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Now science has said, Life cannot come from non-life. Which is common sense... a rock will never reproduce since it is not living.
Then you trace back all life to its orgin...the very first living thing.
Where did it come from?
The ONLY answer is someting or someone has always existed. And that someone or something must have the power to create (or reproduce).
There must be a God.
The reason there is no "One living thing" is because that's just impossible. Thinking that there's a progenitor comes from your not thinking like a scientist. Life doesn't come from non-life, but it can develop from semi-life.
From my research paper on Creationism v. Evolution
[Daniel C.] Dennett states that there can't have been a single living thing that all others evolved from. He posits that the first single celled organisms developed from “Much simpler, quasi-living things like viruses, but unlike them in not (yet) having any living things to live off parasitically.” (Dennett, 1995, p.156) Chemically, viruses are simply strands of ultra-simple ribonucleic acid (RNA) encased in large protein crystals that self-replicate and exist without any metabolisms to speak of. Since they are simple “lifeforms” having no need to process sugars into energy they basically exist and replicate. A virus doesn't generate its own power. It either comes across the necessary energy to perform repairs or it “succumbs to the Second Law of Thermodynamics and falls apart.” (p.156, para.2) Since crystal formation is a simple enough process to be measured and even watched by people, the attention shifts to the RNA inside the virus. RNA forms when the nucleotides Adenine, Cytosine, Guanine and Uracil bond together by protein fusion into short strands of RNA. Biologists have observed that amino acids can fuse together into bundles that can have some ability to catalyze, or create a reaction, between substances. With a catalytic process and some RNA, we have what can be analogous to “A printing press and a book bindery, but the books would be too short to be good for anything but making more of themselves with a lot of misprints.” (p. 159) The subsequent replications are different from the parent RNA. How does RNA transform into Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA), the building blocks of all life as we know it? Single strands of RNA began to drift through the 'primordial ooze' of pre-life and the different nucleotides began to stick to one another and form double-stranded strings of DNA. Opposing building blocks locked into each other by chance, and thus we have life. ID proponents immediately throw this out because things don't 'just happen' for them. Things are all part of a greater whole such as 'God's Great Plan.' In science, however, we see chance happenings on a constant basis. Sometimes a particle strikes an atom and breaks it apart; sometimes it harmlessly bounces off and drifts. Since ID relies on a creator of some kind it cannot utilize nonlinear chronologies. Science, on the other hand, solely on the observable events of a process. Simply put, ID collapses under its own weight when events being questioned are ignored because they don't 'get with the program.'
Initiate discovery! Fire the Machines! Throw the switch Igor! THROW THE F***ING SWITCH!
jay_a2j wrote:The ONLY answer is someting or someone has always existed. And that someone or something must have the power to create (or reproduce). There must be a God.
The Egyptians said the same thing about the Sun because they couldnt fathom or explain it. "The ONLY answer is that RA The Sun God created everything. There is NO other answer!" You are making the same stretch just like those ancient, mis-guided people.
Do you honestly believe that Moses parted an ocean? Do you honestly believe that Noah had every animal on his Ark and life on the planet started over with his family & pets? Do you honestly believe that there is someone constantly watching us, controlling our lives (directly or indirectly) and throwing the occasional disaster our way just to see how we react like some 7-year old with his first ant-farm?
I don't and have felt that way as long as I can remember. It's a superstition Jay and to me no different than believing a psychic can really talk to your dead grandmother.
There are no atheists on the other side.
There is no other side Jay. Live your life for today...cause this is it buddy.
