9/11 Conspiracies(threads merged)

[Grooveman2007]

Americans have three past times.

1. Baseball
2. NASCAR
3. Conspiracy theories

These claims would definatly fall under the third catigory.

[Neutrino]

It's only degenerated to name calling because Jay keeps posting the same crap. In the begining there was actual debate, but now no-one bothers, since all the arguments have already been rehashed a thousand times.

I admit, there is quite a reasonable amount of evidence to support some odd goings on. A conspiracy to the extent Jay claims, however, is very unlikely. How did they pack the buildings with explosives without anyone noticing? Why are tens of thousands of people keeping quite about something that could make them millionaires? Why didn't the government just assassinate the people who intially uncovered the conspiracy, before it became popular?
These are all questions I have never had decent answers too...

[jay_a2j]

This will be ignored as well......



IF YOU DON'T HAVE 7 MIN. 45 SEC. TO SPARE DON"T BOTHER CLICKING HERE

[Backglass]

Another idiot takes the bait.


I love how a 30 year CIA veteran is now considered an "expert" in building design and demolition. These so called "experts" are no more experts than you and I.

The "experts" have spoken time & time again but it's not nearly as much fun to believe the truth. It is MUCH more exciting to believe that the largest conspiracy in world history has been kept perfectly quiet for over FIVE YEARS under the command of the biggest fool ever to hold our highest office.

Yeah...thats what happened.

Please kids....grow up.

[Jenos Ridan]

Americans have three past times.

1. Baseball
2. NASCAR
3. Conspiracy theories

These claims would definatly fall under the third catigory.

Maybe a number of them do: not this guy.

I detest conspiracy theories, NASCAR bores me more often then not and Baseball even more. Hockey, live if I can pay to see the WinterHawks. UFC is good, but I like to watch the newer fighters rather than the old hands. And history, REAL history, is very interesting. Especially the kind involving the political maneuverings of people like Pompey or the tactics of Patton.

[DaGip]

Just look at the friggin' evidence, would ya!
FREE NORSE!

[suggs]

Don Paul caused 9/11.

[Gregrios]

I've doubted the story right from the beginning simply because of George Bush. Ever since he won the presidential race by way of recount, I've doubted everything about what goes on amungst the leaders of the country. These comments you have provided only confirm my beliefs.

Thanks for setting my mind at ease.

[unriggable]

Don Paul caused 9/11.

Bring out the wagons.

[SolidLuigi]

Another idiot takes the bait.


I love how a 30 year CIA veteran is now considered an "expert" in building design and demolition. These so called "experts" are no more experts than you and I.

The "experts" have spoken time & time again but it's not nearly as much fun to believe the truth. It is MUCH more exciting to believe that the largest conspiracy in world history has been kept perfectly quiet for over FIVE YEARS under the command of the biggest fool ever to hold our highest office.

Yeah...thats what happened.

Please kids....grow up.

1. It wasn't kept perfectly quiet, thats why there is so much doubt about it

2. Your argument that contains insults like "idiot" and "kids" and no facts to back it up is a perfect example of the "peer pressure" influence that is inflicted on people, and then the people inflict it onto each other. It's really a genius idea that works in their favor. They tell you what they say is the "truth". Since it was an attack on us, there is "no way the gov't can be lying" right? So now when you hear someone raise questions with actual facts and evidence, "WHAT ARE YOU AN IDIOT?" a baseless jab at someone with nothing to refute their claims, just a personal attack to divert the attention from the fact that you either A. don't have a response to the facts presented, or B. you really haven't done any research on the subject and you are just blindly following what you are told by mass media. really? someone's an idiot for questioning the government, which is consisted of humans, humans who are buyable, subject to error, and can lie to people, just like you and I can lie to whomever we want. Forget the government, how is someone an idiot for questioning anything? Questioning is what separates us from robots or animals, questioning shows that you are thinking for yourself and are using your brain. I'll give you a list of things to find facts to counter these:

-Molten metal pools found at the base of the steel

-No steel skyscraper before or after 9/11 has ever collapsed due to fire, and on 9/11, 3 steel skyscrapers did according to the report. The debris was quickly cleaned up and sold as scrap to china and india only to places that were going to melt it down. Why's this important? When a disaster happens, plane crash or car crash or building collapse, it is carefully reconstructed so engineers can find out what were the weak points in the design that caused it to collapse or fail and therefore know for future reference, better building methods. Now add that to the fact that these were the first 3 steel skyscrapers in history to ever collapse from fire, now it should really be investigated and reconstructed because obviously something was very wrong if these were the only ones brought down by fire.

