Conquer Club

Last night, I was on David Asman’s Fox Business Channel show, Scoreboard, debating Imam Dawoud Kringle of the New York State prison system, a GZ mosque supporter. Imam Kringle, who seems like a nice enough fellow, reeled off the usual talking points about how Islam forbids terrorism and, therefore, if someone commits an act of terrorism that act is, by definition, un-Islamic.

Then came the moment of truth: the very simple question, “Is Hamas a terrorist organization?” Have a look at the YouTube clip below. Like his friend Imam Feisal Rauf, Imam Kringle won’t answer the question. I pressed him, pointing out that it is a very simple question. And it is: Quite apart from the fact that Hamas is formally designated as a terrorist organization under U.S. law, Hamas’s own charter makes abundantly clear — indeed, wears like a badge of honor — that Hamas exists solely for the purpose of driving Israel out of Palestine by violent jihad. Yet the imam cannot bring himself to say Hamas is a terrorist organization.

tzor wrote:Another ‘Moderate’ GZ Mosque Supporter Can’t Bring Himself to Call Hamas a Terrorist Organization - National Review Online

Last night, I was on David Asman’s Fox Business Channel show, Scoreboard, debating Imam Dawoud Kringle of the New York State prison system, a GZ mosque supporter. Imam Kringle, who seems like a nice enough fellow, reeled off the usual talking points about how Islam forbids terrorism and, therefore, if someone commits an act of terrorism that act is, by definition, un-Islamic.

Then came the moment of truth: the very simple question, “Is Hamas a terrorist organization?” Have a look at the YouTube clip below. Like his friend Imam Feisal Rauf, Imam Kringle won’t answer the question. I pressed him, pointing out that it is a very simple question. And it is: Quite apart from the fact that Hamas is formally designated as a terrorist organization under U.S. law, Hamas’s own charter makes abundantly clear — indeed, wears like a badge of honor — that Hamas exists solely for the purpose of driving Israel out of Palestine by violent jihad. Yet the imam cannot bring himself to say Hamas is a terrorist organization.

heavycola wrote:
Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

Juan_Bottom wrote:

heavycola wrote:
Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

I too, would like to hear why others label Hamas a Terrorist Organization. Another question I would like to hear answered in the same is whether or not they would call the IDF or even Israel's politicians terrorists as well.

ksslemp wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:

heavycola wrote:
Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

I too, would like to hear why others label Hamas a Terrorist Organization. Another question I would like to hear answered in the same is whether or not they would call the IDF or even Israel's politicians terrorists as well.

Does Israel commit military operations to foment terror among the population? NO
Do they raise their children in the hopes that one day they will strap on explosives and vaporize a busload of innocents? NO

mviola wrote:

ksslemp wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:

heavycola wrote:
Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

I too, would like to hear why others label Hamas a Terrorist Organization. Another question I would like to hear answered in the same is whether or not they would call the IDF or even Israel's politicians terrorists as well.

Does Israel commit military operations to foment terror among the population? NO
Do they raise their children in the hopes that one day they will strap on explosives and vaporize a busload of innocents? NO

First part, yes.

ksslemp wrote:Would the Palestinians be happier without Hamas?

Would there be enclaves like today?

Would the west bank be a better place to raise a family?

and do those that live there now even care about that?

What would happen if Hamas ceased to exist?

Would there be blockades without Hamas?

MeDeFe wrote:

ksslemp wrote:Would the Palestinians be happier without Hamas?

Probably not. Hamas provides a fair amount of services which the Palestinian government doesn't have the means of providing.
Hmm, really? I'm sure more aid than they know what to do with would flow into these areas if it wasn't for Hamas.

Would there be enclaves like today?

I'm not sure what you're referring to so I can't answer.
I.E. West Bank enclave....... Answer: NO

Would the west bank be a better place to raise a family?

I'm leaning towards "no".
You must have bit your lip when writing that.

and do those that live there now even care about that?

I think they do.
I am apt to agree, they just can't do anything about it while Hamas is in control.

What would happen if Hamas ceased to exist?

Fewer rockets would do next to no damage on territory claimed by Israel. Other than that, probably nothing.
yes + Palestinian children would be free to think and feel as they see fit without the thought police looking over their shoulders and being brainwashed in their schools.

