1982 [Quenched]

[koontz1973]

Map Name:1982 Falklands war
Mapmaker(s):koontz1973
Number of Territories:68 start - 17 Neutral = 85 territs total
Special Features:None worth mentioning as yet.
What Makes This Map Worthy of Being Made:Another win for the British

Large869/833.

xml
http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/3006/1982s.png
Neutral starts.
[bigimg]http://i1050.photobucket.com/albums/s410/koontz1973/gottolovethoseneutrals.jpg[/bigimg]
[spoiler=gameplay notes]Games starts.
Reinforcements will be 1 for 4 with a minimum of 4
2P=22 territs - 5
3P=22 territs - 5
4P=17 territs - 4
5P=13 territs - 4
6P=11 territs - 4
7P=09 territs - 4
8P=08 territs - 4
Winning condition - None
Losing condition - None
Bonuses
18 positive
1 negative
No auto deploys
Will use positions to make sure the small bonus regions (25th,6MI, 2Bn and subs) are not able to be dropped for a bonus.[/spoiler]


[spoiler=previous versions]Large map
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/6848/bwfw.png
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/7201/falklandswarlarge.png
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/7201/falklandswarlarge.png
http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3793/falklandswarlarger.png
http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png
http://img683.imageshack.us/img683/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png
http://img542.imageshack.us/img542/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png
http://img257.imageshack.us/img257/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png
http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png
http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6400/fwpuzzlebonus.png
http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6400/fwpuzzlebonus.png
http://img17.imageshack.us/img17/9503/falklandswar.png
Small map
http://img815.imageshack.us/img815/7201/falklandswarlarge.png[/spoiler]

If you want to be notified when a new draft comes along. Let me know and I will PM you.

[alster]

Wow - looks like a great idea to begin with. And from the looks of it, something that I wouldn't mind playing on right away!

[Sniper08]

nice start koonitz, i got a few thoughts:

1)i think you need different colours for the troop bonuses as all bonuses the same green are gonna be difficult to understand even with the labeling.

2) i think you should use a carrier icons for hermes and invincible(i think they were the 2 carriers if my memory serves right)

3) the british had subs that sunk the argentine ship belgrano which sidelined the entire argentine navy so inluding a sub would be most wise

4)you show the military units but not the towns adding a few towns might be a good idea and lets say hold 3 towns for a bonus could be added aswell.

5) the planes generally attacked the ships throughout the war so having landing points on the island seems kinda out of place IMO.


thats all for now, ill go brush up on the war and come back with some new thoughts for next update

[neanderpaul14]

Awesome idea........great first draft

[koontz1973]

Thanks alstergren and neanderpaul14. Will try not to let anyone down.

nice start koonitz, i got a few thoughts:

1)i think you need different colours for the troop bonuses as all bonuses the same green are gonna be difficult to understand even with the labeling.

Will try some different shades, but was hoping to keep the samecolouring for all of the sea and land territs. If if I have to put in some different colours then can do so in a couple of versions. I will try different territ lines over the weekend to see if that helps at all.

2) i think you should use a carrier icons for hermes and invincible(i think they were the 2 carriers if my memory serves right)

Different icons are a must. They were the two carriers.

3) the british had subs that sunk the argentine ship belgrano which sidelined the entire argentine navy so inluding a sub would be most wise

I wanted to stay away from the subs because of the Belgrano. This is a bit of a touchy subject with the Argentines and the Brits. If others think it is OK, then will add it later.

4)you show the military units but not the towns adding a few towns might be a good idea and lets say hold 3 towns for a bonus could be added aswell.

There are very few towns in the Falklands. Right now they are the landing zones, Been thinking about the background for these so maybe a town/village type of symbol or colour.

5) the planes generally attacked the ships throughout the war so having landing points on the island seems kinda out of place IMO.

The ships were attacked a lot any many were sunk.
But at the same time, Britain bombed the islands 3 times using Vulcan bombers and had the harrier jump jet stationed on the West island as soon as they could because of the sinking. But...
1.Having them attack the other LZ/s is to simulate helicopters ferrying troops around. I will replace the first plane with a helicopter to better show this.
2.Both sides used fighters to attack each others planes
3.The navel bombardment you talked about.
5.The Vulcan raids on the island.
4 and 6 are incentives to go after the neutrals.

thats all for now, ill go brush up on the war and come back with some new thoughts for next update

Great and as always Sniper, thanks.

Next update to include.

Town/ village icons for the LZ.
Different coloured territ lines to show of the bonuses better.
Change ships so not all the same.
Find new arrows.

[koontz1973]

Version 2.
[bigimg]http://img571.imageshack.us/img571/6400/fwpuzzlebonus.png[/bigimg]
Things changed.
Swapped some of the ships. Made some smaller or larger.
Redid the landing zones.
Made the land a puzzle of green. Not sure about this and may go back to all one green.
Swapped out the first airplane to a helicopter.
Changed airforce part of legend to show this.
Added rules of engagement part of legend.
Changed forests.

