Conquer Club

mikey6rocker wrote:Wait a minute, who is God? Is that the guy who takes the cereal from the kids? Oh wait, thats the Trix Rabbit, I get them confused because THEY BOTH DONT EXIST!

Theres the view of someone that don't really think about it, which is fair enough so why bother posting here.

I refuse to vote in the poll because I don't like either of my options. But I am curious to see how many people actually voted, and which direction the balance is tipped. Would someone mind posting this?

Just click view results right underneath the poll.

thanks...

This is why I despise religion:

Yahoo News

National Post

Machiavelli wrote:Time is infinit. If you comprehend that then come talk to me about what started everything.

but while we're waiting...

Is god ruler of the entire universe or just the earth?
(In your opinion)

*** It is not possible for man to phathom infinity or eternity. I believe that time only exists here on Earth. In the vastness of eternity there is no need for time. God being the creator of all things would also be the ruler of all things. I believe God created the universe so his rule would not be limited to just Earth.

If it's not possible for us to fathom eternity or infinity, how is it possible that we can fathom the mind of God? How can you claim to "know" God's mind or intentions? How can you claim to "know" what God wants and doesn't want? How can you claim to "know" which words are God's words and which are not? The answer is that you don't know; however, when you put forth your claims that God wants this or God thinks that, aren't you in fact making yourself a God? And, for God's sake, don't talk to me about Scripture. For all you know, a bunch of writers got together a couple of centuries ago and wrote the thing as a lark. Maybe they were just bored? Or maybe everything happened just like they said? Who knows?
However, if the owner of this thread would like to defend using Scripture, please begin by explaining why you would tell another participant in this forum that they will be punished for all of the foul things they've said when this so called Scripture dictates Judge not lest ye be judged / Let him without sin cast the first stone. Again, how do you know that God is offended and how do you know that God will punish (especially given the New Testament's emphasis on forgiveness) Will you be called to account for this "sin" of judging others or did you somehow get immunity?

Herein lies the problem with fundamentalism. Once conviction takes over, other points of view become invalid, other beliefs become threats and conflict ensues. Christian fundamentalists and Muslim fundamentalist are two sides of the same coin in my opinion. The only differences are the way they express their views, the way they try to force their views on others and the book they hold up to justify their actions.

The same goes for belief in Science/evolution. If you believe that the universe or life was created in a certain way and you pass that off as absolute truth to others, then aren't you making a creator out of yourself? Were you there when time began? Has your lifespan been so long that you can tell me you were able to see evolution occur? Frankly, I haven't heard a theory of creation yet which doesn't require either blind faith or an enormous leap of faith - they're all pretty outlandish.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

Jolly Roger wrote:If it's not possible for us to fathom eternity or infinity, how is it possible that we can fathom the mind of God? How can you claim to "know" God's mind or intentions? How can you claim to "know" what God wants and doesn't want? How can you claim to "know" which words are God's words and which are not? The answer is that you don't know; however, when you put forth your claims that God wants this or God thinks that, aren't you in fact making yourself a God? And, for God's sake, don't talk to me about Scripture. For all you know, a bunch of writers got together a couple of centuries ago and wrote the thing as a lark. Maybe they were just bored? Or maybe everything happened just like they said? Who knows?
However, if the owner of this thread would like to defend using Scripture, please begin by explaining why you would tell another participant in this forum that they will be punished for all of the foul things they've said when this so called Scripture dictates Judge not lest ye be judged / Let him without sin cast the first stone. Again, how do you know that God is offended and how do you know that God will punish (especially given the New Testament's emphasis on forgiveness) Will you be called to account for this "sin" of judging others or did you somehow get immunity?

Herein lies the problem with fundamentalism. Once conviction takes over, other points of view become invalid, other beliefs become threats and conflict ensues. Christian fundamentalists and Muslim fundamentalist are two sides of the same coin in my opinion. The only differences are the way they express their views, the way they try to force their views on others and the book they hold up to justify their actions.

