Conquer Club

I think one of the reasons we have so many problems with drinking for teenagers is because it's such a taboo thing to do. Because all these kids think that it is so cool and new and whatever they drink to excess. In Europe and other countries kids are around alcohol all their lives, usually just the occasional beer from their parents or wine with meals or whatever. I agree that it should be 18...

Fo Sho wrote:I think one of the reasons we have so many problems with drinking for teenagers is because it's such a taboo thing to do. Because all these kids think that it is so cool and new and whatever they drink to excess. In Europe and other countries kids are around alcohol all their lives, usually just the occasional beer from their parents or wine with meals or whatever. I agree that it should be 18...

FINIALLY! someone who gets it! duh! It should be 18, but no, it is harmful to your brain. So is snowboarding if you whack your noggin on a tree! If we start banning things solely on safety, we'd all die of BOREDOM!

Fo Sho wrote:I think one of the reasons we have so many problems with drinking for teenagers is because it's such a taboo thing to do. Because all these kids think that it is so cool and new and whatever they drink to excess. In Europe and other countries kids are around alcohol all their lives, usually just the occasional beer from their parents or wine with meals or whatever. I agree that it should be 18...

BINGO

It's all about the forbidden fruit. You're right, in Europe, there isn't such a taboo on drinking, so they don't have as much of a problem.
In Germany (any Germans please correct me if I'm wrong) you can drink around 16, but you have to wait until you're 20 or 21 to get your driver's license, AND it costs lots of $$ to obtain. (someone told me over $1,000, but I'm really not sure).
This puts emphasis on being a responsible driver and takes away from the taboo of underage drinking.

I'd like to hear from some Europeans if what I've heard is correct.

Legal age should be lowered to 18 just because of how many 18-20 year olds drink during college. My first year of college, several underage people got busted for drinking, but the university didn't do anything to discourage it; most people just got put on probation if they did something stupid and got caught. If the law isn't even being enforced, they may as well lower the legal age and focus on stopping high school drinking.

Jamie wrote:21 is not some random number picked by law makers. 21 is the age the human brain finishes its growth cycle, and is done developing. Alcohol is unsafe to drink before this takes place, as it inhibits development of the brain, if the brain isn't already done doing so. The drinking age in the US will NEVER be lowered, unless new medical research proves a new theory, or the US congress disbands the FDA.

Bullshit. This sounds like the "Reefer Madness" type propaganda told at church youth group meetings. Please post links to your medical assertion of brain development ceasing at 21 and alcohol being unsafe to those 18-21. More invented facts.

Are you saying that the rest of the world is brain damaged due to their 18 year old (or less) drinking age?

Backglass wrote:Are you saying that the rest of the world is brain damaged due to their 18 year old (or less) drinking age?

I agree. The idea that your brain stops developing at 21 is pretty ridiculous.

Backglass wrote:

Jamie wrote:21 is not some random number picked by law makers. 21 is the age the human brain finishes its growth cycle, and is done developing. Alcohol is unsafe to drink before this takes place, as it inhibits development of the brain, if the brain isn't already done doing so. The drinking age in the US will NEVER be lowered, unless new medical research proves a new theory, or the US congress disbands the FDA.

Bullshit. This sounds like the "Reefer Madness" type propaganda told at church youth group meetings. Please post links to your medical assertion of brain development ceasing at 21 and alcohol being unsafe to those 18-21. More invented facts.

Are you saying that the rest of the world is brain damaged due to their 18 year old (or less) drinking age?

"Alcohol is very, very bad. For Children. But when you turn 21, it becomes very, very good." - Leela, Futurama

I offer a compromise:

1. Let's lower the drinking age to 18.

2. Let's raise the voting age to 25.

luns101 wrote:I offer a compromise:

1. Let's lower the drinking age to 18.

2. Let's raise the voting age to 25.

Only if we institute mandatory driver's tests for everyone who reaches the age of senior citizenship (65 in the US).

vtmarik wrote:

luns101 wrote:I offer a compromise:

1. Let's lower the drinking age to 18.

2. Let's raise the voting age to 25.

Only if we institute mandatory driver's tests for everyone who reaches the age of senior citizenship (65 in the US).

you stole that from me

s.xkitten wrote:

vtmarik wrote:

luns101 wrote:I offer a compromise:

1. Let's lower the drinking age to 18.

2. Let's raise the voting age to 25.

Only if we institute mandatory driver's tests for everyone who reaches the age of senior citizenship (65 in the US).

you stole that from me

Great minds think alike, I've been saying that for going on 12 years now.

vtmarik wrote:

luns101 wrote:I offer a compromise:

1. Let's lower the drinking age to 18.

2. Let's raise the voting age to 25.

Only if we institute mandatory driver's tests for everyone who reaches the age of senior citizenship (65 in the US).

The only sour point, the 25 voting age. 21 makes a lot more sence. Other than that, all good.

Jenos Ridan wrote:The only sour point, the 25 voting age. 21 makes a lot more sence. Other than that, all good.

Does it? Really?

How does it make any more sense that 25, or 18, or 12?

