, I don't care what the Bible says about that land, the genesis of the conflict came when the soldiers descended on Palestine and started throwing people out of their homes. And we support the people who took Palestine away from the Muslims and turned it into Israel. That is why they attacked us on 9/11, and that is why they want us all to die. Had the Palestinians been approached by the UN, there could've been negotiations and the land could have been divided fairly. A just and loving God would've allowed that I think.

[jay_a2j]

Go back to Exodus...where God gave the land of Israel to the Jews. Moses took them out of Egypt to the land now called Isreal. The land BELONGS to the JEWS.

According to common sense, when a group of people are living on a scrap of land for several centuries, that land belongs to that group. Possession is 9/10 of the law as they say. Besides, it wasn't the Bible that signed Palestine (now Israel) over to the disenfranchised Jews left over from the Holocaust, it was the UN. It was the world's way of saying "Sorry we didn't pay attention to what was going on, so here's your traditional land. Oh, don't mind the Muslims, they were just keeping your seats warm."


I'm sorry, I don't care what the Bible says about that land, the genesis of the conflict came when the soldiers descended on Palestine and started throwing people out of their homes. And we support the people who took Palestine away from the Muslims and turned it into Israel. That is why they attacked us on 9/11, and that is why they want us all to die. Had the Palestinians been approached by the UN, there could've been negotiations and the land could have been divided fairly. A just and loving God would've allowed that I think.

Acctually, this just and fair God has already said, "Woe to them that divide the land of Israel."


Try again.

[vtmarik]

Acctually, this just and fair God has already said, "Woe to them that divide the land of Israel."


Try again.

Oh, so you support the idea of innocent men, women and children being stripped of their sense of security and dignity by a bunch of overzealous politicians who wanted good PR.

That's sick man. Sure, God gave Israel to the Jews, but what about the people who were there? A merciful God wouldn't turn a blind eye to their suffering just because the Jews wanted their 'hood back, would He?

[jay_a2j]

Acctually, this just and fair God has already said, "Woe to them that divide the land of Israel."


Try again.

Oh, so you support the idea of innocent men, women and children being stripped of their sense of security and dignity by a bunch of overzealous politicians who wanted good PR.

That's sick man. Sure, God gave Israel to the Jews, but what about the people who were there? A merciful God wouldn't turn a blind eye to their suffering just because the Jews wanted their 'hood back, would He?

Hmmmm lets try and make a connection.... Your Dad gives you a Brand new BMW. While you are down at the beach watching the girls volleyball game some guy steals your BMW. He drives it around for a week before the cops catch him. The cops bring the car to you and you don't accept it? Because "someone else" has OCCUPIED your car for the last week?

[vtmarik]

Hmmmm lets try and make a connection.... Your Dad gives you a Brand new BMW. While you are down at the beach watching the girls volleyball game some guy steals your BMW. He drives it around for a week before the cops catch him. The cops bring the car to you and you don't accept it? Because "someone else" has OCCUPIED your car for the last week?

Someone steals my possession, that I own (the registration is in my name) and I get it back.

Someone settles in land that is largely unused, though it traditionally "belongs" to the Jews, and instead of asking these people to move or relocate you storm into their towns and basically steal their homes.



These are hardly comparable situations, but then again I just remembered that I was talking to the King of the False Dilemmas.

I'm going to sleep now, because I've got better things to do than draw comparisons between two completely different situations and act like they're the same thing. Like talking to Jesus and banging strange and unusual women from other plains of existence.

[Jolly Roger]

Acctually, this just and fair God has already said, "Woe to them that divide the land of Israel."


Try again. :wink:

Oh, so you support the idea of innocent men, women and children being stripped of their sense of security and dignity by a bunch of overzealous politicians who wanted good PR.

That's sick man. Sure, God gave Israel to the Jews, but what about the people who were there? A merciful God wouldn't turn a blind eye to their suffering just because the Jews wanted their 'hood back, would He?

Hmmmm lets try and make a connection.... Your Dad gives you a Brand new BMW. While you are down at the beach watching the girls volleyball game some guy steals your BMW. He drives it around for a week before the cops catch him. The cops bring the car to you and you don't accept it? Because "someone else" has OCCUPIED your car for the last week?

A better analogy might be giving Upstate New York back to the Mohawk and Seneca. How would you feel about that jay?

