Conquer Club

Pope Francis had a stark warning for those who listened to his latest homily at St. Martha’s House, about the dangers of today’s rising secularism: Don’t fall into the pit of progressivism, which puts the emphasis on the collective instead of on the spirit of the individual.

Specifically, the pope spoke against “adolescent progressivism,” Vatican Radio reported. He said that those who were tempted to fall in line with such popular, worldly beliefs should resist and overcome. Hold on to faith, he said, and don’t take the bite of the “progressive” apple – a label he defined as a cultural and political move toward a single-minded purpose that may not bring benefits for all.

“The spirit of worldliness also exists today, today also brings us this desire to be progressive, following a single thought,” the pontiff said.

He advised believers to sidestep the “spirit of the word that negotiates everything.” In other words, some things are absolutes, he suggested. The pope also counseled followers of the faith to stand fast on principle, and avoid compromising on values, just to be accepted by the world.

“And this is a contradiction — we do not negotiate values, but faithfulness. And this is the fruit of the devil, the prince of this world, who leads us forward with the spirit of worldliness.”

Frigidus wrote:He's also against condoms.

The pope also counseled followers of the faith to stand fast on principle, and avoid compromising on values, just to be accepted by the world.

Phatscotty wrote:

“And this is the fruit of the devil, the prince of this world, who leads us forward with the spirit of worldliness.”

Pope Francis criticized what he called "savage capitalism" on a visit to a food kitchen on Tuesday, in an address in which he called for the values of generosity and charity to be revived.

"A savage capitalism has taught the logic of profit at any cost, of giving in order to get, of exploitation without thinking of people... and we see the results in the crisis we are experiencing," the pope said.

Francis greeted the men and women coming to the 'Gift of Maria' food kitchen, located at the walls of the Vatican.

The first non-European pontiff in centuries, the Argentine-born pope last week called for financial reform, condemning a "dictatorship of the economy" and a "cult of money".

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/ ... 2K20130521

crispybits wrote:Fairly standard cult tactics tbh - isolate an individual from their current social circles before offering them a "new home" with the brotherhood of the church of celebrating human sacrifice, oh sorry I mean the Catholic Church...

crispybits wrote:Fairly standard cult tactics tbh - isolate an individual from their current social circles before offering them a "new home" with the brotherhood of the church of celebrating human sacrifice, oh sorry I mean the Catholic Church...

thegreekdog wrote:

crispybits wrote:Fairly standard cult tactics tbh - isolate an individual from their current social circles before offering them a "new home" with the brotherhood of the church of celebrating human sacrifice, oh sorry I mean the Catholic Church...

To be fair to the pope, he was pretty specifically talking to and about Catholics, not to or about non-Catholics. Well, actually, does it count as cult tactics if the audience is already part of the cult?

Based on what I've read, seen, and heard thus far, the pope seems to be more concerned about personal salvation and morality than about forcing morality on others (i.e. non-Catholics). I support that notion, not just because I'm a live and let live kind of guy, but because Catholics are far from perfect when it comes to their own religion so there's a lot to focus on there.

For example, why would I denigrate a non-Catholic for whatever when I've got my own moral and ethical and religious issues?

BigBallinStalin wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

crispybits wrote:Fairly standard cult tactics tbh - isolate an individual from their current social circles before offering them a "new home" with the brotherhood of the church of celebrating human sacrifice, oh sorry I mean the Catholic Church...

To be fair to the pope, he was pretty specifically talking to and about Catholics, not to or about non-Catholics. Well, actually, does it count as cult tactics if the audience is already part of the cult?

Based on what I've read, seen, and heard thus far, the pope seems to be more concerned about personal salvation and morality than about forcing morality on others (i.e. non-Catholics). I support that notion, not just because I'm a live and let live kind of guy, but because Catholics are far from perfect when it comes to their own religion so there's a lot to focus on there.

For example, why would I denigrate a non-Catholic for whatever when I've got my own moral and ethical and religious issues?