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vtmarik wrote: [Daniel C.] Dennett states that there can't have been a single living thing that all others evolved from. He posits that the first single celled organisms developed from “Much simpler, quasi-living things like viruses, but unlike them in not (yet) having any living things to live off parasitically.” (Dennett, 1995, p.156) Chemically, viruses are simply strands of ultra-simple ribonucleic acid (RNA) encased in large protein crystals that self-replicate and exist without any metabolisms to speak of. Since they are simple “lifeforms” having no need to process sugars into energy they basically exist and replicate. A virus doesn't generate its own power. It either comes across the necessary energy to perform repairs or it “succumbs to the Second Law of Thermodynamics and falls apart.” (p.156, para.2) Since crystal formation is a simple enough process to be measured and even watched by people, the attention shifts to the RNA inside the virus. RNA forms when the nucleotides Adenine, Cytosine, Guanine and Uracil bond together by protein fusion into short strands of RNA. Biologists have observed that amino acids can fuse together into bundles that can have some ability to catalyze, or create a reaction, between substances. With a catalytic process and some RNA, we have what can be analogous to “A printing press and a book bindery, but the books would be too short to be good for anything but making more of themselves with a lot of misprints.” (p. 159) The subsequent replications are different from the parent RNA. How does RNA transform into Deoxyribonucleic Acid (DNA), the building blocks of all life as we know it? Single strands of RNA began to drift through the 'primordial ooze' of pre-life and the different nucleotides began to stick to one another and form double-stranded strings of DNA. Opposing building blocks locked into each other by chance, and thus we have life. ID proponents immediately throw this out because things don't 'just happen' for them. Things are all part of a greater whole such as 'God's Great Plan.' In science, however, we see chance happenings on a constant basis. Sometimes a particle strikes an atom and breaks it apart; sometimes it harmlessly bounces off and drifts. Since ID relies on a creator of some kind it cannot utilize nonlinear chronologies. Science, on the other hand, solely on the observable events of a process. Simply put, ID collapses under its own weight when events being questioned are ignored because they don't 'get with the program.'
::round of applause::
biblicalists: I would suggest that instead of sticking your fingers in your proverbial ears and singing 'LALALALALA' you give this a read.
Backglass wrote: Do you honestly believe that Moses parted an ocean?
Moses didn't do it, God did. This is what happens when you take God out of the box. God could have dried the Red Sea up in 10 seconds if He had wanted to.
Do you honestly believe that Noah had every animal on his Ark and life on the planet started over with his family & pets? Do you honestly believe that there is someone constantly watching us, controlling our lives (directly or indirectly) and throwing the occasional disaster our way just to see how we react like some 7-year old with his first ant-farm?
Seems you have a misguided view of God. Yes I believe the story of Noah. I also believe that God isn't controlling our lives. I believe that humans were created to serve God.The beauty of it is that He is allowing us to choose to follow Him or not, instead of forcing us to serve Him. God wants to be loved because we choose to love Him not because He says so.
I don't and have felt that way as long as I can remember. It's a superstition Jay and to me no different than believing a psychic can really talk to your dead grandmother.
There is no other side Jay. Live your life for today...cause this is it buddy.
Its not superstition. I am so glad I don't think like that. That this is it, this life is all we have. What a pointless existence! I am 100% sure God exists. I have seen Him work wonders in my own life. You can continue to reject Him, many will. I chose to accept Him.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
Why? Why does he care? Does an omnipotent being still have narcissism issues? id he insecure? lonely? an attention seeker?
How would you feel if you had a child that didn't love you?
I'd condemn him to an eternity of hellfire and damnation; but that's just me.
"I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use."
- Galileo Galilei
I just can't handle you actually believing that anywhere in this thread exists a logical, scientific proof for the existence of god. I realise you believe some crazy, arbitrary shit, but this is too much. Please consider that this is a question that has occupied philosophers - both believers and atheists - for hundreds of years and nobody has reached a consensus. So the idea that you can pull it off in a few forum posts is a bit much.
jay_a2j wrote:That this is it, this life is all we have. What a pointless existence!
Bingo! THAT my bible thumping friend is why you cling to your superstitions. Because you cant imagine that THIS is all there is. I have heard my christian cousins say "I wouldnt want to live if I found out there was no god" and they probably wouldnt, because they couldnt handle it.
I can.
AtomicSlug wrote:We all hope there is a God, and pray there isn't a Hell.
Um...Not everyone, but I know what you mean. Sure...I would like to think that there is something more...nobody wants to just "poof", be gone.
But the stark reality is, this is it. Hoping & praying to a diety makes the weak minded feel better about it, thats all. It's much easier to push it out of your mind and say "I'll let god handle it" then to face facts.
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I don't ever post anything on these boards, however I felt compelled post a logical argument against the existence of god...seeing as how I haven't seen any logic being used to prove god's existence. If you're going to title the thread "Logic dictates that there is a God!" then you should probably use logic to prove his existence...granted Jay did try to do that, but there were many fallacies contained within his logic.
Backglass wrote: But the stark reality is, this is it. Hoping & praying to a diety makes the weak minded feel better about it, thats all. It's much easier to push it out of your mind and say "I'll let god handle it" then to face facts.
This won't be the last time you see/hear these words. And if I'm there when God "reads them back to you" I won't be happy about it.
"stark realaity"? As if you know. And you don't . You're completely wrong. And that's the "stark reality".
