Conquer Club

jay_a2j wrote:Maybe I phrased that wrong. The Bush admin. knew that Saddam had no WMD's before the invasion. According to this guy, the CIA made up intelligence so Bush could go to war. If any of this stuff I hear has any merit, the Bush admin. is in deep ca-ca.

No they didn't, Jay!! They acted on the same intelligence as the Clinton administration.

According to what guy?

You're saying in one sentence that Bush knew and then in the next sentence that the CIA faked it so he would go to war, which would mean that he didn't know and was deceived!

Come on, Jay!

silvanricky wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Maybe I phrased that wrong. The Bush admin. knew that Saddam had no WMD's before the invasion. According to this guy, the CIA made up intelligence so Bush could go to war. If any of this stuff I hear has any merit, the Bush admin. is in deep ca-ca.

No they didn't, Jay!! They acted on the same intelligence as the Clinton administration.

According to what guy?

You're saying in one sentence that Bush knew and then in the next sentence that the CIA faked it so he would go to war, which would mean that he didn't know and was deceived!

Come on, Jay!

I think he's saying the Bush administration and CIA were in on it together.

There is a problem with the train of thought silvan. Though you are correct that bush did recieve a lot of intelligence that was not quite up to par. The only part i have a problem with really is the notion that is simply ideologies of hatred that caused 9/11 or islamic fundamentalism.

If people decide to believe people anti-american sentiment is growing because of who we are and not because of what we do, then we will be ill equipped to ever win the mislabeled war on terror.

Frigidus wrote:I think he's saying the Bush administration and CIA were in on it together.

Ok but that still doesn't explain how Clinton, Gore, and the Democrats were all saying the same thing back in the 90's. Was the CIA able to get to them too? I know that's not what you're saying but I'm just throwing that out there as a point in general towards people who said Bush lied.

got tonkaed wrote:There is a problem with the train of thought silvan. Though you are correct that bush did recieve a lot of intelligence that was not quite up to par. The only part i have a problem with really is the notion that is simply ideologies of hatred that caused 9/11 or islamic fundamentalism.

If people decide to believe people anti-american sentiment is growing because of who we are and not because of what we do, then we will be ill equipped to ever win the mislabeled war on terror.

Obviously that's not the entire story, yes. I was just showing that to Jay because it's the most widely out-of-context quote used by people who say the administration was trying to say that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.

Well the problem is....eventually they did.

A brief (and haphazardly done) timeline (since im at work) if you will

Originally Bush doesnt want to go to war with Iraq, things are relatively stable and the push for transformational diplomacy doesnt really have much sway.

September 11th comes and there is still not a whole lot of a connection, though it is hinted at in some quarters.

We begin to recieve intelligence that claims Iraq was either connected to, supporting our enemies or was capable of WMD supply to terrorists (and all of the above).

We then hear a campaign of sorts from those who would wish us to deal with Iraq claiming we are in a common struggle against terror which cements the connection in the mind of many people.

It is at this point that you start to hear some statements that are taken out of context, and others which are not which claim of some connection between Iraq and 9-11 in part to help put together a case for war with Iraq.

Later everyone realizes it was silly and recants, but clearly by then it didnt matter much.

silvanricky wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Maybe I phrased that wrong. The Bush admin. knew that Saddam had no WMD's before the invasion. According to this guy, the CIA made up intelligence so Bush could go to war. If any of this stuff I hear has any merit, the Bush admin. is in deep ca-ca.

No they didn't, Jay!! They acted on the same intelligence as the Clinton administration.

According to what guy?

You're saying in one sentence that Bush knew and then in the next sentence that the CIA faked it so he would go to war, which would mean that he didn't know and was deceived!

Come on, Jay!

The White House told the CIA to fabricate the evidence.

ptlowe wrote:Yes, Iraq was a tough situation but Bush did what he had to to take care of countries who are the problem in this world. I just hope he has the guts to take out the rest of the middle east

While I think it's really brave that you are admitting your problem in a public forum, I feel that I must tell you that 'Retards Anonymous' are further down the hall.

I knew something was odd about this thread since it was started by ptlowe.... IN 2006!

mandalorian2298 wrote:

ptlowe wrote:Yes, Iraq was a tough situation but Bush did what he had to to take care of countries who are the problem in this world. I just hope he has the guts to take out the rest of the middle east

While I think it's really brave that you are admitting your problem in a public forum, I feel that I must tell you that 'Retards Anonymous' are further down the hall.

A rarity, but I agree!

happy2seeyou wrote:I knew something was odd about this thread since it was started by ptlowe.... IN 2006!