Jenos Ridan wrote:

vtmarik wrote:

luns101 wrote:I offer a compromise:

1. Let's lower the drinking age to 18.

2. Let's raise the voting age to 25.

The only sour point, the 25 voting age. 21 makes a lot more sence. Other than that, all good.

I was half-joking when I wrote that. The general point I was making is that even at 18 years of age, people think they are more mature than they actually are. Almost all of us think that way around age 18.

Generally, when people get 3 more years of life experience under their belts they tend to think and act a little differently, which might affect the way they vote. 21 sounds like a good age to allow voting. A friend of mine told me that he found stats to prove that the voting block of 18 -21 yrs of age has gone down in every presidential election since the passage of the 26th amendment. I'll have to look into it. Anyone else heard that as well?

I think 21 is a good age to allow legal drinking BTW. People should wait until they are 30 to decide whether or not they should become a Cubs fan, just so they know what they are really getting themselves into.

luns101 wrote:The general point I was making is that even at 18 years of age, people think they are more mature than they actually are. Almost all of us think that way around age 18.

Generally, when people get 3 more years of life experience under their belts they tend to think and act a little differently, which might affect the way they vote. 21 sounds like a good age to allow voting.

I tend to agree with you luns, but I believe there should be one age for everything. Why are you an adult for something, and not for others? Whatever that legal age is, it should be the same for joining the military, driving, drinking, going to prison as opposed to "juvi", etc. If your an adult...your an adult.

I do think however that it should be mandatory to wait until 30 to get married or have children.

Backglass wrote:

luns101 wrote:The general point I was making is that even at 18 years of age, people think they are more mature than they actually are. Almost all of us think that way around age 18.

Generally, when people get 3 more years of life experience under their belts they tend to think and act a little differently, which might affect the way they vote. 21 sounds like a good age to allow voting.

I tend to agree with you luns, but I believe there should be one age for everything. Why are you an adult for something, and not for others? Whatever that legal age is, it should be the same for joining the military, driving, drinking, going to prison as opposed to "juvi", etc. If your an adult...your an adult.

I do think however that it should be mandatory to wait until 30 to get married or have children.

HERE HERE!

i agree if your a citzen you should have the rights of other citzens. the age should (whether right or wrong) 18. because you need to think about the people who wont abuse. it should be fair

luns101 wrote:
[...] The general point I was making is that even at 18 years of age, people think they are more mature than they actually are. Almost all of us think that way around age 18.

Generally, when people get 3 more years of life experience under their belts they tend to think and act a little differently, which might affect the way they vote. 21 sounds like a good age to allow voting. A friend of mine told me that he found stats to prove that the voting block of 18 -21 yrs of age has gone down in every presidential election since the passage of the 26th amendment. I'll have to look into it. Anyone else heard that as well?

I firmly believe people should be allowed to vote from 16 years old. At this age people are mature enough to know their own mind (in law). Though they might not have as much "life experience" as older people, they should have a say in how society is governed because at this age they are beginning to contribute to society. People at this age are either leaving school to enter the workforce or choosing to study further, either way their voice should be heard as government policies will directly effect them.
I understand your argument about voter apathy in the younger vote but I believe the voting turnout percentage would increase if younger people felt more included in the political process. I can't speak for the US, but in the UK all the major political parties fight over the "grey" vote by introducing many policies focused on pensioners while few (if any) policies are directed towards the 16-25 year olds. This is because historically the pensioners have a high voter turn out, while the 18-25 year old vote has a low turn out. What’s the point of making eye-catching policies focused towards people who aren’t going to vote for your party anyway?
If people were included in politics at school age - not just taught about it - they would feel more empowered to demand policies focused towards their needs and if voting percentages did rise the politicians would be forced to create more youth friendly policies.
If you want a current example of how the youth vote can be vitalised you need only look towards the French Presidential election of a few days ago. There was an 85% turn out at the first stage. With massive numbers of first time voters and young people registering and turning out. This is partly due to the policies that have/or are threatening to be implemented that will effect school leavers and people starting employment for the first time (along with the desire from the left to avoid the repeat of the Le Pen fiasco).
At present the 18-25 apathy vote will begin to turn into a 25-40 apathy vote over time - we must do more to strengthen or democratic process or else it becomes increasingly pointless.

Given how I was at 16, I wouldn't let them vote! either 18 or 21 for ALL citizen's rights, that means drinking, driving, voting, enlisting/drafting, property/gun ownership/use and legal definition of adulthood. It is in that age group that people "pull their sh!t together", as my dad put it. One of a few things I agree with him on.

got tonkaed wrote:although sobriety works for you sir, many would actually like to drink every now and then (for some maybe its actually every single now and then)

I'm with you

Anyway, the drinking age here was 20 right up until 1999. Then they lowered it to 18. I had a bastard of a time trying to get into pubs and clubs as an 18 year old. Why couldn't the age have been lowered before I turned 20?? Bastards, I tell ya

Numia Kereru wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:although sobriety works for you sir, many would actually like to drink every now and then (for some maybe its actually every single now and then)