Would there be blockades without Hamas?

Indubitably.
This answer more than any other makes everyone painfully aware that you lack intellectual honesty.


It's as Metsfanmax said, the question isn't easy at all.

Hmm, really? I'm sure more aid than they know what to do with would flow into these areas if it wasn't for Hamas.

ksslemp wrote:I.E. West Bank enclave....... Answer: NO

ksslemp wrote:You must have bit your lip when writing that.

Amnesty International concluded in its October 2000 report that: “The Israeli security services were almost invariably well-defended, located at a distance from demonstrators in good cover, in blockhouses, behind wire or well-protected by riot shields.” The pretext for the use of lethal force, Amnesty found, was simply a fabrication. “Certainly, stones—or even petrol bombs—cannot be said to have endangered the lives of Israeli security services in any of the instances examined by Amnesty International.” One Israeli sniper privately revealed that soldiers are permitted to shoot at Palestinians who pose a potential threat, as long as they appear to be over the age of 12. “Twelve and up is allowed,” he confessed. A senior IDF officer also admitted: “Nobody can convince me we didn’t needlessly kill dozens of children.”

ksslemp wrote:This answer more than any other makes everyone painfully aware that you lack intellectual honesty.

heavycola wrote:2) they are towelheads

tzor wrote:Another ‘Moderate’ GZ Mosque Supporter Can’t Bring Himself to Call Hamas a Terrorist Organization - National Review Online

Last night, I was on David Asman’s Fox Business Channel show, Scoreboard, debating Imam Dawoud Kringle of the New York State prison system, a GZ mosque supporter. Imam Kringle, who seems like a nice enough fellow, reeled off the usual talking points about how Islam forbids terrorism and, therefore, if someone commits an act of terrorism that act is, by definition, un-Islamic.

Then came the moment of truth: the very simple question, “Is Hamas a terrorist organization?” Have a look at the YouTube clip below. Like his friend Imam Feisal Rauf, Imam Kringle won’t answer the question. I pressed him, pointing out that it is a very simple question. And it is: Quite apart from the fact that Hamas is formally designated as a terrorist organization under U.S. law, Hamas’s own charter makes abundantly clear — indeed, wears like a badge of honor — that Hamas exists solely for the purpose of driving Israel out of Palestine by violent jihad. Yet the imam cannot bring himself to say Hamas is a terrorist organization.

comic boy wrote:Was the IRA a terrorist organisation ?

The UVF's declared goal was to destroy Irish republican paramilitary groups. However, the vast majority (more than two-thirds) of its 481 known victims were Catholic civilians. During the conflict, its deadliest attack in Northern Ireland was the "McGurk's Bar bombing", which killed 15 civilians. The group also carried out a handful of attacks in the Republic of Ireland, the most deadly of which was the "Dublin and Monaghan bombings" — this killed 33 civilians, the highest number of deaths in a single day during the conflict.

heavycola wrote:the US says so

Metsfanmax wrote:I don't think it's a very simple question. After all, the argument given is totally incorrect - the US overthrew Saddam's regime violently, but the US didn't label itself a terrorist organization. Terrorism is the deliberate creation of fear in an enemy population to coerce them to do something. That's not the same as the violent destruction of Israel. That makes them warlike and destructive, it doesn't necessarily make them terrorists.

b.k. barunt wrote:

Metsfanmax wrote:I don't think it's a very simple question. After all, the argument given is totally incorrect - the US overthrew Saddam's regime violently, but the US didn't label itself a terrorist organization. Terrorism is the deliberate creation of fear in an enemy population to coerce them to do something. That's not the same as the violent destruction of Israel. That makes them warlike and destructive, it doesn't necessarily make them terrorists.

Sorry dude, but that's gotta be one of the most ignorant attempts at dancing around the truth that i've heard yet. You just compared out and out warfare to terrorism, then compare Hamas' methods to that of the US military. Like i said, ignorant.


Honibaz

ksslemp wrote:

Juan_Bottom wrote:

heavycola wrote:
Why do you believe hamas is a terrorist organisation?

I too, would like to hear why others label Hamas a Terrorist Organization. Another question I would like to hear answered in the same is whether or not they would call the IDF or even Israel's politicians terrorists as well.

Does Israel commit military operations to foment terror among the population? Yes