Conquer Club

Alot of people seem to believe they are not Christian, i on the other hand think they do because they fit the criteria, or my standards of being Christian, they're just a bit different from your average Christian.

Don't get me started on Jehovah Witnesses, got enough of them to deal with already....

Some are. Just like some Protestants are Christians.

brooksieb wrote:Alot of people seem to believe they are not Christian, i on the other hand think they do because they fit the criteria, or my standards of being Christian, they're just a bit different from your average Christian.

Aside from the old "garage analogy" (belonging to a church doesn't make you a Christian any more than being in a garage necessarily makes you a car), the ONLY people who say Roman Catholics are not are some of the "born again" and "Anabaptist" churches.

Roman Catholics even somewhat accept Protestants. That is, you cannot take Communion, but marriages to non-Catholics are recognized, as are non-Roman Catholic Baptisms of children if the child is later brought up to be Roman Catholic (they don't usually have to be re-baptized to be confirmed).

Catholics started the Christian church. If anything, Jehovas, Protestants, Mormons, etc. aren't Christian

I am a Roman Catholic, so what do you think my answer would be?

kagetora wrote:Catholics started the Christian church. If anything, Jehovas, Protestants, Mormons, etc. aren't Christian

The Roman Catholic Church was not the original Church as much as it was a part of the original Church. The first Christians were Orthodox Christians, and after the Great Schism there was a Western (Roman Catholic) Church and Eastern (Orthodox Christian) Church. Before that there was just the Christian Church. It's common for us, in the west, to think of the Roman Catholic Church as the original church because Rome was the seat of Christianity from which our Protestant churches came. There were other seats of Christianity (Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, etc.) with their own Orthodox Churches.

CrazyAnglican wrote:

kagetora wrote:Catholics started the Christian church. If anything, Jehovas, Protestants, Mormons, etc. aren't Christian

The Roman Catholic Church was not the original Church as much as it was a part of the original Church. The first Christians were Orthodox Christians, and after the Great Schism there was a Western (Roman Catholic) Church and Eastern (Orthodox Christian) Church. Before that there was just the Christian Church. It's common for us, in the west, to think of the Roman Catholic Church as the original church because Rome was the seat of Christianity from which our Protestant churches came. There were other seats of Christianity (Antioch, Alexandria, Jerusalem, etc.) with their own Orthodox Churches.

I would not say the "first" Christians were Orthodox Christians, but that is getting technical...

PLAYER57832 wrote:

brooksieb wrote:Alot of people seem to believe they are not Christian, i on the other hand think they do because they fit the criteria, or my standards of being Christian, they're just a bit different from your average Christian.

Aside from the old "garage analogy" (belonging to a church doesn't make you a Christian any more than being in a garage necessarily makes you a car), the ONLY people who say Roman Catholics are not are some of the "born again" and "Anabaptist" churches.

Roman Catholics even somewhat accept Protestants. That is, you cannot take Communion, but marriages to non-Catholics are recognized, as are non-Roman Catholic Baptisms of children if the child is later brought up to be Roman Catholic (they don't usually have to be re-baptized to be confirmed).

Don't mistake that for "acceptance", that's just a logical consequence of the Sacramental nature of marriage.

Christians are people who believe in Christ's death and resurrection. Catholics do that. Therefore, catholics are Christians.

That was easy. Next week: Chicks and maps.

Napoleon Ier wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:

brooksieb wrote:Alot of people seem to believe they are not Christian, i on the other hand think they do because they fit the criteria, or my standards of being Christian, they're just a bit different from your average Christian.

Aside from the old "garage analogy" (belonging to a church doesn't make you a Christian any more than being in a garage necessarily makes you a car), the ONLY people who say Roman Catholics are not are some of the "born again" and "Anabaptist" churches.

Roman Catholics even somewhat accept Protestants. That is, you cannot take Communion, but marriages to non-Catholics are recognized, as are non-Roman Catholic Baptisms of children if the child is later brought up to be Roman Catholic (they don't usually have to be re-baptized to be confirmed).

Don't mistake that for "acceptance", that's just a logical consequence of the Sacramental nature of marriage.

I did say "somewhat accepted" ... and it was not so long ago that a spouse had to convert or the other partner would face ex-communication in many parishes. Things have changed a great deal.

Not a question of acceptance.

It's just that your "Sacraments" are invalid if they require an actual Priest.

Marriage technically doesn't: just two (and no more) consenting adults (of the opposite sex) who wish to get married, and take the vows, and nothing else. Even if they don't believe in the Roman Church's validity as Christ's Church, the Sacrament can't help but work

Communion is a different matter. It requires a Priest for Transubstantiation to occur. Protestants clearly only have imposter priests or don't claim to have them at all.

kagetora wrote:Catholics started the Christian church.

Jesus Christ started the Christian church

luns101 wrote:

kagetora wrote:Catholics started the Christian church.