The same goes for belief in Science/evolution. If you believe that the universe or life was created in a certain way and you pass that off as absolute truth to others, then aren't you making a creator out of yourself? Were you there when time began? Has your lifespan been so long that you can tell me you were able to see evolution occur? Frankly, I haven't heard a theory of creation yet which doesn't require either blind faith or an enormous leap of faith - they're all pretty outlandish.

Anyway, that's my two cents.

For starters.... "to know what God wants" you simply read His word. Now you say, " For all you know, a bunch of writers got together a couple of centuries ago and wrote the thing as a lark. " This is the big problem one must overcome in order for one to come to the realization that Jesus is who he claimed to be. Scripture validates itself. How so? The prophecies within it, wether they come true or not AND the accuracy of the predictions.
That being said, in the Old Testiment alone there are upwards of a thousand predictions that have all come to pass (or have yet to come to pass...future predictions) This is an astonishing feat for a book comprized of writtings by a bunch of "bored" people. You must establish that the Bible is indeed the word of God before beilieving what it says.

Moses wrote the first five books of the OT. But he just didn't sit down one day and start writting jibberish. The Bible says scripture in inspired of God. Which means God told the authors what to write down.

so if this post says it's inspired by God then it must be inspired by God? That's your logic? That ain't logic. Furthermore, if we believe your "logic" to be true, then we must also accept it for all other "scripture". Do you accept the holy texts of all other world religions then based on your own assertion?

I didn't say the Bible wasn't a good book. I only said that I could not vouch for it's accuracy given the various churches' history of cutting and pasting to suit their own ends along with uncertain authorship. How do you know Moses wrote anything? Translations might also be a factor. How's your Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek?

Look, I'm not telling you what to believe. I'm just saying it's a little self-centered to think that what you BELIEVE is necessarily the truth and to present it as such to others.

And you forgot to answer my question about passing judgement on others...

Jolly Roger wrote:so if this post says it's inspired by God then it must be inspired by God? That's your logic? That ain't logic. Furthermore, if we believe your "logic" to be true, then we must also accept it for all other "scripture". Do you accept the holy texts of all other world religions then based on your own assertion?

I didn't say the Bible wasn't a good book. I only said that I could not vouch for it's accuracy given the various churches' history of cutting and pasting to suit their own ends along with uncertain authorship. How do you know Moses wrote anything? Translations might also be a factor. How's your Hebrew, Aramaic and Greek?

Look, I'm not telling you what to believe. I'm just saying it's a little self-centered to think that what you BELIEVE is necessarily the truth and to present it as such to others.
And you forgot to answer my question about passing judgement on others...

I was not passing judgement. I simple quoted scripture that ALL will acount for the things we say. I will not sit back and let someone mock Jesus as a muslim would not allow one to mock mohamed. And the best way to refute this behavior is with Gods word.


The EVIDENCE that the Bible is inspired by God is the 100% accuracy of its predictions! Can man predict the future thousands of years in advance? Not just a handful of times but over 1000 predictions? Now if you can validate any other religious book to have an accuracy rate anywhere near 100%....you let me know.


If I know the truth.....why wouldn't I share it?

Can we have some examples of these prophecies that have come true?

kingwaffles wrote:Can we have some examples of these prophecies that have come true?

sure: http://www.reasons.org/resources/apolog ... hecy.shtml

jay_a2j wrote:Now if you can validate any other religious book to have an accuracy rate anywhere near 100%....you let me know.

Let's see. The Torah (AKA The Old Testament), The Koran (AKA The Old Testament), and the Principia Discordia (or How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Goddess)

jay_a2j wrote:sure: http://www.reasons.org/resources/apolog ... hecy.shtml

Wait a minute, you're proving biblical prophecy with the Bible? How does that prove anything other than that the Bible is consistent with itself?