It was revived by someone who has now been "unpersoned".

jay_a2j wrote:

mandalorian2298 wrote:

ptlowe wrote:Yes, Iraq was a tough situation but Bush did what he had to to take care of countries who are the problem in this world. I just hope he has the guts to take out the rest of the middle east

While I think it's really brave that you are admitting your problem in a public forum, I feel that I must tell you that 'Retards Anonymous' are further down the hall.

A rarity, but I agree!

You take that back Jay!

Just kidding.

On second though, our being in agreement might rip the fabric of the space-time continuum.

Quick, take it back Jay!

jay_a2j wrote:The White House told the CIA to fabricate the evidence.

.........so that they would one day get caught and have their credibility questioned!! Come on, Jay.

You're still not addressing the fact that Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and other Democrats also claimed the Hussein had WMD's. This was all before George W. Bush was in the White House. Was Bush secretly controlling Clinton & Gore through the CIA? Perhaps Clinton was just a "puppet" for 8 years at the bidding of a group of Bush bankers. They got bad intelligence and acted on it, thinking it was legit.

silvanricky wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:The White House told the CIA to fabricate the evidence.

.........so that they would one day get caught and have their credibility questioned!! Come on, Jay.

You're still not addressing the fact that Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and other Democrats also claimed the Hussein had WMD's. This was all before George W. Bush was in the White House. Was Bush secretly controlling Clinton & Gore through the CIA? Perhaps Clinton was just a "puppet" for 8 years at the bidding of a group of Bush bankers. They got bad intelligence and acted on it, thinking it was legit.

There are no wmd's. There never were any wmd's. Saddam was interviewed before his untimely death and stated that he did not have any wmd's but could not let the world know this. (especially Iran) As it was a deterrent for an attack by Iran.This was why he kicked out the inspectors. I don't think a man who knows he's about to die is gonna lie and say he didn't have them when he did.

jay_a2j wrote:Saddam was interviewed before his untimely death and stated that he did not have any wmd's but could not let the world know this. (especially Iran) As it was a deterrent for an attack by Iran.This was why he kicked out the inspectors. I don't think a man who knows he's about to die is gonna lie and say he didn't have them when he did.

You still haven't answered the question about why Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and other Democrats who are Bush's political opponents all claimed that Hussein had them. Are you going to answer this or not?

jay_a2j wrote:There never were any wmd's.

Bullshit. If there were never any WMD's then he wouldn't have been ordered to destroy them and there wouldn't have been the need for weapons inspectors from the United Nations to verify their destruction.

silvanricky wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Saddam was interviewed before his untimely death and stated that he did not have any wmd's but could not let the world know this. (especially Iran) As it was a deterrent for an attack by Iran.This was why he kicked out the inspectors. I don't think a man who knows he's about to die is gonna lie and say he didn't have them when he did.

You still haven't answered the question about why Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and other Democrats who are Bush's political opponents all claimed that Hussein had them. Are you going to answer this or not?

jay_a2j wrote:There never were any wmd's.

Bullshit. If there were never any WMD's then he wouldn't have been ordered to destroy them and there wouldn't have been the need for weapons inspectors from the United Nations.

I think it was a set up. A plan for whoever was elected. That all these people say there was a threat....yet nothing was found!



what's funny is I used to quote those very same people debating FOR the Iraq war. Amazing what you can see if you only open your eyes!

So basically you're not going to answer the question, ok

Pedronicus wrote:Bush can't tie his own shoe laces.

Thais y he wears those fancy slip on black dress shoes

silvanricky wrote:So basically you're not going to answer the question, ok

So basically, I did.

GrimReaper. wrote:

Pedronicus wrote:Bush can't tie his own shoe laces.

Thais y he wears those fancy slip on black dress shoes

[As Borat] They're very nice.

ptlowe wrote:Yes, Iraq was a tough situation but Bush did what he had to to take care of countries who are the problem in this world. I just hope he has the guts to take out the rest of the middle east

Yes, he did a fine job. Just look around at how wonderful things are.

Osama Bin Laden! Mission Accomplished!

"Vote McCain...four more years of the same!"

Have any of you seen the Wide Angle feature that aired last night on PBS? This is a must see for anyone who thinks they can talk about the destabilization of Iraq. http://www.pbs.org/wnet/wideangle/episodes/iraqi-exodus/introduction/811/

As I watched, I thought about what happened in New Orleans after the middle class, i.e., people who had the ability to leave, got the hell out of dodge, did so in anticipation of Hurricane Katrina. And those thugs and looters were home grown American citizens. Why would we expect anything less from a place like Iraq when the plan for rebuilding does not make it worth while for anyone who has a choice to stay in the country, even if leaving means the type of struggle that is portrayed in this program.

And in the long run, barring massive resettlement, this situation will create even more distrust of foreign involvement in the region, if we do ultimately prevent an all out Iraqi civil war.