Conquer Club

waauw wrote:

mrswdk wrote:That would be true... if there was a war between China and the Philippines. But there is not, and will not be.

Which is an issue several asia-pacific nations genuinely fear for.

They need to put down the crack pipe.

waauw wrote:

mrswdk wrote:They want to have a free and open discussion without other parties butting in to distort talks. If the matter at hand is the Scarborough Shoal, why should Indonesia, America or anyone else be involved? The Scarborough Shoal is an issue for China and the Philippines to settle between themselves.

You know full well it's about more than merely Scarborough Shoal. The entire South-China sea is disputed. Imagine the Philippines and China do get to an agreement? What value would that have? Very little as six different countries demand souvereignity over the Spratly islands for instance. This is why multilateral negotiations are needed. Bilateral negotiations are useless. Unfortunately China has repeatedly refused any such negotiations, only willing to deal with ASEAN countries seperately. China doesn't even want to cooperate on negotiating a global charter for disputed seas within the UN.

Well yeah, there are a variety of different disputes in the region. I was merely using the Scarborough Shoal as an example of one, and the Scarborough Shoal is only disputed by China and the Philippines (as far as I'm aware).

waauw wrote:

mrswdk wrote:China's investment in its military is growing at a proportional rate to the growth of its GDP in general. I don't see what reason there is for anyone else in the region to start wailing and tearing out their hair.

Of course you don't see a reason. You didn't even notice there was an arms race going on.

You're going to have to provide better evidence of a Chinese 'arms race' than a rising military budget. Generally when a country's economy grows rapidly, this has the knock-on effect of causing all the government budgets to grow rapidly as well.

waauw wrote:

mrswdk wrote:Ha. Ha. So the reason countries like the Philippines are looking for American help is in case of some kind of Chinese invasion? Purlease.

And yet multiple nations fear as such. There is a reason more than one country fears chinese aggressiveness. Even US-hating country Vietnam is now seeking closer relations with the US due to China.

See earlier. Multiple countries need to take a reality check.

mrswdk wrote:See earlier. Multiple countries need to take a reality check.

--Andy

mrswdk wrote:China worshipping? The OP is about the actions of America (as well as a couple of other nations). It became about China when all the butthurt Westerners got defensive and decided to ignore all the points the article in OP is making and instead just point fingers at China instead.

The points in the OP are based on propaganda lies, like

OP wrote:In recent decades, several countries surrounding the region have been eroding Chinese territory and violating China's economic rights and interests in the region.

It's really hard to see how anyone can type lies like that and not burst into giggles. Then again, we don't know how long it took the writer to put together. Maybe he did have to pause after every line to go take a laughing break. Maybe he poured some cold water on his head to be able to keep it together.

China has been bullying smaller nations like the Phillipines and Vietnam, invading island groups like the Spratly Islands and relying on the fact that everyone is too scared to escalate matters into an actual shooting war. There is no justification to invading islands 600 miles from your coast. It's simply a matter of being the neigbourhood bully, and taking what you can because you know the other kids are smaller than you are.

Of course the smaller nations will ask outsiders for help. What else can they do? They either get on their knees and give you what you want, or they get their own counter-bully from somewhere else. The U.S. is overstretched, trying to control things in a dozen different regions of the world, so of course it hopes that Asia will get its act together and form a grand alliance of all the Asian nations to control Chinese expansionism before it's too late. Personally, I suspect it's already too late, that this is just grasping at straws, but that's another issue entirely.

Dukasaur wrote:There is no justification to invading islands 600 miles from your coast.

International law allows countries such as the US, UK and France to claim sovereignty over regions which are much further than 600 miles from their mainlands and are in much closer proximity to other nations. America and Japan routinely assert that Japan has sovereign control over the Diaoyu Islands, which are way, way closer to China than they are to Japan. The UK has sovereignty over islands that are just off the coast of Argentina, a country at the bottom of South America. France still legally claims part of South America is a part of France. Under international law, there are a whole host of reasons it is deemed acceptable not just to take aggressive action against a distant sovereign nation but also to occupy territories hundreds, even thousands, of miles from your mainland. So, your use of the word 'invade' is spurious at best given that we are talking about Chinese personnel landing in areas that can completely justifiably be called Chinese territories.

The truth is, China used to be the king of everywhere in this part of the world. Then the Great Powers turned up, repeatedly invaded China, forced it into a series of humiliating 'unequal treaties' and stripped it of everything it had. Pretty much all the national borders in South East Asia were drawn up by European colonial powers. They mean nothing. They have nothing do to with actual historical power balances and territorial claims. They are based on the whims of 19th century invaders who decided to take the order of this part of the world and replace it with something that suited them better (much as they also did in the MIddle East, Indian Subcontinent and Africa).

