[Abandoned] - Snowfight

[Evil DIMwit]

Why do you have an autodeploy on dogs if they can't attack anything?
Why have snowmen at all if they can't attack anything?
Is it really wise to have a map where the majority of territories can assault almost every other territory, where you have to go through 8 neutrals to collect a +2 bonus which also leaves you relatively defenseless (or 12 in Team 1's case)?

[cairnswk]

Why do you have an autodeploy on dogs if they can't attack anything?
Why have snowmen at all if they can't attack anything?
Is it really wise to have a map where the majority of territories can assault almost every other territory, where you have to go through 8 neutrals to collect a +2 bonus which also leaves you relatively defenseless (or 12 in Team 1's case)?

1. autodeploy on dogs - good point, that can be changed.
2. if the snowmen and dogs (4) provide extra bonus points for having them, then they could be fought over by various players/teams. Perhaps a higher bonus might be appropriate.
3. majority of territories....well isn't this what a snowfight is all about, being able to hit anyone in the field.
If you have other suggestions, then i'd like to hear them please.

[natty dread]

I also kinda worry about the freeness of this map - if you can assault anywhere from anywhere, it kinda defeats all the strategy and it just gets down to who has the best dice...

[cairnswk]

I also kinda worry about the freeness of this map - if you can assault anywhere from anywhere, it kinda defeats all the strategy and it just gets down to who has the best dice...

Well for goodness sake people, stsop being so negative and start coming up with something.
Everyone is "worried" about something.
So far you're giving me the impression that nobody wants this map.

I also really have to ask, what's wrong with a map that is a good old fashioned "dog-fight" ?
I really can't believe that everyone is going to win because of the dice.

[natty dread]

I don't know... it's just, if you can assault anywhere from anywhere, where's the strategy of positioning your troops right... how will you block eliminations in an assassin game or escalating game... I don't know, I could be wrong, what do I know...

And it's not that I wouldn't want this map. I'm just voicing my concerns about the gameplay.

As for solutions, how about creating some assault routes between the snowfighters, and giving them a bombard ability to a range of 2 or 3... so if snowfighter A is next to B and B is next to C, then A can assault B but not C, but A can bombard C... something like this would limit the openness of the map somewhat, but would still keep the feel of an all-out snowfight.

[sonicsteve]

Hi Mate,

I don't think it's a good idea to have a player called Wog, surprised no-one else in the UK has picked this up.

wikipedia definition:

Wog in the UK is usually regarded as a racially offensive slang word referring to a dark-skinned person from Africa or Asia. It can be applied to any darker-skinned people, but is particularly applied to Afro-Caribbeans, as well as immigrants from the Indian subcontinent. Use of the word is strongly discouraged in Britain, and most dictionaries refer to the word with the caution that it is derogatory and offensive

I personally find it an offensive term, though you obviously weren't aware of the connotations in the UK,

Cheers,

Sonic.

[cairnswk]

Hi Mate,

I don't think it's a good idea to have a player called Wog, surprised no-one else in the UK has picked this up.

wikipedia definition:

Wog in the UK is usually regarded as a racially offensive slang word referring to a dark-skinned person from Africa or Asia. It can be applied to any darker-skinned people, but is particularly applied to Afro-Caribbeans, as well as immigrants from the Indian subcontinent. Use of the word is strongly discouraged in Britain, and most dictionaries refer to the word with the caution that it is derogatory and offensive

I personally find it an offensive term, though you obviously weren't aware of the connotations in the UK,

Cheers,

Sonic.

Gees, sonicsteve, how glad i am being an old bugger who grew up in an age of not so strict polically correctness when one of my best school mates was called Wog. He was of italian decent and an absolutely charmiing chap about being called that too. In fact he prefered his nicname rather than his real name. His name is on the map because later in life he committed suicide.
Dibbles, Kars, Blimp, Brownie, Wog, Legend, Jules and Buster were all nicnames that my school friends of both sexes had, and we never had problems with these names.
Somehow the world has got into a big mess about names.
However, if anyone else thinks it needs to be replaced because of some wikipedia definition which i find totally out of whack anyways, then i will do so.
It was not meant to be applied to your reference nor to offend anyone in the UK, nor anywhere else.

