Conquer Club

slowreactor wrote:

Evil Semp wrote:I don't think you can exclude any group. By excluding the mods in this group wouldn't that be saying that the mods are the problem?

Here's the thing. Some people actually DO think the mods are the problem, and even though I personally don't, some people will think that the mods' voices will drown out theirs if there are mods in this focus group.

I understand that. I can see that in the forums. But if you eliminate one side of the discussion do you have a discussion? Maybe the mods in question think that "some people" are the problem. If mods aren't allowed then you are eliminating one part of the discussion/solution.

There won't be a solution without participation from all view points.

The focus group should reflect the community, therefore, as OP originally wrote, there should be representation from all facets of the site, including mods. I would think this would be a welcome opportunity to engage the mods in conversation and perhaps learn a little more about their perspective.

Many excellent people have been nominated and re-nominated. In addition to worthy candidates like Mr. C and Woodruff, I would like to submit [player]JoshyBoy[/player] and second [player]oVo[/player]. They are active in the forums, have a great sense of fun, and are committed to cc. I think they would bring something else to the table, perhaps some levity and good humor, while testing new additions to the site.

i nominate....whitetazn88.
And i'd be happy to be included in any such group...appreciation to those who nominated me.

Timminz wrote:
I really think that the admins, and (more importantly) the owner, should be included in the discussion.

While I agree they should be involved, I tend to think that it's more important the moderators are in and adding input. Dispite how many times they've been made fun of, the moderators are much more active in the community at CC; lack, although I'm assuming he reads some of it, doesn't do as much around here as the moderators when it comes to the community.

I'd rather have people who know who has a mean streak of being a sarcastic asshole be involved, so they know when members are just saying things out there ass, then a man that barely interacts with his own creations members.

Kotaro wrote:I'd rather have people who know who has a mean streak of being a sarcastic asshole be involved, so they know when members are just saying things out there ass, then a man that barely interacts with his own creations members.

I would hope that anyone selected to be a part of this group would know enough to leave any ass-talking at the door, if they are truly partaking for the right reasons.

Timminz wrote:

Kotaro wrote:I'd rather have people who know who has a mean streak of being a sarcastic asshole be involved, so they know when members are just saying things out there ass, then a man that barely interacts with his own creations members.

I would hope that anyone selected to be a part of this group would know enough to leave any ass-talking at the door, if they are truly partaking for the right reasons.

All members of this group should leave any animosity at the door otherwise this will be an exercise in futility.

Timminz wrote:

Kotaro wrote:I'd rather have people who know who has a mean streak of being a sarcastic asshole be involved, so they know when members are just saying things out there ass, then a man that barely interacts with his own creations members.

I would hope that anyone selected to be a part of this group would know enough to leave any ass-talking at the door, if they are truly partaking for the right reasons.

Well, heated discussions can be rather inevitable when two sides reach a stalemate about a topic. I'm not saying to downright flame but, you can't have a discussion without an argument so to speak. I mean, otherwise it'll be, "hey I like this idea, you?"
"Well no, but since you like let's use it anyway."
"Thank you, Pokey!"
"You're welcome, Gumby."
We wouldn't want that now would we?

If Optimus Prime were to seriously consider all options, and (somehow) come to the conclusion that colton24 was acceptable, and so was owenshooter, Timminz, King_Herpes, the.killing.44, and jefjef (honestly, that would be the worst possible line-up ever), there is no possible way that the 5 last mentioned members would have any self-control. Honestly, they can't even control themselves on any of the forums, and they would troll colton, either passively or aggressively, and there would be problems. Having moderators and admins that notice the behavior continuing from past experience and deal with the users more severely then lack might be, since it's obvious they won't change.

Kotaro wrote:If Optimus Prime were to seriously consider all options, and (somehow) come to the conclusion that colton24 was acceptable, and so was owenshooter, Timminz, King_Herpes, the.killing.44, and jefjef (honestly, that would be the worst possible line-up ever), there is no possible way that the 5 last mentioned members would have any self-control. Honestly, they can't even control themselves on any of the forums, and they would troll colton, either passively or aggressively, and there would be problems. Having moderators and admins that notice the behavior continuing from past experience and deal with the users more severely then lack might be, since it's obvious they won't change.