It's like saying Nostradamus predicted something and then proving it with a later prediction by Nostradamus.

why cant you sit back and let someone mock jesus? in the biblical stories of his life, he never seemed to have much of a problem with people making fun of him. he did, after all, say we should turn the other cheek. given your zeal, I should think you would prefer to model yourself after him. Or perhaps you prefer God's more vengeful side from the OT since it more closely mirrors your own personality.

and yes - you did pass judgement on grim. Your response bears no resemblance to any Scriptural passage I've ever seen. You are making it up as you go along. Once again, YOu are pretending to speak with the authority of a God. Have you no humility?

[quote="Jolly Roger"] Your response bears no resemblance to any Scriptural passage I've ever seen. You are making it up as you go along.




You really need to read the Bible more.

Matthew 12:36
But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken.

vtmarik wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:sure: http://www.reasons.org/resources/apolog ... hecy.shtml

Wait a minute, you're proving biblical prophecy with the Bible? How does that prove anything other than that the Bible is consistent with itself?

It's like saying Nostradamus predicted something and then proving it with a later prediction by Nostradamus.

Someone wanna buy him a clue?

Open your eyes.

jay_a2j wrote:Someone wanna buy him a clue?

I'm waiting for your answer. No one else is going to answer for you.

was that "careless " word or "idle" word? And where did "vile" come from? Was that your addition?

First all I think every person in this pole is wrong. ( I dont mean any ofence for that, I'm not looking for a fight.) I believe that it dosn't matter what you believe as long as you try to live a good life and leave the earth a little nicer than when you got here, As for if God existences
or not those who believe in God see God, those who dont don't see him. Regarding Jesus even if he wasn't the son of God, (Which I believe he was) That he told everyone that they should love thy neighbor and turn the other cheek and that is why he is always being discussed, whether he was Gods son or not has no relivence he meerly left the world with more love and peace in it than when he came into it. As for the prediction of were Jesus whould be born and how much he would be betrayed for, those prediction may have been a lucky guess or a vission from God, Whatever you believe, There are many questions and we as a whole have presious few answears.

vtmarik wrote:

jay_a2j wrote:Someone wanna buy him a clue?

I'm waiting for your answer. No one else is going to answer for you.

I'm not "using the Bible" to validate Bibla prophesy. The predictions are IN the Bible. Humanity has fulfilled them...not the Bible.


example: Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013.)



Some 400 years before crucifiction was invented...it was predicted in the death of Jesus. Historians confim Jesus died on a cross.

Jolly Roger wrote:was that "careless " word or "idle" word? And where did "vile" come from? Was that your addition?

There are many translations. I'm not sure which translation that was.

Also I was paraphrasing... the fact remains the verse exists that you "never saw" and I was "making up".

jay_a2j wrote:I'm not "using the Bible" to validate Bibla prophesy. The predictions are IN the Bible. Humanity has fulfilled them...not the Bible.


example: Some 400 years before crucifixion was invented, both Israel's King David and the prophet Zechariah described the Messiah's death in words that perfectly depict that mode of execution. Further, they said that the body would be pierced and that none of the bones would be broken, contrary to customary procedure in cases of crucifixion (Psalm 22 and 34:20; Zechariah 12:10). Again, historians and New Testament writers confirm the fulfillment: Jesus of Nazareth died on a Roman cross, and his extraordinarily quick death eliminated the need for the usual breaking of bones. A spear was thrust into his side to verify that he was, indeed, dead.

(Probability of chance fulfillment = 1 in 1013.)



Some 400 years before crucifiction was invented...it was predicted in the death of Jesus. Historians confim Jesus died on a cross.

See? You confirm the prophecy in Palms and Zechariah with Jesus crucifixion which, so far, has no written record supporting the event outside of the Bible.

A real validation of prediction would be to say that a passage in the Bible was proven by, let's just choose one random event in modern history, man landing on the moon.

Does that page have real validation like that?