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
Backglass wrote: But the stark reality is, this is it. Hoping & praying to a diety makes the weak minded feel better about it, thats all. It's much easier to push it out of your mind and say "I'll let god handle it" then to face facts.
This won't be the last time you see/hear these words. And if I'm there when God "reads them back to you" I won't be happy about it.
"stark realaity"? As if you know. And you don't . You're completely wrong. And that's the "stark reality".
He might not know....but neither do I , and neither do you. I'd hate to be trapped in an eternal afterlife with the likes of you.
misscrystal wrote:I'd hate to be trapped in an eternal afterlife with the likes of you.
I'd hate to be trapped anywhere with weak minded cultists. Glad I wont be.
jay_a2j wrote:This won't be the last time you see/hear these words. And if I'm there when God "reads them back to you" I won't be happy about it.
Ahhh..so it's come down to just the tired "You'll see when you die" line, complete with "holier than thou" smiley. Heard it before and it doesnt wash buddy...ya see, I'm not superstitious and thus, not scared. Very "christian" of you to be so vengeful. I accept your defeat.
Well, it's been fun. Enjoy your superstitions. Dont break any mirrors, send your letters to Santa Claus and throw some salt over your shoulder. And the big one...dont forget to tithe your 10% Jay! Maybe you should give 50-75% just to make sure. Your pastor could use a new car. <--My smug smiley
Last edited by Backglass on Thu Sep 14, 2006 7:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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misscrystal wrote:I'd hate to be trapped in an eternal afterlife with the likes of you.
I'd hate to be trapped anywhere with weak minded cultists. Glad I wont be.
jay_a2j wrote:This won't be the last time you see/hear these words. And if I'm there when God "reads them back to you" I won't be happy about it.
Ahhh..so it's come down to just the tired "You'll see when you die" line, complete with "holier than thou" smiley. Heard it before and it doesnt wash buddy...ya see, I'm not superstitious and thus, not scared. Very "christian" of you to be so vengeful. I accept your defeat.
Well, it's been fun. Enjoy your superstitions. Dont break any mirrors, send your letters to Santa Claus and throw some salt over your shoulder. And the big one...dont forget to tithe your 10% Jay! Maybe you should give 50-75% just to make sure. Your pastor could use a new car. <--My smug smiley
You will see when you die.
That was not a "holier than thou" smiley.
Are you scared? Cause you should be. (You're on Scare Tactics!) Vengeful? Can you READ? I said, " I won't be happy about it. " It's just a harsh reality.
Can't accept defeat when none is offered. You have established that you are against God. "He who is not for me is against me." You have got to be one of the most close-minded people I have ever met.
(shakes the dust off his sandles, turns and walks away)
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
jay_a2j wrote:That was not a "holier than thou" smiley.
My sincere apologies.
jay_a2j wrote:Are you scared?
No, as stated above.
jay_a2j wrote:You have established that you are against God. "He who..blah...blah...blah
You cant be for or against something that doesnt exist. It's like saying "you are against the Easter Bunny". I find it downright silly.
jay_a2j wrote: You have got to be one of the most close-minded people I have ever met.
LOL...now THATS funny coming from you. Quite the contrary mi amigo. It's precicely because of my open mind that I can see reality.
Want to know how I feel?
Can you imagine living in a world where 80% of the grownup people actually believe in Santa Claus?
Can you imagine living in a world where 80% of the grownup people think the answer to every problem is to write a letter to Santa Claus?
Can you imagine living in a world where 80% of the grownup people run around telling each other and everyone else that they should write letters to Santa Claus everyday?
Can you imagine living in a world where 80% of the grownup people run around saying everyone should live their lives to please Santa Claus?
Can you imagine living in a world where grownup people who believe in Santa Claus want to kill other people for believing in the Tooth Fairy?
Thats how I feel every day.
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FedEX, UPS, they have overnight delivery, but wa-ait a minute! I know another man with his own Guaranteed Overnight Delivery. Forget Federal Express, I'll take the Reindeer Express! Give me a Ho Ho Ho!
Initiate discovery! Fire the Machines! Throw the switch Igor! THROW THE F***ING SWITCH!
FedEX, UPS, they have overnight delivery, but wa-ait a minute! I know another man with his own Guaranteed Overnight Delivery. Forget Federal Express, I'll take the Reindeer Express! Give me a Ho Ho Ho!
How long are you guys gonna go on with this childish Santa Clause thing? (that little movie was lame btw) Instead of "Santa Claus" incert "God". I really doubt He's enjoying this mocking of Himself.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
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