I think .44 does fine, can come off as rude but isn't always. Timminz isn't really that bad of a person, can be rather helpful but does have some moments. Colton, I would say is rather a bad choice. I don't think he has been here near long enough to be in on the situations at hand or be able to contribute as much as other for-mention players. I haven't seen much of jefjef's views in OT discussions or GD, but he seems to be able to hold his own in C&A. owen is a decent guy in my eyes, he can come off as a bit sarcastic and rude, but he's really just looking to help. KH, well he can be offensive but didn't OP ask for people from all ends, KH is currently one of the top ends on the scoreboard.

My point wasn't towards the individual as a whole (although for jefjef, see; viewtopic.php?f=4&t=94204 ), but rather, how they ALL act towards colton24, and how colton24, being a kid, is less knowledgeable about the site, and has a lot less restraint/maturity.

All these users as a standalone users would not be bad; how they would interact with each other... Spam/troll fest

Kotaro wrote:My point wasn't towards the individual as a whole (although for jefjef, see; viewtopic.php?f=4&t=94204 ), but rather, how they ALL act towards colton24, and how colton24, being a kid, is less knowledgeable about the site, and has a lot less restraint/maturity.

All these users as a standalone users would not be bad; how they would interact with each other... Spam/troll fest

Ah, I see. Well, colton does seem to be the source of them attacking him, I think it's because he gets so upset about every little thing even though they're joking. He has also made a fool of himself in some cases and some people just can't resist a laugh no matter what expense. I think saxitoxin as well wouldn't be easy to get along with, people ask him to stop and he doesn't, then things get escalated and people take the bait and are fed up.

I don't really know what the mods/admin are aiming for here, but if there's community involvement and modadmin involvement, why not go for a bicameral system? It's practiced in USA, Canada, Australia, and Germany, it should be good enough for CC.

Kotaro wrote:If Optimus Prime were to seriously consider all options, and (somehow) come to the conclusion that colton24 was acceptable, and so was owenshooter, Timminz, King_Herpes, the.killing.44, and jefjef (honestly, that would be the worst possible line-up ever), there is no possible way that the 5 last mentioned members would have any self-control. Honestly, they can't even control themselves on any of the forums, and they would troll colton, either passively or aggressively, and there would be problems. Having moderators and admins that notice the behavior continuing from past experience and deal with the users more severely then lack might be, since it's obvious they won't change.

While I would tend to agree that that list would make for an utterly useless group (and I'm certain that any actual panel would look nothing like the list you've posted), I do have to wonder whether you think your constant negativity is helping in any way whatsoever. The only way anything like this is going to affect any real progress, is if everyone involved (not just in whatever group, but this discussion as well) approaches it with a positive outlook, and an honest desire to have CC continue to be the thriving, enjoyable community it is (or once was, in some people's minds). If you're going to come up with hypothetical situations, why not try to think of some that you think might be able to achieve something useful? Coming up with hypothetical scenarios that are most likely to crash and burn is not productive. You seem to be a relatively intelligent person. I know you could provide positive, meaningful input, if you wanted to.

Strife wrote:Ah, I see. Well, colton does seem to be the source of them attacking him, I think it's because he gets so upset about every little thing even though they're joking. He has also made a fool of himself in some cases and some people just can't resist a laugh no matter what expense. I think saxitoxin as well wouldn't be easy to get along with, people ask him to stop and he doesn't, then things get escalated and people take the bait and are fed up.

My point exactly, they can't resist a laugh, which starts another post, that demands another laugh..

OP needs to be really careful about who he chooses, and also, keep an eye on what happens.

@Timminz;
I didn't ask to be suggested, nor would I actually think I would help. I left an old game once, because a Board Admin banned me since he was on the way out, and no one at the time could help me (mass panic due to a DDOS server attack). When I first came in, I was as helpful as any other person. Then I was warned for doing nothing, and when I tried to get actual abusers warned, I was told "it's not our job, we're only volunteers", and they expected me to hunt through every post and find all cases where someone was trolling, since they couldn't be expected to warn anyone for trolling without at least 5,000 posts of trolling.

I've long since given up helping here. Instead, I'm submitting my Data Protection and European Cyberterrorism Convention Agreement and Security Signature for my old site, to be a moderator there.

Kotaro wrote:I've long since given up helping here.

I can understand the feeling. Given that that's the case though, don't you think that this thread might not be the best place for you at this point in time? If you've not interested in helping, what other reason do you have to be posting here?

Take a look at this thread. Most aren't suggesting people that would actually help; they're suggesting the most controversial, the most funny, even the most annoying and destructive users. I gave a list a few days back of very help people, because no one else will.