The laughable propaganda is assertions that since China had its sovereignty over an area taken away by imperial powers in the 19th century, China therefore has no legal right to reclaim that land today. Then again, I'm not surprised to hear such logic coming from someone whose entire country was built upon Europeans invading and stealing land from the indigenous peoples.

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:There is no justification to invading islands 600 miles from your coast.

International law allows countries such as the US, UK and France to claim sovereignty over regions which are much further than 600 miles from their mainlands and are in much closer proximity to other nations. America and Japan routinely assert that Japan has sovereign control over the Diaoyu Islands, which are way, way closer to China than they are to Japan. The UK has sovereignty over islands that are just off the coast of Argentina, a country at the bottom of South America. France still legally claims part of South America is a part of France. Under international law, there are a whole host of reasons it is deemed acceptable not just to take aggressive action against a distant sovereign nation but also to occupy territories hundreds, even thousands, of miles from your mainland. So, your use of the word 'invade' is spurious at best given that we are talking about Chinese personnel landing in areas that can completely justifiably be called Chinese territories.

The truth is, China used to be the king of everywhere in this part of the world. Then the Great Powers turned up, repeatedly invaded China, forced it into a series of humiliating 'unequal treaties' and stripped it of everything it had. Pretty much all the national borders in South East Asia were drawn up by European colonial powers. They mean nothing. They have nothing do to with actual historical power balances and territorial claims. They are based on the whims of 19th century invaders who decided to take the order of this part of the world and replace it with something that suited them better (much as they also did in the MIddle East, Indian Subcontinent and Africa).

The laughable propaganda is assertions that since China had its sovereignty over an area taken away by imperial powers in the 19th century, China therefore has no legal right to reclaim that land today. Then again, I'm not surprised to hear such logic coming from someone whose entire country was built upon Europeans invading and stealing land from the indigenous peoples.

--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:

mrswdk wrote:

Dukasaur wrote:There is no justification to invading islands 600 miles from your coast.

International law allows countries such as the US, UK and France to claim sovereignty over regions which are much further than 600 miles from their mainlands and are in much closer proximity to other nations. America and Japan routinely assert that Japan has sovereign control over the Diaoyu Islands, which are way, way closer to China than they are to Japan. The UK has sovereignty over islands that are just off the coast of Argentina, a country at the bottom of South America. France still legally claims part of South America is a part of France. Under international law, there are a whole host of reasons it is deemed acceptable not just to take aggressive action against a distant sovereign nation but also to occupy territories hundreds, even thousands, of miles from your mainland. So, your use of the word 'invade' is spurious at best given that we are talking about Chinese personnel landing in areas that can completely justifiably be called Chinese territories.

The truth is, China used to be the king of everywhere in this part of the world. Then the Great Powers turned up, repeatedly invaded China, forced it into a series of humiliating 'unequal treaties' and stripped it of everything it had. Pretty much all the national borders in South East Asia were drawn up by European colonial powers. They mean nothing. They have nothing do to with actual historical power balances and territorial claims. They are based on the whims of 19th century invaders who decided to take the order of this part of the world and replace it with something that suited them better (much as they also did in the MIddle East, Indian Subcontinent and Africa).

The laughable propaganda is assertions that since China had its sovereignty over an area taken away by imperial powers in the 19th century, China therefore has no legal right to reclaim that land today. Then again, I'm not surprised to hear such logic coming from someone whose entire country was built upon Europeans invading and stealing land from the indigenous peoples.

--Andy

Good that you asked Monkey Man... But unless you convince Russia to be on your side(not gonna happen ) you can continue to dream your dreams that US is in a position to chase away China from tiny coral reefs.

GoranZ wrote:Good that you asked Monkey Man... But unless you convince Russia to be on your side(not gonna happen ) you can continue to dream your dreams that US is in a position to chase away China from tiny coral reefs.

China doesn't even want to be on your side. Mrswdk has been pretty clear that Russia's aggressive flirtations have an air of desperation, and China isn't fond of desperateness.


--Andy

AndyDufresne wrote:

GoranZ wrote:Good that you asked Monkey Man... But unless you convince Russia to be on your side(not gonna happen ) you can continue to dream your dreams that US is in a position to chase away China from tiny coral reefs.

China doesn't even want to be on your side. Mrswdk has been pretty clear that Russia's aggressive flirtations have an air of desperation, and China isn't fond of desperateness.