-Thermate, a patented demolition substance, found in the dust and ruins of 9/11

-Steel supports sheared off at a precise angle, very similar to controlled demolitons

-The speed and preciseness at which the towers fell as soon as they started falling. They fell so fast that an object dropped from the roof of the towers at the same time they started to fall, would hit the ground the same time the top of the tower did. There is no resistance against the object, so therefore for the tower to match that speed, there had to be no resistance below it, basically a free fall. all that steel, all those floors. even if you believe the pancake theory, each time a floor pancaked onto another, there would be at least some delay

-For a bulding to fall uniformly straight into its footprint, all supports must be cut at the same moment at the same angle so all the weight falls at the same time.

-WTC building 7...... do I have to say more about that one?

-Bush and Cheney refusing to answer questions candidly, or under oath to the 9/11 comission.


Now what you must understand is I am not saying this definitively points to "The government did it!". It shows that at least something was covered up, something is fishy about it. You just have to use your brain, question everything, would you trust some random guy who came up to you on the street? So why trust a politician? cause he's rich? cause he has a title? The founding fathers set up small government with checks and balances for these exact reasons! They knew power and money corrupts. Now we are slowly losing our rights they set up for us, and those checks and balances are slowly being destroyed and government is getting way too big and spending way too much. All I ask is just to honestly question things, thats why we have brains.

[Frigidus]

Another idiot takes the bait.


I love how a 30 year CIA veteran is now considered an "expert" in building design and demolition. These so called "experts" are no more experts than you and I.

The "experts" have spoken time & time again but it's not nearly as much fun to believe the truth. It is MUCH more exciting to believe that the largest conspiracy in world history has been kept perfectly quiet for over FIVE YEARS under the command of the biggest fool ever to hold our highest office.

Yeah...thats what happened.

Please kids....grow up.

1. It wasn't kept perfectly quiet, thats why there is so much doubt about it

2. Your argument that contains insults like "idiot" and "kids" and no facts to back it up is a perfect example of the "peer pressure" influence that is inflicted on people, and then the people inflict it onto each other. It's really a genius idea that works in their favor. They tell you what they say is the "truth". Since it was an attack on us, there is "no way the gov't can be lying" right? So now when you hear someone raise questions with actual facts and evidence, "WHAT ARE YOU AN IDIOT?" a baseless jab at someone with nothing to refute their claims, just a personal attack to divert the attention from the fact that you either A. don't have a response to the facts presented, or B. you really haven't done any research on the subject and you are just blindly following what you are told by mass media. really? someone's an idiot for questioning the government, which is consisted of humans, humans who are buyable, subject to error, and can lie to people, just like you and I can lie to whomever we want. Forget the government, how is someone an idiot for questioning anything? Questioning is what separates us from robots or animals, questioning shows that you are thinking for yourself and are using your brain. I'll give you a list of things to find facts to counter these:

-Molten metal pools found at the base of the steel

-No steel skyscraper before or after 9/11 has ever collapsed due to fire, and on 9/11, 3 steel skyscrapers did according to the report. The debris was quickly cleaned up and sold as scrap to china and india only to places that were going to melt it down. Why's this important? When a disaster happens, plane crash or car crash or building collapse, it is carefully reconstructed so engineers can find out what were the weak points in the design that caused it to collapse or fail and therefore know for future reference, better building methods. Now add that to the fact that these were the first 3 steel skyscrapers in history to ever collapse from fire, now it should really be investigated and reconstructed because obviously something was very wrong if these were the only ones brought down by fire.

-Thermate, a patented demolition substance, found in the dust and ruins of 9/11

-Steel supports sheared off at a precise angle, very similar to controlled demolitons

-The speed and preciseness at which the towers fell as soon as they started falling. They fell so fast that an object dropped from the roof of the towers at the same time they started to fall, would hit the ground the same time the top of the tower did. There is no resistance against the object, so therefore for the tower to match that speed, there had to be no resistance below it, basically a free fall. all that steel, all those floors. even if you believe the pancake theory, each time a floor pancaked onto another, there would be at least some delay

-For a bulding to fall uniformly straight into its footprint, all supports must be cut at the same moment at the same angle so all the weight falls at the same time.

-WTC building 7...... do I have to say more about that one?

-Bush and Cheney refusing to answer questions candidly, or under oath to the 9/11 comission.


Now what you must understand is I am not saying this definitively points to "The government did it!". It shows that at least something was covered up, something is fishy about it. You just have to use your brain, question everything, would you trust some random guy who came up to you on the street? So why trust a politician? cause he's rich? cause he has a title? The founding fathers set up small government with checks and balances for these exact reasons! They knew power and money corrupts. Now we are slowly losing our rights they set up for us, and those checks and balances are slowly being destroyed and government is getting way too big and spending way too much. All I ask is just to honestly question things, thats why we have brains.

Hm...I'm tempted to write out all the typical responses to this, but I'm kind of busy right now. Anyone else willing to do more than link to the 100+ page thread where arguments for the government coverup slowly lost ground and ended with demands of photographic evidence the government didn't blow up the twin towers?