To do list
Going to work on the planes and helicopter icons.
Territ lines need to be made nice.

[koontz1973]

Surprised that there have been over 80 views and 3 comments. Does that mean this is good or bad. Should I carry on? Sod it, I will.
Version 3.
[bigimg]http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/6400/fwpuzzlebonus.png[/bigimg]
Changed.
Sea
Territ lines
Planes
More info in legend



If you want to be notified when a new draft comes along. Let me know and I will PM you.

[thehippo8]

Carry on Koontz ... must be something to do with the weather but I note a distinct lack of chatting at the mo! In fact, lack of response is probably the great unwashed's way of giving you the thumbs up - if they don't like it they will say!

Only commennt I can make is for you to consider defining the boundaries a bit more (ie the difference between the original and the replacement graphs I did - the defining of the lines in a 3-dish way made them pop out - maybe you could do something similar?).

Otherwise it looks well thought out to me!

[Victor Sullivan]

I'll admit I've been lurking. Just gathering my thoughts on the concept and gameplay is all.

-Sully

[koontz1973]

Carry on Koontz ... must be something to do with the weather but I note a distinct lack of chatting at the mo! In fact, lack of response is probably the great unwashed's way of giving you the thumbs up - if they don't like it they will say!

Only commennt I can make is for you to consider defining the boundaries a bit more (ie the difference between the original and the replacement graphs I did - the defining of the lines in a 3-dish way made them pop out - maybe you could do something similar?).

Otherwise it looks well thought out to me!

Can bring the lines out some more, will try a different colours and maybe some shading, but I was hoping to get away from pop value as it may detract from the original texture. Will have a go both ways and see what looks the best.

I'll admit I've been lurking. Just gathering my thoughts on the concept and gameplay is all.

-Sully

Stop lurking and get in there. Good or bad, I want to hear it.

[Sniper08]

ok to start off

1) you need to increase the neutrals of the aircraft as they are too important to be left at 2s

2) instead of having the ships are terr you can connect each with dots? idk about this one its just a thought.

3) put impassibles(the pic) into legend and redesign the woods or trees impassable as it doesnt look good imo.

4)I BN can stand to lose a terr and drop to a + 3 as there are a lot of + 4 out there so some evenness is needed.

5) again i come back to it i think you need to include subs in this as they were a huge part of the war.the argentines had the Santa fe and the british had some subs aswell

I wanted to stay away from the subs because of the Belgrano. This is a bit of a touchy subject with the Argentines and the Brits. If others think it is OK, then will add it later.

War maps are gonna be touching on peoples emotions but to make a great war map you need to include the most important parts of the war and the sinking of the belgrano was a big part of the war.

6) perhaps thrown in south sandwich island & south georgia aswell?

7)2 BN needs to be redesigned as you need to defend all the terr in that bonus just to hold it.

perhaps add swords icons at the important battle sites and give like a +2 for every 2 held?

9)instead of just circles as LZ, make them towns icons but still call them LZ?

10) we look a the ships from the side any chance they can be like the ships on the cuba map?
viewtopic.php?f=241&t=145088&hilit=cuba

[koontz1973]

ok to start off

1) you need to increase the neutrals of the aircraft as they are too important to be left at 2s

Will have a think about it. Right now, the first one is at 5 neutrals, going up as two per plane.

8 neutrals to attack enemy LZ's,
7 to shot enemy planes down,
9 to bombard ships,
11 to get bonus,
13 to bombard land territs,
15 to get second bonus.

2) instead of having the ships are terr you can connect each with dots? idk about this one its just a thought.

The lines would make it more confusing as you then get two different types of territs. Prefer to stay at one but will post a draft at a later stage with this for everyone to look at.

3) put impassibles(the pic) into legend and redesign the woods or trees impassable as it doesnt look good imo.

Trees look bad but work for now. If I end up doing the same as Rorke's Drift map, this is going to be a lot of work so they will get redesigned.

4)I BN can stand to lose a terr and drop to a + 3 as there are a lot of + 4 out there so some evenness is needed.

This I can do. I just need to look at the golden numbers to make sure I still end on one.

5) again i come back to it i think you need to include subs in this as they were a huge part of the war.the argentines had the Santa fe and the british had some subs aswell

Will add the subs. Had the idea of using them as impassables. Will put the British one in the bottom right corner and the Argentine one between Glasgow and Sheffield. This would not block the bombardments of the Argentine fleet.

6) perhaps thrown in south sandwich island & south georgia aswell?

Will look at there placement on a map but if I am correct, they are quite far away. I know the war started there but no real major fighting took place. It is also now not part of the Falklands Dependency.

7)2 BN needs to be redesigned as you need to defend all the terr in that bonus just to hold it.