Do you think the pope's comments have no effect on non-Catholics?

If his followers seriously believe in his message, would that result in no effect on non-Catholics?

Given his anti-capitalism/money/profit/secularism diatribe, I find it hard to believe in the underlined.

Army of GOD wrote:What, is this the 1100s or some shit? Why does anyone care about what the Pope says?

nietzsche wrote:

Army of GOD wrote:What, is this the 1100s or some shit? Why does anyone care about what the Pope says?

thegreekdog wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

crispybits wrote:Fairly standard cult tactics tbh - isolate an individual from their current social circles before offering them a "new home" with the brotherhood of the church of celebrating human sacrifice, oh sorry I mean the Catholic Church...

To be fair to the pope, he was pretty specifically talking to and about Catholics, not to or about non-Catholics. Well, actually, does it count as cult tactics if the audience is already part of the cult?

Based on what I've read, seen, and heard thus far, the pope seems to be more concerned about personal salvation and morality than about forcing morality on others (i.e. non-Catholics). I support that notion, not just because I'm a live and let live kind of guy, but because Catholics are far from perfect when it comes to their own religion so there's a lot to focus on there.

For example, why would I denigrate a non-Catholic for whatever when I've got my own moral and ethical and religious issues?

Do you think the pope's comments have no effect on non-Catholics?

If his followers seriously believe in his message, would that result in no effect on non-Catholics?

Given his anti-capitalism/money/profit/secularism diatribe, I find it hard to believe in the underlined.

I don't know if they have an effect on non-Catholics. It doesn't seem to appear to affect you or crispy.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

thegreekdog wrote:

crispybits wrote:Fairly standard cult tactics tbh - isolate an individual from their current social circles before offering them a "new home" with the brotherhood of the church of celebrating human sacrifice, oh sorry I mean the Catholic Church...

To be fair to the pope, he was pretty specifically talking to and about Catholics, not to or about non-Catholics. Well, actually, does it count as cult tactics if the audience is already part of the cult?

Based on what I've read, seen, and heard thus far, the pope seems to be more concerned about personal salvation and morality than about forcing morality on others (i.e. non-Catholics). I support that notion, not just because I'm a live and let live kind of guy, but because Catholics are far from perfect when it comes to their own religion so there's a lot to focus on there.

For example, why would I denigrate a non-Catholic for whatever when I've got my own moral and ethical and religious issues?

Do you think the pope's comments have no effect on non-Catholics?

If his followers seriously believe in his message, would that result in no effect on non-Catholics?

Given his anti-capitalism/money/profit/secularism diatribe, I find it hard to believe in the underlined.

I don't know if they have an effect on non-Catholics. It doesn't seem to appear to affect you or crispy.

Having people believe in incorrect portrayals of markets has implications for public policies, which do affect us. I don't see how promoting ignorance doesn't affect others.

Phatscotty wrote:

Frigidus wrote:He's also against condoms.

Well, yah.....that's how you get more Catholics.

BigBallinStalin wrote:Is it naive of me, or are you overlooking something?

Certainly, promoting ignorance leads to negative outcomes if the audience 'contaminates' the political process. Why do you ignore this, which contradicts your initial position? Then you dodge by restricting the scope of this debate to "American Catholics." Why?

What is the Catholic American economic perspective? I can't really tell if it's changing, but that's not that relevant. If they buy into the pope's propaganda, which politically results in poor outcomes, then obviously the pope's speeches have either led or reinforced his followers' beliefs into forcing their morality onto others. Religious beliefs become actualized within the political process. This has happened in the past as well, so I find it odd that you reject that this does not affect non-Catholics. Maybe you'd like to update your stance?

mrswdk wrote:I don't see why abortion shouldn't become a political issue due to a significant amount of religious citizens being opposed to abortion on principle, if it's okay for gun control to become a political issue due to a significant amount of citizens being opposed to gun control on whatever principle they have.

mrswdk wrote:So what if I'm an atheist who morally objects to abortion? Is it okay for me to call for government involvement?