[Industrial Helix]

The last thing this map needs is a load of dotted lines. I'm perfectly fine with the openness between the throwers.

But here's a suggestion. What if throwers had two territories: body and arm. Arm attacks body? I dunno if that would resolve any of the worries about the openess of the map, but its an idea.

[cairnswk]

I don't know... it's just, if you can assault anywhere from anywhere, where's the strategy of positioning your troops right... how will you block eliminations in an assassin game or escalating game... I don't know, I could be wrong, what do I know...

What do i know also! I would have thought that some of the strategy in an open game such as this would have revolved around where and how you build numbers of troops to counter assaults.

And it's not that I wouldn't want this map. I'm just voicing my concerns about the gameplay.

Yes i understand about this, but so much negativity leads to conculsions in mind....

As for solutions, how about creating some assault routes between the snowfighters, and giving them a bombard ability to a range of 2 or 3... so if snowfighter A is next to B and B is next to C, then A can assault B but not C, but A can bombard C... something like this would limit the openness of the map somewhat, but would still keep the feel of an all-out snowfight.

OK, thanks for offering something towards a solutiuon. Let me think on that and how to apply it.

[cairnswk]

.....
But here's a suggestion. What if throwers had two territories: body and arm. Arm attacks body? I dunno if that would resolve any of the worries about the openess of the map, but its an idea.

And thanks also IH for offering something towards a solution.
Can you elaborate on that idea a little more. You realise that would almost double the map region numbers, but i'd like to hear more. What attacks the arm for instance, if arm attacks body?

[cairnswk]

The last thing this map needs is a load of dotted lines. I'm perfectly fine with the openness between the throwers....

Totally agree. it would spoil the whole aesthetics.

[cairnswk]

Well, i look at the suggestions above for gameplay, and couldn't envisage extra "body" sections, and thought that this would be a good compromise between the two, whilst retaining some form of the original continent style assaults. It moves away from the total everyone can assault everyone else, but....
So see if you can understand it from the legend, and obviously it will need tweaking if successfully accepted.

[Victor Sullivan]

Oh and if there is anyone out there who would like to submit something like a dog or a face to get this map ready for Chirstmas, then please do so, and i'll add your name to the map.

Hey I got an entry
[bigimg]http://i1025.photobucket.com/albums/y311/Victor_Sullivan/Conquer%20Club/Conquer%20Club%20Misc/Slide1-1.jpg[/bigimg]
I know it's blown up real big, but whatevs. I took the cartoony route with the Orange Team Hope you like my submission, cairns!

-Sully

[Evil DIMwit]

Maybe I'd feel more secure if each team had a defensive wall, maybe a killer neutral 2-4 that you'd have to get through to hit those team's throwers. That way you can reduce the neutral on throwers, letting players get the bonus faster without compromising security.
However, this may just make it too easy to devolve into a stacking game (though I think it's already that way).

[Industrial Helix]

.....
But here's a suggestion. What if throwers had two territories: body and arm. Arm attacks body? I dunno if that would resolve any of the worries about the openess of the map, but its an idea.

And thanks also IH for offering something towards a solution.
Can you elaborate on that idea a little more. You realise that would almost double the map region numbers, but i'd like to hear more. What attacks the arm for instance, if arm attacks body?

Arm and body of the same thrower border each other, snowball maker borders both throwers bodies. Arm attacks all other throwers bodies.

[Victor Sullivan]

.....
But here's a suggestion. What if throwers had two territories: body and arm. Arm attacks body? I dunno if that would resolve any of the worries about the openess of the map, but its an idea.