You know Luigi, when I first started reading I thought that you might be talking about believers of the cover-up. Most of the people I know who believe it was a set-up are in their teens and early 20s. Along with Ron Paul and Bush hating (while there is justification for hating Bush, half the time people just say that hes "stupid" or "evil" with no supporting evidence) 9/11 coverups are at the top of pop politics. There are very few people willing to take time out of their day to disprove the conspiracy, so the believers basically get free reign to convince people who don't bother to research the counterpoint. After all, if you can only gain popularity on the internet then you usually don't have a realistic basis.

[Backglass]

1. It wasn't kept perfectly quiet, thats why there is so much doubt about it

Then you can please give us a quote from someone...ANYONE who claims to be "in on this" and is now coming forward with evidence.

2. Your argument that contains insults like "idiot" and "kids" and no facts to back it up

Care to tell us how old you are? I am guessing well under 25. Now...do you know where the search button is? This silly claim has been run into the ground OVER and OVER again. But, if you must I will humor you.

-Molten metal pools found at the base of the steel

Sources please, not must random claims. A nice photo of a molten metal pool would do.

-No steel skyscraper before or after 9/11 has ever collapsed due to fire, and on 9/11, 3 steel skyscrapers did according to the report. The debris was quickly cleaned up and sold as scrap to china and india

Bullshit. Sources please. I have been to the 9-11 landfills. Have you? The debris had to be combed for body parts...a terribly painstaking process.

only to places that were going to melt it down. Why's this important? When a disaster happens, plane crash or car crash or building collapse, it is carefully reconstructed so engineers can find out what were the weak points in the design that caused it to collapse or fail and therefore know for future reference, better building methods. Now add that to the fact that these were the first 3 steel skyscrapers in history to ever collapse from fire, now it should really be investigated and reconstructed because obviously something was very wrong if these were the only ones brought down by fire.

Are you honestly claiming that the building collapses have not been throughly investigated? Are you insane? This is now Structural 101 at colleges around the world. You will learn this once you attend.

Thermate, a patented demolition substance, found in the dust and ruins of 9/11

Bullshit. Reliable source please. Besides, wasnt it all sold quickly to CHina?

Steel supports sheared off at a precise angle, very similar to controlled demolitons

Bullshit. Reliable source please.

The speed and preciseness at which the towers fell as soon as they started falling. They fell so fast that an object dropped from the roof of the towers at the same time they started to fall, would hit the ground the same time the top of the tower did. There is no resistance against the object, so therefore for the tower to match that speed, there had to be no resistance below it, basically a free fall. all that steel, all those floors. even if you believe the pancake theory, each time a floor pancaked onto another, there would be at least some delay

This has been debunked over and over again. The towers did not free-fall.

For a bulding to fall uniformly straight into its footprint, all supports must be cut at the same moment at the same angle so all the weight falls at the same time.

Bullshit. Physics 101. The mass of those buildings were HUGE compared to the mass of the planes. Where else would they fall but straight down? If you think they would fall over like a childrens toy you need to do some more research.

-WTC building 7...... do I have to say more about that one?

Please do.

-Bush and Cheney refusing to answer questions candidly, or under oath to the 9/11 comission.

Exactly what questions did they refuse to answer? Are they suspects? What is your evidence?

Now what you must understand is I am not saying this definitively points to "The government did it!". It shows that at least something was covered up, something is fishy about it.

No...it shows nothing but reaching to a forgone conclusion by the uneducated. You have taken bad science, rumor and ignorance and formed a guess. Experts who have NOTHING to do with our government from around the world have weighed in on this with the same conclusions. Are they in on the conspiracy as well? The college professors and structural experts, MANY of whom are democrats and LOATH bush say the same things. Are THEY also on the take?

Do you have ANY idea how a controlled demolition works? First the building is stripped down to the bare foundation and then weakened to the point of near collapse. HUNDREDS of hours of cutting and drilling through major support structures. Then THOUSANDS of charges are placed all throughout a building and WIRED to a central location. How many reports do we have of hundreds of shadowy agents roaming the halls drilling and wiring? None. Do you honestly believe this could be performed in a night by a few men?

Now...you use YOUR brain and try to answer the above questions.

[Snorri1234]

The speed and preciseness at which the towers fell as soon as they started falling. They fell so fast that an object dropped from the roof of the towers at the same time they started to fall, would hit the ground the same time the top of the tower did. There is no resistance against the object, so therefore for the tower to match that speed, there had to be no resistance below it, basically a free fall. all that steel, all those floors. even if you believe the pancake theory, each time a floor pancaked onto another, there would be at least some delay

This has been debunked over and over again. The towers did not free-fall.