Jesus Christ started the Christian church

So you're both right.

What is a "jew for Jesus"? I heard about a jew for jesus leader a while back when he was on the news for denying the holocost or something. Apperently they have a church and stuff. does anyone knoe what they are?

captainwalrus wrote:What is a "jew for Jesus"? I heard about a jew for jesus leader a while back when he was on the news for denying the holocost or something. Apperently they have a church and stuff. does anyone knoe what they are?

Jews typically reject that Jesus was/is the Messiah. A Jew for Jesus is a Jew that accepts Jesus as Messiah.

jay_a2j wrote:

captainwalrus wrote:What is a "jew for Jesus"? I heard about a jew for jesus leader a while back when he was on the news for denying the holocost or something. Apperently they have a church and stuff. does anyone knoe what they are?

Jews typically reject that Jesus was/is the Messiah. A Jew for Jesus is a Jew that accepts Jesus as Messiah.

I am sure jay answered correctly, except that I think "Jews for Jesus" is a specific somewhat radical group.

The other term is "Messianic Jews". They are mostly people born into Judiasm who convert to Christianity and their families. They follow most of the traditions of Judiasm, but believe in Jesus and pretty well stay out of the limelight.

PLAYER57832 wrote:
Roman Catholics even somewhat accept Protestants. That is, you cannot take Communion, but marriages to non-Catholics are recognized, as are non-Roman Catholic Baptisms of children if the child is later brought up to be Roman Catholic (they don't usually have to be re-baptized to be confirmed).

I was baptized Presbyterian and converted to Roman Catholicism in college. Baptism in the Catholic tradition (as it is now defined) says that any baptism "In the name of the Father and the Son, and the Holy Spirit" where water is used is valid. Catholic Tradition has always held that a baptism can be performed by anyone. In the middle ages, when infant mortality was through the roof, midwives often baptized children right after they were born as it was considered absolutely necessary for salvation at the time.

Until recently, they were a lot more persnickety about the exact form of the baptism. For instance, a friend of mine who is in her 50's and who went through a similar experience, was rebaptized at her conversion because at her original one water was merely sprinkled. This is known as a "Conditional Baptism". That is, when there is question as to the propriety of the original baptism, or question as to whether it happened at all, it will be redone 'conditionally' or, 'just to be safe'.

We certainly do accept Protestants as Christians and are happy when they return the favor. (I wouldn't have joined a church that judged my Protestant family to be damned. Heck, my Lutheran father is a better Christian than I'll ever be.) I know that the majority of Christians accept us as fellow believers, but I do think, based on 4 years at a Christian college where people from all parts of the Corpus Christi were represented, that the opposite opinion is held by far more than just the far Fundamentalist fringe. We're working on it.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:

captainwalrus wrote:What is a "jew for Jesus"? I heard about a jew for jesus leader a while back when he was on the news for denying the holocost or something. Apperently they have a church and stuff. does anyone knoe what they are?

Jews typically reject that Jesus was/is the Messiah. A Jew for Jesus is a Jew that accepts Jesus as Messiah.

I am sure jay answered correctly, except that I think "Jews for Jesus" is a specific somewhat radical group.

The other term is "Messianic Jews". They are mostly people born into Judiasm who convert to Christianity and their families. They follow most of the traditions of Judiasm, but believe in Jesus and pretty well stay out of the limelight.

Is there an actual, organized church of Messianic Judaism? The few that I have met have all been part of one mainstream church or another and maintained their private traditions separately from their public worship.

Zeppflyer wrote:Is there an actual, organized church of Messianic Judaism? The few that I have met have all been part of one mainstream church or another and maintained their private traditions separately from their public worship.

http://www.iamcs.org/

Just got that off of wikipedia...don't know if it actually qualifies under the definition you put forth.

Getting back to an earlier post.... Someone said that Catholics were not the first Christians... Ill give you that. However they are the oldest church we know of right now that still exist and they are the church that all of the protestant churches broke off of. So following logical order it would make sense that if protestant churches have all broken off from the Catholic church and that protestants are Christians then Catholics must be Christians as well.

To make a long story short yes Catholics are Christians.

NO! I mean, sure, they believe that Christ is God, but that's not enough! They have to agree with the specifics too! Other group that isn't Christian: Eastern Orthodox.

Frigidus wrote:NO! I mean, sure, they believe that Christ is God, but that's not enough! They have to agree with the specifics too! Other group that isn't Christian: Eastern Orthodox.

where did you glean this great piece of information from?

Japs wrote:

Frigidus wrote:NO! I mean, sure, they believe that Christ is God, but that's not enough! They have to agree with the specifics too! Other group that isn't Christian: Eastern Orthodox.

where did you glean this great piece of information from?

The Bible.

kagetora wrote:Catholics started the Christian church. If anything, Jehovas, Protestants, Mormons, etc. aren't Christian

That's just dumb. Jesus started the church.