And thanks also IH for offering something towards a solution.
Can you elaborate on that idea a little more. You realise that would almost double the map region numbers, but i'd like to hear more. What attacks the arm for instance, if arm attacks body?

Arm and body of the same thrower border each other, snowball maker borders both throwers bodies. Arm attacks all other throwers bodies.

A bit weird, but seems like would work. Not a bad idea...

[sonicsteve]

Gees, sonicsteve, how glad i am being an old bugger who grew up in an age of not so strict polically correctness when one of my best school mates was called Wog. He was of italian decent and an absolutely charmiing chap about being called that too. In fact he prefered his nicname rather than his real name. His name is on the map because later in life he committed suicide.
Dibbles, Kars, Blimp, Brownie, Wog, Legend, Jules and Buster were all nicnames that my school friends of both sexes had, and we never had problems with these names.
Somehow the world has got into a big mess about names.
However, if anyone else thinks it needs to be replaced because of some wikipedia definition which i find totally out of whack anyways, then i will do so.
It was not meant to be applied to your reference nor to offend anyone in the UK, nor anywhere else.

Thanks for changing it, and sorry to mess up a tribute to your friend.

If you'd lived in the UK in the 70s and 80s, you would probably find the defintion very accurate, and not at all 'out of whack'.

I'm an old bugger myself, and it's a word I hadn't heard in 20 years or more, but last time I heard, "Oi, Wog" it was basically shorthand for "Hey, you black bastard (and your mate - I was his mate), we're gonna give you both a good kicking", and immediately followed by the rumble of boots in our direction.

People may think political correctness has gone mad, but personally I'd rather live in a World without pejorative language, which racists use to depersonalise their violent behaviour.

Anyway - Thanks for changing it!

sonic

[squishyg]

yay, its like the snowball fight on Wii Fit, except I don't have to exercise!

[cairnswk]

Well, i look at the suggestions above for gameplay, and couldn't envisage extra "body" sections, and thought that this would be a good compromise between the two, whilst retaining some form of the original continent style assaults. It moves away from the total everyone can assault everyone else, but....
So see if you can understand it from the legend, and obviously it will need tweaking if successfully accepted.

[AndyDufresne]

When I first saw this idea, without looking into the map, I liked the idea. But I can't say I'm a fan of the current game play or the graphics (or where the graphics seem to be going), unfortunately.


--Andy

[cairnswk]

When I first saw this idea, without looking into the map, I liked the idea. But I can't say I'm a fan of the current game play or the graphics (or where the graphics seem to be going), unfortunately.


--Andy

Anyways, suggestions please.

[Industrial Helix]

I don't like the new set up... I mean, unless you have BOB it is going to be a pain in the butt to look at your team, look at the legend, figure out who you can attack. Hmm.. after writing it out like that it makes me sound like a lazy player. But really, if I looked at this current set up I'd say eff this and playa different map.

Suggestion: revert to the free for all set up. I liked it's openess and I think it will be successful.

I'm not sure how it would play out, but I'm pretty confident that it won't be up to the luck of the dice. I mean, everyone is going to capture their team first thing. Then it's a waiting game, as most games are. You wait for your opening by gauging what the other players are doing and then strike.

The dogs and the snowmen... they could go in my opinion. I just don't see how they really give anything to game other than an extra man or two for the players starting near them.

As for the graphics... the background looks great but the people are pretty weak. Something for the graphics workshop though.

[cairnswk]

Given the reaction of the last replies, prehaps this needs to be thrown open to a Vote Decision. as much as i hate to do it.

[natty dread]

How about, every snowfighter assaults every snowfighter in the adjacent team?

ie. each member of T1 assaults each member of T5 and T4 and so on.

[cairnswk]

How about, every snowfighter assaults every snowfighter in the adjacent team?

ie. each member of T1 assaults each member of T5 and T4 and so on.

Isn't that what is one the map almost now?