[jay_a2j]

Acctually, this just and fair God has already said, "Woe to them that divide the land of Israel."


Try again.

Oh, so you support the idea of innocent men, women and children being stripped of their sense of security and dignity by a bunch of overzealous politicians who wanted good PR.

That's sick man. Sure, God gave Israel to the Jews, but what about the people who were there? A merciful God wouldn't turn a blind eye to their suffering just because the Jews wanted their 'hood back, would He?

Hmmmm lets try and make a connection.... Your Dad gives you a Brand new BMW. While you are down at the beach watching the girls volleyball game some guy steals your BMW. He drives it around for a week before the cops catch him. The cops bring the car to you and you don't accept it? Because "someone else" has OCCUPIED your car for the last week?

A better analogy might be giving Upstate New York back to the Mohawk and Seneca. How would you feel about that jay?

I'm ok with that. I'd rather live in Germany anyways.

[Caleb the Cruel]

I'm ok with that. I'd rather live in Germany anyways.

I too would enjoy going back to the Fatherland or Switzerland
but I'm stuck in Colorado

[Caleb the Cruel]

THIS THREAD HAS BEEN REVIVED ON OCT. 18 BY ME, THE REVIVER... why you may ask? because this is a good old thread that has died down to the pitful page 4

[vtmarik]

Thanks Caleb, I don't know what we would've done without this thread in our lives.

[Mirak]

Jay you really need to use common sense and a bit of decency when talking about such a complex and tragic situation.....just quoting the Bible doesn't cut it unless you are talking to other brain dead Bible bashers or children of 3 and under

[Roger Dodger]

i think we've done this before. i am pro-israel. no one like it. tough.

seems we need to close this topic.. it's been here since july.

[Mirak]

A lot has happened since July..including the tragedy in Gaza just a few days ago
I guess I'll start a new thread and as you are fed up with this topic you don't need to respond

[Econ2000]

ok lets start this over again........... I do not support isreal

[Caleb the Cruel]

I support a Jewish Israel, until the War of 2036, but that's another story.

[Paulicus]

I don't support Isreal, I think they have gone along using the anti semetism as a means to war for too long. As for taking care of terrorists it is the job of the US or UN.

[mr. incrediball]

oh shit... i put no comment when i meant to say no...

people are dying for no reason in the middle east... i support solar power so people will stop invading the middle east for oil...

SUPPORT SOLAR POWER! STOP THE POINTLESS MASSACRE!

[DogDoc]

I support a Jewish Israel, until the War of 2036, but that's another story.

Okay, I'll bite. What are you talking about??

[vtmarik]

Okay, I'll bite. What are you talking about??

Don't ask, it's just too painful.

[OnlyAmbrose]

As for taking care of terrorists it is the job of the US or UN.

That's a load of crap. Israel is the one of the only countries I know of with the balls to take care of itself WITHOUT the divine "ok" from the UN. Once terrorists start attacking you, it BECOMES your job to "take care of it". I think we as the US have far overextended ourselves as the world police, and I for one am grateful that Israel has the power and the guts to take care of the issue on its own.

[vtmarik]

That's a load of crap. Israel is the one of the only countries I know of with the balls to take care of itself WITHOUT the divine "ok" from the UN. Once terrorists start attacking you, it BECOMES your job to "take care of it". I think we as the US have far overextended ourselves as the world police, and I for one am grateful that Israel has the power and the guts to take care of the issue on its own.

They go a bit far though, they're just as brutal and petty as the people they're defending themselves from. They've broken just as many cease fires as their enemies.

I can't blame them though, Israel is the kind of place where you can't even go out to get pizza without worrying about being blown up by some nutbar.

[Stopper]

As for taking care of terrorists it is the job of the US or UN.

That's a load of crap. Israel is the one of the only countries I know of with the balls to take care of itself WITHOUT the divine "ok" from the UN. Once terrorists start attacking you, it BECOMES your job to "take care of it". I think we as the US have far overextended ourselves as the world police, and I for one am grateful that Israel has the power and the guts to take care of the issue on its own.

On its own? Who are you kidding? The amount of aid the USA gives to Israel runs into tens of billions of dollars a year?! I'm not entirely anti-Israel, it definitely has a right to exist within its 1967 borders, but suggesting it has EVER done anything on its own is just factually wrong - it simply could not support the military it has without US funding.