The weirdest thing about this one is that the towers couldn't free-fall anyway. Even if the government was somehow behind it, did they magically counter the laws of psychics? The only way the top of the tower free-falled is if the rest of the tower disappeared magically. If someone placed bombs over the whole place, it still wouldn't free-fall, as the force of all those explosions plus the time all those explosions took would've held the top in the air longer anyway.

In short: Are you saying the bush-government can ignore the laws of psychics?

[unriggable]

In short: Are you saying the bush-government can ignore the laws of psychics?

At least when it comes to admitting whether the big bang is right or not.

[Neutrino]

laws of psychics?

I'll give you 30 seconds to work out what's wrong with this phrase...

[Snorri1234]

laws of psychics?

I'll give you 30 seconds to work out what's wrong with this phrase...

I lose?

[Neutrino]

Well, it did take you 9 minutes to work out what the problem was...

[dcowboys055]

TL/DR
summary for the lazy people, please?

The gov set-up 9/11

Americans, just get over it already! Does it really matter if the government set up 9/11? NO, because it is the past. Just STFU about it already, NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU CONSPIRACY IDIOTS HAVE TO FUCKING SAY.

Yes conspiracy idiots need to be quiet, but don't begin your post 'Americans get over it' as the majority of Americans are not conspiracy idiots.

[Snorri1234]

Well, it did take you 9 minutes to work out what the problem was...

Well I was watching Firefly.

[unriggable]

TL/DR
summary for the lazy people, please?

The gov set-up 9/11

Americans, just get over it already! Does it really matter if the government set up 9/11? NO, because it is the past. Just STFU about it already, NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU CONSPIRACY IDIOTS HAVE TO FUCKING SAY.

Yes conspiracy idiots need to be quiet, but don't begin your post 'Americans get over it' as the majority of Americans are not conspiracy idiots.

It matters because those that did it need to be brought to justice. The only problem is that the theorists never shut the f*ck up.

[Neutrino]

Well, it did take you 9 minutes to work out what the problem was...

Well I was watching Firefly.

Well it's still your fault

[Snorri1234]

Well, it did take you 9 minutes to work out what the problem was...

Well I was watching Firefly.

Well it's still your fault

But... it was Firefly!

[dcowboys055]

TL/DR
summary for the lazy people, please?

The gov set-up 9/11

Americans, just get over it already! Does it really matter if the government set up 9/11? NO, because it is the past. Just STFU about it already, NO ONE CARES WHAT YOU CONSPIRACY IDIOTS HAVE TO FUCKING SAY.

Yes conspiracy idiots need to be quiet, but don't begin your post 'Americans get over it' as the majority of Americans are not conspiracy idiots.

It matters because those that did it need to be brought to justice. The only problem is that the theorists never shut the f*ck up.

I didn't say anything about whether it matters or not, just to not start the post "Americans, get over it, blah blah blah." Rather, start it "Conspiracy theorists, get over it, blah blah blah."

[Carebian Knight]

Which is the greater loss? The passengers aboard plane 1 ? Or 1,500 in tower 1? Do the math. After the 1st plane hit tower 1 the US should of AT LEAST tried to get some fighters up in the air to try and guide, tail, chaperon or destroy the other 3 hi-jacked planes but they sat on the ground instead.

A.) I doubt they had much of an idea where the planes were exactly.
B.) Chaperoning the planes wouldn't have worked, these terrorists were suiciders. So the only option would have been shooting them down, which meant shooting down a huge plane above a big city where it would most certainly cause lots of casualties.

They had them on radar, they knew exactly where they were even BEFORE they got to the city. You may be right, the only option may have been to shoot them down, but they weren't "over the city" the entire time. Why spend time making up excuses for our government instead of addressing the sheer stupidity of their actions (or inactions)?

Yeah, I'm sure the hijacked planes show up as purple on radar so they are nice and identifiable. Seriously, there had to be at least 50 planes in the New York area during the attacks, you can't follow all of them.

Soundout, I actually somewhat liked you until you posted this.

[Carebian Knight]

Alright, enough, we get it already. Blah, blah, blah ... controlled demolition ... temperature of burning jet fuel ... explosions ... free-fall faster than terminal velocity. Let me know if I missed anything.

You know what, just for fun, lets say you're right. Lets assume that the buildings did undergo a controlled demolition, the sounds in fact were bombs, ect. Even if this was the case, why does the government have to be responsible for it? Perhaps terrorists planted bombs to do the actual damage, but used the planes to cause doubt and suspicion to spread through people such as yourself and cause the people to doubt the government. This would then lead them to speak out against the government and cause unrest, ultimately leading to a weaker government that takes less action in foreign policy and regulation of the nation.

Isn't the crazed international conspiracy just as likely to come from the opposite side of the argument?

lol...yeah imagine hundreds of arabs going inside the towers to set it up.....unnoticed! Now THAT is nutty!


And it still wouldn't explain why our air force stood down!

Since when are all terrorists Arab?