I'm with you

Anyway, the drinking age here was 20 right up until 1999. Then they lowered it to 18. I had a bastard of a time trying to get into pubs and clubs as an 18 year old. Why couldn't the age have been lowered before I turned 20?? Bastards, I tell ya

I can see why your pissed off!
Same with me about the UKs licensing laws. Its legal to drink up the park or in out of the way places at night as long as you either: get your big brother to buy the carryout or; have a friend that can grow a mustache. You can drink in dodgy slum pubs whenever your voice breaks and in village pubs as long as you live in the village and your dad either: doesn’t drink in the pub or; buys you pints when you go in.
Night clubs are a bit shit though. You have to go through a perfunctory "where have you been tonight, mate" and "how many pints have you had" check even before you get to the age questions.
All these only apply to men though. Apparently as soon as a girl has tits she can wear a short skirt and get in anywhere.

flashleg8 wrote:

Numia Kereru wrote:

got tonkaed wrote:although sobriety works for you sir, many would actually like to drink every now and then (for some maybe its actually every single now and then)

I'm with you

Anyway, the drinking age here was 20 right up until 1999. Then they lowered it to 18. I had a bastard of a time trying to get into pubs and clubs as an 18 year old. Why couldn't the age have been lowered before I turned 20?? Bastards, I tell ya

I can see why your pissed off!
Same with me about the UKs licensing laws. Its legal to drink up the park or in out of the way places at night as long as you either: get your big brother to buy the carryout or; have a friend that can grow a mustache. You can drink in dodgy slum pubs whenever your voice breaks and in village pubs as long as you live in the village and your dad either: doesn’t drink in the pub or; buys you pints when you go in.
Night clubs are a bit shit though. You have to go through a perfunctory "where have you been tonight, mate" and "how many pints have you had" check even before you get to the age questions.
All these only apply to men though. Apparently as soon as a girl has tits she can wear a short skirt and get in anywhere.

And yet, they complain about equal treatment .

flashleg8 wrote:

luns101 wrote:
[...] The general point I was making is that even at 18 years of age, people think they are more mature than they actually are. Almost all of us think that way around age 18.

Generally, when people get 3 more years of life experience under their belts they tend to think and act a little differently, which might affect the way they vote. 21 sounds like a good age to allow voting. A friend of mine told me that he found stats to prove that the voting block of 18 -21 yrs of age has gone down in every presidential election since the passage of the 26th amendment. I'll have to look into it. Anyone else heard that as well?

I firmly believe people should be allowed to vote from 16 years old. At this age people are mature enough to know their own mind (in law). Though they might not have as much "life experience" as older people, they should have a say in how society is governed because at this age they are beginning to contribute to society. People at this age are either leaving school to enter the workforce or choosing to study further, either way their voice should be heard as government policies will directly effect them.
I understand your argument about voter apathy in the younger vote but I believe the voting turnout percentage would increase if younger people felt more included in the political process. I can't speak for the US, but in the UK all the major political parties fight over the "grey" vote by introducing many policies focused on pensioners while few (if any) policies are directed towards the 16-25 year olds. This is because historically the pensioners have a high voter turn out, while the 18-25 year old vote has a low turn out. What’s the point of making eye-catching policies focused towards people who aren’t going to vote for your party anyway?
If people were included in politics at school age - not just taught about it - they would feel more empowered to demand policies focused towards their needs and if voting percentages did rise the politicians would be forced to create more youth friendly policies.
If you want a current example of how the youth vote can be vitalised you need only look towards the French Presidential election of a few days ago. There was an 85% turn out at the first stage. With massive numbers of first time voters and young people registering and turning out. This is partly due to the policies that have/or are threatening to be implemented that will effect school leavers and people starting employment for the first time (along with the desire from the left to avoid the repeat of the Le Pen fiasco).
At present the 18-25 apathy vote will begin to turn into a 25-40 apathy vote over time - we must do more to strengthen or democratic process or else it becomes increasingly pointless.

I think 12 y.o's should be allowed to vote and drink,( i had to include this to keep it relevant to the topic). i'd like to get them all liquored up before voting. i'll drive them to the polling places and tell them who their vote should go to! just being nice you know.

Whenever i see organizations using kids in a political action or march, it tells me right off the bat that it's not worth my time supporting. any organization that would "USE" children in this way, and that's what they're doing, USING children, isn't worth squat!

I quoted your post only because you wrote that you FIRMLY believed that 16 year olds should be allowed to vote. There is no way a 16 year old understands the complexities of politics, and allowing them to vote would just "Dumb Down" the process. In the U.S. they are always trying to make the voting process "Easier", with laws like the Motor Voter, which lets you register to vote when you get your drivers license. I think it should be more difficult, If someone needs to be reminded to get their ass off the sofa and go vote then that's the person i dont want to vote! Making the process more difficult, would increase the ratio of informed, responsible and enthusiastic participation, and i think make the election outcomes more intelligent, and thus better for that nation.

18 is a good age. Old enough to go to college. Old enough to vote. Old enough to drink, but also, I would say, a good driving age. So 18 for voting, driving, drinking, and drafting.