Conquer Club

Phatscotty wrote:satan vs satan?

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:satan vs satan?

not quite, there's parts that vary in evilness.

Hitler's racial agenda just doesn't look good in the textbooks compared to Stalin's mass famines, killing quotas, and ethnic cleansing--well, if you consider the Ukrainians to be an actual ethincity, that's probably the improper term..

PLAYER57832 wrote:We in the US tend to see Hitler as the "ultimate villian" because he was closer to us, impacted us more directly. Also, he was particularly "methodical" and even "civilized"(in a very diabolical way). Stalin was not a direct threat the the US, was more removed. Pol Pot was just "another of those "strange countries".

However, in truth, I think the Japanese, in WWII were probably among the worst. And, well, the US gets no blue ribbons for its treatment of Native Americans, obliterating whole peoples.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

BigBallinStalin wrote:

Phatscotty wrote:satan vs satan?

not quite, there's parts that vary in evilness.

Hitler's racial agenda just doesn't look good in the textbooks compared to Stalin's mass famines, killing quotas, and ethnic cleansing--well, if you consider the Ukrainians to be an actual ethincity, that's probably the improper term..

From what I've read the Ukrainian "genocide" was more a result of fucking over rural peasants in favor of the industrial proletariat, as there were peasants starving in Russia proper as well.

BigBallinStalin wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:We in the US tend to see Hitler as the "ultimate villian" because he was closer to us, impacted us more directly. Also, he was particularly "methodical" and even "civilized"(in a very diabolical way). Stalin was not a direct threat the the US, was more removed. Pol Pot was just "another of those "strange countries".

However, in truth, I think the Japanese, in WWII were probably among the worst. And, well, the US gets no blue ribbons for its treatment of Native Americans, obliterating whole peoples.

As far as the "Rape of Nanjing" is concerned, the Germans and Russians killed more of each others' civilians compared to the Japanese v. the Chinese, so I'm not too outraged about how the Japanese handled their affairs in China. What makes the Japanese the worst? They didn't have systematic programs of eliminating entire ethnic groups like the Nazis did. What can be more diabolical than that?

jefjef wrote:Stalin was the larger evil. He would have murdered every single person to ensure communist rule/victory.

Hitler would have killed all but 2 to ensure the survival of the master race.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

jefjef wrote:Stalin was the larger evil. He would have murdered every single person to ensure communist rule/victory.

Hitler would have killed all but 2 to ensure the survival of the master race.

If he murdered everyone there wouldn't be anyone to rule. Stalin killed only to ensure loyalty or obedience.

Hitler's murder was for regardless of loyalty or actions, he would kill you simply for not being German. I suppose if Hitler had won eventually there would be less killing after Nazism had killed all non Aryans while Communism would just keep on killing people to maintain control. So maybe you have an argument there.

PLAYER57832 wrote:

Baron Von PWN wrote:

jefjef wrote:Stalin was the larger evil. He would have murdered every single person to ensure communist rule/victory.

Hitler would have killed all but 2 to ensure the survival of the master race.

If he murdered everyone there wouldn't be anyone to rule. Stalin killed only to ensure loyalty or obedience.

Hitler's murder was for regardless of loyalty or actions, he would kill you simply for not being German. I suppose if Hitler had won eventually there would be less killing after Nazism had killed all non Aryans while Communism would just keep on killing people to maintain control. So maybe you have an argument there.

Except Hitler killed to maintain control, also.

PLAYER57832 wrote:Not to spin this off, but my understanding was that Stalin pursued his own ehtnic cleansing agenda as well as the power issue, but that it is not necessarily as "publicized" or as "cut and dry" as with HItler. That is, a lot of his "political" assassinations had definite ethnic overtones as well.

Baron Von PWN wrote:

PLAYER57832 wrote:Not to spin this off, but my understanding was that Stalin pursued his own ehtnic cleansing agenda as well as the power issue, but that it is not necessarily as "publicized" or as "cut and dry" as with HItler. That is, a lot of his "political" assassinations had definite ethnic overtones as well.

It is certainly true that Stalin mistrusted the ethnic minorities and was rather anti-semitic himself. It isin't clear though why he ordered purges or attacks on some groups. During Tsarist times most of the various ethinicities of the empire were left to their own devices so long as they swore loyalty to the tsar. So when Stalin tried to collectivize Khyrgiz nomads who had been used to being able to do their own thing they resisted, because they resisted they couldn't be trusted which led to arrests and deportations. That was repeated in various other communities for similar reasons.

It should also be noted that the Soviets went out of their way to create the various ethnic republics and garanteed their protection. So i don't think it was due to their ethnicities these groups were killed, more that their cultural practices were more likely to be at odds with Stalinism.

So it isin't clear that these clashes with the minorities were ethnicly motivated so much as because of their cultural practices they resisted Moscow's directives. It wouldn't surprise me if some of the more political murders (former communist) were at least influenced by Stalin's prejudices.

monster10 wrote:obama is worse then both

I have two glasses of urine. Which tastes worse?

2dimes wrote:This is almost subjective no?

I have two glasses of urine. Which tastes worse?

MaryPoppins57832 wrote:Just a spoon full of sugar helps the Urine go down.

Uncle Waldo wrote:They were both nuts and both had differant issues. Serious issues. However, they both had differant psychosese and differant agendas. Hitler and the Nazis were not only very proud of what they were doing, they all felt they were going to win in the end. So their exploits are very well documented and recorded. Not a whole lot was known at all or at the very least wasn't reported in the U.S. about Stalin and his attrocities until the late 80's. At the end of the day, when the final tally is kept and if you're going to be objective, I feel if you're really going to pick a "winner" out of the two for "most crazy". You have to go with Stalin. Stalin targeted artists and intellectualls first and formost above all other things. Russia and/or it's gene pool will be fucked up for centuries if not milleniums. Germany is doing just fine and Jews... Well, they damn sure still haven't gotten over it intellectually or emotionally... So, Stalin first. Hitler second. Not a short second but not a distant second either.

(at least that's what the history books will say; still got it)