--Andy

Who cares what mrswdk wants , and who is asking for her

But regardless what you say or what she wants both Russia and China are saying "f*ck you" to US... So f*ck you monkey man.

GoranZ wrote:

AndyDufresne wrote:

GoranZ wrote:Good that you asked Monkey Man... But unless you convince Russia to be on your side(not gonna happen ) you can continue to dream your dreams that US is in a position to chase away China from tiny coral reefs.

China doesn't even want to be on your side. Mrswdk has been pretty clear that Russia's aggressive flirtations have an air of desperation, and China isn't fond of desperateness.


--Andy

Who cares what mrswdk wants , and who is asking for her

But regardless what you say or what she wants both Russia and China are saying "f*ck you" to US... So f*ck you monkey man.

You've certainly got the hang of Russian diplomacy.

Here is an example of Goranz's diplomacy skills.




--Andy

To me that just looks like someone so honor bound in doing the right thing in regards to diplomacy that they are turning around to ensure a smoother negotiation on a finely tuned detail of a very important accord.

Or at least that's what I got from the Gif.

Relevant picture:



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(What is it with Cracked and the number 5?)

mrswdk wrote:You've certainly got the hang of Russian diplomacy.

China was once thorn by Western Imperialist Powers... Stick with the Russians if you dont like the same thing to happen again

AndyDufresne wrote:Here is an example of Goranz's diplomacy skills.




--Andy

Wrong race, you show similarities to him tho


And here is example of Andy while he is refreshing

GoranZ wrote:

mrswdk wrote:You've certainly got the hang of Russian diplomacy.

China was once thorn by Western Imperialist Powers... Stick with the Russians if you dont like the same thing to happen again

I think China would be able to stand on their own, Goranz.





--Andy

GoranZ wrote:

mrswdk wrote:You've certainly got the hang of Russian diplomacy.

China was once thorn by Western Imperialist Powers... Stick with the Russians if you dont like the same thing to happen again

The imperial nations who encroached on China were not exclusively Western. There was also Japan... and Russia.

AndyDufresne wrote:

GoranZ wrote:

mrswdk wrote:You've certainly got the hang of Russian diplomacy.

China was once thorn by Western Imperialist Powers... Stick with the Russians if you dont like the same thing to happen again

I think China would be able to stand on their own, Goranz.





--Andy

Typical American brainless thinking, Makro(Fat) is good, and Micro(Skiny) is bad

Just for your info... Russia and China will perform joined military drills in the Mediterranean Sea this month.
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/05/01/world ... .html?_r=0

I presume if US plans for similar drills in South China Sea we will see joined response of the cost of California
Looks like the fat monkey will get extra sweat soon

Goranz, it's okay you don't understand the .gif meanings, you haven't been able to the whole time.

Here is me trying to save you from yourself:






--Andy

Oh no. Here we go...

http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/what-i ... 23?ref=yfp

Now US is poking China
https://www.rt.com/news/318738-china-is ... tralia-us/

China's claims to the Paracel and Spratly Islands are perfectly valid, albeit disputed by some of the region's more recently founded states.

Quite why the US thinks it has any business taking sides in territorial disputes on the other side of the world is beyond me.

mrswdk wrote:China's claims to the Paracel and Spratly Islands are perfectly valid, albeit disputed by some of the region's more recently founded states.

Quite why the US thinks it has any business taking sides in territorial disputes on the other side of the world is beyond me.

From my point of view... To force China to retreat its Aircraft Carrier from Mediterranean Sea, and thus stop the plans of joined Ruso-Chinese operation in Syria. I presume we all know how decisive effect would Chinese attacks have in Syria atm

I was talking about the South China Sea disputes in your last article.

Highly doubt the US is going to bother trying to come up with a reason why the Chinese should not be in the Mediterranean, especially when it's still not even confirmed that they are.

mrswdk wrote:I was talking about the South China Sea disputes in your last article.

Highly doubt the US is going to bother trying to come up with a reason why the Chinese should not be in the Mediterranean, especially when it's still not even confirmed that they are.

That is their plan... Bring you Carrier here so it wont make problems elsewhere

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/china-h ... -to-syria/

But...
http://www.hngn.com/articles/138357/201 ... -bring.htm

Hate to burst your bubble but China's carrier isn't yet combat operational, and China is currently more concerned with the South China Sea, where the US is busy distracting creating a diversion in order to try and provide some breathing room for their Syrian allies.

mrswdk wrote:China's claims to the Paracel and Spratly Islands are perfectly valid, albeit disputed by some of the region's more recently founded states.

--Andy