If this project actually has an chance of success, which I'm rooting for, they'll need actually helpful people. And then they'll actually get something done, and thus, more things for me to play with.

Kotaro wrote:Take a look at this thread. Most aren't suggesting people that would actually help; they're suggesting the most controversial, the most funny, even the most annoying and destructive users.

I see what you're talking about. There have been plenty of ridiculous recommendations, but there have also been lots of actual, useful suggestions. I have no doubt that Optimus could put together an excellent group from the people mentioned in this thread. A group that would have the desire and the ability to help bring positive changes to this community. And I trust that he knows enough to know which members being suggested would be willing, and able to contribute in a positive, and meaningful manner, and which ones would not.

Kotaro wrote:Take a look at this thread. Most aren't suggesting people that would actually help; they're suggesting the most controversial, the most funny, even the most annoying and destructive users. I gave a list a few days back of very help people, because no one else will.
If this project actually has an chance of success, which I'm rooting for, they'll need actually helpful people. And then they'll actually get something done, and thus, more things for me to play with.

There have been some...odd...recommendations (some whackjob even nominated you <smile>), but I am confident that Optimus has the ability to distinguish between those who would be helpful to the goals he has in mind and those who would not.

Kotaro wrote:If Optimus Prime were to seriously consider all options, and (somehow) come to the conclusion that (list of names Kotaro doesn't prefer) there is no possible way that the 5 last mentioned members would have any self-control.

I've worked with a lot of teams on a variety of projects. Sometimes the most outrageous people become the most productive, when they have an appropriate outlet to use their cleverness. The rest tend to drift off; it takes time and commitment to be on a team. If OP were to exclude anyone that someone else disagrees with, he'd likely end up with a list of zero; and if he picks only those he knows would work well with him, he might be limiting the team's ability to generate effective new ideas.

jpcloet wrote:

Optimus Prime wrote:For some future projects here at Conquer Club I am going to be in need of a "focus group" of sorts.

I think some are completely missing the point. My understanding of OPrime's request is that this is about projects, not about moderating the mods. So the question really is, who wants to help design/comment/suggest/help implement on future projects that can help the site?

Well he doesn't actually state that does he? The information given is very limited so perhaps my thought that it may be some sort of check and balance system is wrong. However, I strongly believe we need a check and balance system here.
Who's watching the police?

Optimus and Andy both do.

notyou2 wrote:

jpcloet wrote:

Optimus Prime wrote:For some future projects here at Conquer Club I am going to be in need of a "focus group" of sorts.

I think some are completely missing the point. My understanding of OPrime's request is that this is about projects, not about moderating the mods. So the question really is, who wants to help design/comment/suggest/help implement on future projects that can help the site?

Well he doesn't actually state that does he? The information given is very limited so perhaps my thought that it may be some sort of check and balance system is wrong. However, I strongly believe we need a check and balance system here.
Who's watching the police?

I have to admit I thought the same thing. And reading this thread I think that is what most posters thought. Maybe we were trying to read between the lines.

Evil Semp wrote:

notyou2 wrote:

jpcloet wrote:

Optimus Prime wrote:For some future projects here at Conquer Club I am going to be in need of a "focus group" of sorts.

I think some are completely missing the point. My understanding of OPrime's request is that this is about projects, not about moderating the mods. So the question really is, who wants to help design/comment/suggest/help implement on future projects that can help the site?

Well he doesn't actually state that does he? The information given is very limited so perhaps my thought that it may be some sort of check and balance system is wrong. However, I strongly believe we need a check and balance system here.
Who's watching the police?

I have to admit I thought the same thing. And reading this thread I think that is what most posters thought. Maybe we were trying to read between the lines.

More likely, it was a case of "seeing what you were hoping to see" for most of us.

Timminz wrote: I know you could provide positive, meaningful input, if you wanted to.

That statement probably applies to most of the people listed.

jpcloet wrote:
I think some are completely missing the point. My understanding of OPrime's request is that this is about projects, not about moderating the mods. So the question really is, who wants to help design/comment/suggest/help implement on future projects that can help the site?

Maybe I missed it, but I don't see any input here that limits willingness to help to "moderating mods."

Several people at CC seem to have an (inaccurate) opinion that just because people may see a problem, and are willing to be vocal about that problem, that means those people do not wish to help. Sometimes pointing out a problem is one way to help, while these suggested focus groups are another.