Conquer Club

My point of view- not supporting a football team, finding the sport boring, and generally finding football fans to be obnoxious does not make you a football fan.

define "atheism" and "religion" so we're all on the same wavelength...

Symmetry wrote:My point of view- not supporting a football team, finding the sport boring, and generally finding football fans to be obnoxious does not make you a football fan.

yes but the fervor within which non-believers speak and the ridicule used implies they must be interested, or else why would they spend to much time following around football fans telling them how stupid football is? everyday? over and over again?

I can't get the pdf file link to open from my computer, but there is a judgment from the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals that says atheism is a religion. At least in the eyes of the law it is recognized as such.

This link is just the straight text, without the nice pdf pages.

http://www.altlaw.org/v1/cases/1136642

anarchy is not government.
atheism is not religion.

Phatscotty wrote:

Symmetry wrote:My point of view- not supporting a football team, finding the sport boring, and generally finding football fans to be obnoxious does not make you a football fan.

yes but the fervor within which non-believers speak and the ridicule used implies they must be interested, or else why would they spend to much time following around football fans telling them how stupid football is? everyday? over and over again?

People talk about lots of things with fervor. Having a strong opinion is different from having a religion.

DangerBoy wrote:I can't get the pdf file link to open from my computer, but there is a judgment from the 7th Circuit Court of Appeals that says atheism is a religion. At least in the eyes of the law it is recognized as such.

This link is just the straight text, without the nice pdf pages.

http://www.altlaw.org/v1/cases/1136642

Interesting, and I agree with the decision. Just because someone is an atheist doesn't mean that they no longer have first amendment religious protection to act on their beliefs.

simple answer is

no

Oh and by the way, let's avoid the usual dumb comparisons to football, anarchy, stamp collecting, or whatever. Those don't mean anything. Make your point using actual reasoning and logic.



EDIT: Also avoid posts like the one above.

...how long will it be before the goodists retreat into "well, we'll have to agree to disagree"?

At least in the United States, the reason why atheists want to run away from the religious title is because their proactive efforts to remove theistic symbolism and acknowledgment of a Creator from public schools, buildings, and other facilities could itself be seen as an establishment of religion. In order to have the upper hand in the argument, they must avoid having the term religious associated with their worldview.

Of course it is religious, not only due to the court ruling previously cited, but also because there are atheist churches with their own ministers that are recognized as such. There are also atheistic chaplains on some university campuses. It may not be a religion which recognizes a deity, but it is religious in the sense that it's a worldview that is protected.

i voted no, did some more research and now have to conclude that it can be...
atheism and religion are not mutually exclusive, even though i find it wierd, but there is it.. wierd..

Religion is a set a beliefs. Isn't atheism no belief? There is this life and the rest is unknown?

john9blue wrote:define "atheism" and "religion" so we're all on the same wavelength...

This doesn't really answer your question, but one of the best comments I've heard was when someone said that atheism has trouble separating itself from religion because as soon as you start talking about belief you start using a word that is pretty much owned by religious discourse.

If you like, all belief is religious belief. We don't always have a clear idea of belief that can be separate from religion.

Strong atheism is just as much a religion as Christianity, because there's as much evidence to support the existence of God as the non-existence of God. However, agnosticism is not a religion.

its not, religion is based on belief and atheism is the absence of such belief.

beezer wrote:At least in the United States, the reason why atheists want to run away from the religious title is because their proactive efforts to remove theistic symbolism and acknowledgment of a Creator from public schools, buildings, and other facilities could itself be seen as an establishment of religion. In order to have the upper hand in the argument, they must avoid having the term religious associated with their worldview.

Of course it is religious, not only due to the court ruling previously cited, but also because there are atheist churches with their own ministers that are recognized as such. There are also atheistic chaplains on some university campuses. It may not be a religion which recognizes a deity, but it is religious in the sense that it's a worldview that is protected.

No it could no be seen as an establishment of religion. We are not telling kids there is no God we are telling them nothing about God and allowing them and their families decide that for themselves. And I have never heard of any atheist churches before. A very strange brand of atheist they must be. I wonder what they would worship in service.

Another indication that atheism is not equal to religion is the fact that there is absolutely no practices associated with it. No atheist goes to atheist service at the atheist church and has special atheist dinner during the atheist month of fasting in celebration of athiesm or anything of that sort.

No

signed, an atheist

Please tell us more about atheist churches, I am puzzled by the concept.

Metsfanmax wrote:Strong atheism is just as much a religion as Christianity, because there's as much evidence to support the existence of God as the non-existence of God. However, agnosticism is not a religion.

I have a problem with this argument. Christianity relies on a system of beliefs. It's fair to say that belief in a supernatural power, and not believing in a supernatural power are equally unprovable, but when you associate other beliefs with the belief in a god then I see divergence.

Christianity believes in a lot more than just a supernatural power. It's a whole system of beliefs. For example, the supernatural power is God, a trinity, with a son born to redeem humanity's sins. A creation, an apocalypse, an afterlife. These beliefs don't span naturally from a belief in a supernatural power.

In atheism, disbelief in a supernatural power seems to be the only major belief. It's not a system. Disbelieve in a supernatural power and Jesus can't be the son of a supernatural power, true, but that doesn't feel like it's a separate belief. Just the application of the original.

I would call it a Religious belief but not a religion. Atheists have no commonalities other than disbelieving religion I don't think that amounts to a religion. So Atheists are entitled to protection under freedom of religious practice type laws despite not actually belonging to a religion

It is as much a religion as any other belief. There are atheist "churches", but having a church is not a requirement for a religion. Only a belief.


Now, if you say organized religion.. that is a different story.

PLAYER57832 wrote:It is as much a religion as any other belief. There are atheist "churches", but having a church is not a requirement for a religion. Only a belief.


Now, if you say organized religion.. that is a different story.

I've heard a couple of people mention atheist churches now on this thread. I've got to be honest, I've never come across one, and I've lived in quite a few major cities around the world. Is this a new thing? Where are they?

Same here symmetry, never heard of one

alan.duanmu wrote:Same here symmetry, never heard of one

It wouldn't surprise me if a few of the more militant atheists set one up as a protest (I really hate the term militant atheist). But it's definitely a leap to suggest that atheists have their own churches.

jonesthecurl wrote:Please tell us more about atheist churches, I am puzzled by the concept.

alan.duanmu wrote:No atheist goes to atheist service at the atheist church and has special atheist dinner during the atheist month of fasting in celebration of athiesm or anything of that sort.

Really?

Then you might want to shoot off an email or contact just a few of the following links.

http://www.factschurch.com/
http://www.hcof.org/
http://www.churchoffreethought.org/
http://www.meetup.com/HeathensDoItBette ... /12547952/ - take off your shoes first before you go in this guy's apartment, though

If you'd like to be an ordained minister of atheism .........

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/

.........or you can find an atheist minister in your area

http://firstchurchofatheism.com/index.p ... your-area/

Atheism is religious