Can move the arrow up a territ. Not much of a improvement but gives one clear territ till the (A)air force gets there.

8)perhaps add swords icons at the important battle sites and give like a +2 for every 2 held?

Sorry Sniper, but no bloody way. There is enough going on already. Lets try and keep it simple enough. I am not cairnswk. Saying that though, there are only 3 that I can think of on the top of my head anyway, Goose Green is 3MI 1, Port Stanley is the ALZ 3 and the first landings which include all of 1Bn and Coventry. Right now there are a lot of bonuses to be had (14). Do we need another?

9)instead of just circles as LZ, make them towns icons but still call them LZ?

Still looking at the icons. Like the squares before, these are just fillers for now. Removed the squares as they looked bloody awful

10) we look a the ships from the side any chance they can be like the ships on the cuba map? viewtopic.php?f=241&t=145088&hilit=cuba

The one thing about that map I truly hate and you want it on this one, I never liked the ships right from the beginning.

As always Sniper, thanks. Will get the next draft done sometime over the next day or two.

[ckyrias]

that looks good only to start with. i am totally inexperienced in judging the map but i will do my best and post my thoughts later on! good work buddy!

[charmir]

that looks awsome, once we play on the map I'll have a better understanding and give detailed feed back.
Charmir
PS. Great work buddy

[koontz1973]

Version 4.
[bigimg]http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png[/bigimg]

Things changed.
Kept the sea territs.
Added subs to the sea as impassables. These are not the final subs but the positioning
should be good unless it buggers gameplay up.
Removed a territ from 1Bn and lowered the bonus.
Added impassables to legend.
Raised arrow from 2Bn4 to 2Bn3.
Changed town icon.
Finished Rules of Engagement.

Any chance of a sticky foundry Gods?

[Flapcake]

Anohter cool from Koontz

My comment, the subs look wird placed, I know they are obstacles. I dont know if ther was any subs that participated in the Falklands war ? I think they would look More natrual if they was aling with the fleet, maby deep-water bombs could replace them for obstacles ?

[koontz1973]

Anohter cool from Koontz

My comment, the subs look wird placed, I know they are obstacles. I dont know if ther was any subs that participated in the Falklands war ? I think they would look More natrual if they was aling with the fleet, maby deep-water bombs could replace them for obstacles ?

Thanks Flap. Subs where used. One of the biggest loss of lives was when one of the UK subs sunk the Belgrano. I know they look weird at the moment, but they are just in as a way to visualize the impassable. I might make them part of the fleets, but based in each other navies.

[isaiah40]

Stickied for now. Will get this stamped in a couple.

[koontz1973]

Stickied for now. Will get this stamped in a couple.

Thanks isaiah, wondering where everyone was.

[isaiah40]

Stickied for now. Will get this stamped in a couple.

Thanks isaiah, wondering where everyone was.

Going around the block in RL! And my block is very big! Like a few million square miles big!

[koontz1973]

Version 5.
[bigimg]http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9461/falklandswarpuzzle.png[/bigimg]
Few changes to legend and gameplay. Removed the subs as impassables and placed them in the fleets. Added mines to the sea impassables.

[thehippo8]

Much nicerer!

[pamoa]

very nice map

maybe the aircraft scale should be with some arrow drawn on it to be clearer
1 LZ is it attack (taking control) or just bombard
2 enemies
3 +3
4 naval
5 +5
6 land
so the objective of spending so much troops on this scale is to be able to wipe out the map
maybe you should find some way of having unbombardable zone to keep players alive on the map
else you may end with two players stuck in the last 4 levels unable to end the game

may I suggest a more contrasted colour palette

[koontz1973]

very nice map

maybe the aircraft scale should be with some arrow drawn on it to be clearer
1 LZ is it attack (taking control) or just bombard
2 enemies
3 +3
4 naval
5 +5
6 land
so the objective of spending so much troops on this scale is to be able to wipe out the map
maybe you should find some way of having unbombardable zone to keep players alive on the map
else you may end with two players stuck in the last 4 levels unable to end the game

may I suggest a more contrasted colour palette

Thanks for input. Attack the LZs means just that, the others have bombard written as a planes cannot attack and occupy a ship, sink it yes. About the idea of having safe zones, not sure as how can you say a planes cannot fly anywhere. To get to the land forces part, you need to get past 13 neutrals before you can start to spend troops on ground forces. That is a lot to get through. My idea for it was to have some way to break deadlocks as most games will probably not use it. But I see what you mean about the last 4 and not being able to finish the game off. If I make aircraft 2 a +2 bonus and at the bottom where I have space, put in something like all aircraft can shot down other aircraft. That solves that problem.

I like the colours you showed, but is that for the map or the plane strip. If it is for the strip, then it will be done. Thanks for that.

The arrows will go back in. Just trying to find one that suits the map.

[danryan]

Argintine should be Argentine, several spots on the map. Very cool concept, I like it.