[Abandoned] Marooned

[natty dread]

@natty, I much prefer the coast in its current gradient/vaguely blurred way than as an abrupt edge. It's slightly more like a real shore and is easier on the eye, which I think really compliments the use of soft colours on this image.

Then you should make it more like a real aerial image...



Make the sand lighter, and give the island a region of shallow water around it... contrasting with deeper, bluer water further to sea.

[TaCktiX]

While the new icons are better than the color-coded carnival of confusion that the circles were, I think they're too indistinct. Blurriness just doesn't really fit for gameplay icons that define how the map works. Let the terrain and the sea be the blur section, but not what people need to understand the map.

Also, the numbering scheme is extremely convoluted. I realize it follows a pattern, but where there are dead ends or it runs into an already-numbered section, it seems like it doesn't. Then where numbered territories intersect with special territories (around F08 is a good example) the same thing happens as you "skip over" the special territory. I don't have any really good suggestions right this second for how to fix it, but it's something to consider.

Finally, where do players start? How do these starts compare to bonus regions? To the mountain and headlands? To food? These are going to be crucial to balancing the map.

[ManBungalow]

While the new icons are better than the color-coded carnival of confusion that the circles were, I think they're too indistinct. Blurriness just doesn't really fit for gameplay icons that define how the map works. Let the terrain and the sea be the blur section, but not what people need to understand the map.

I'm not quite sure I understand what you're trying to say here. Do you mean that the fish/headlands/food icons are too blurry? Or that the blur around the legend is out of place? I don't see this as a problem at the moment, but I'm willing to look into it.
Perhaps, like Andy suggested, I'll try solid, mostly context-less icons like those on the old Mars map.

Also, the numbering scheme is extremely convoluted. I realize it follows a pattern, but where there are dead ends or it runs into an already-numbered section, it seems like it doesn't. Then where numbered territories intersect with special territories (around F08 is a good example) the same thing happens as you "skip over" the special territory. I don't have any really good suggestions right this second for how to fix it, but it's something to consider.

Finally, where do players start? How do these starts compare to bonus regions? To the mountain and headlands? To food? These are going to be crucial to balancing the map.

I think I said somewhere in my long post on the previous page that the region names you see at the moment are temporary. As the regions themselves are likely to change, as is the font and various other things including region positioning on the image, I threw together some names so that contributors such as yourself can refer to individual regions. Furthermore, the code (F888 for food, S888 for shelter etc) is also likely to change. I had that on mainly due to concerns for the colourblind playing the map when all the icons were the same in shape.
As a matter of fact, I made the region names you see on a different image and merged them into one layer for this image, mainly because GIMP is a bitch and gives each article of text its own layer (making >100 excess), and so on.
At any rate, region names are going to change ultimately.

Players start on the shelters. Due to the number of shelters, each participant will always have more than one shelter, even in 8-player games.

I'm planning on doing a really solid think-through of each region placement over the next few days; and then, finally, the proposed starting neutrals can be released to the public eye.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Oh, and Natty: I've got something relevant to your shallow water post assembled, and that can be part of my next update.

[TaCktiX]

I'm meaning the icons are blurry. And I feel your pain about text layers being multiple, but it's really handy for editing.

[natty dread]

What I do with text layers is, I preserve the original text layers in the image but I turn them invisible and put them somewhere near the top, and just copy the text to a regular layer, so that I have a layer with all the territory names, and I have a duplicate invisible text layer of each territory name in case I need to edit the names.

This combines the good of both worlds, you get the flexibility of an editable text layer, and you also get a single layer you can use to apply effects.

As for amount of layers, there's nothing to help with that for now - you're going to have oodles of layers and that's that...

Of course, 2.8 is only 3 months away and it will introduce layer groups. So there's that.

[ManBungalow]

This is more of a graphical trial than a real update. I've replaced the blurry rectangular headland 'thing' with a potential new contender, slightly more in the vein of a Moai statue, I suppose. The headlands don't have to be these statue 'things', of course, but that's what I'm testing at the moment. It seems quite fitting to the theme and should accommodate army numbers while immediately making it clear what type of region it is. Other viable icon suggestions are more than welcome. The new guy may look a little perverted and I'm not really happy with it, but if everyone likes it that way, it'll stay. In other words: how should I improve it and what else do you want?

And then, glaringly obviously, the colour of the island (and sea) has changed and there's that ring of shallows around it now in accordance with Natty's suggestions.

Also, there are some green numbers on the starting positions for some reason or another. I guess I forgot to hide those layers. Anyway. they make it clear to me that the shelters need a revamp.

[bigimg]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr317/ManBungalow/MAROONED_08.png[/bigimg]

RE. text layers:
Just as a matter of interest, I actually copied the entire .xcf document and opened the new file. Then I added the region names and the glow, which makes >100 layers, of course. After, I hid all the other layers but the text/glow ones, and went to 'make new layer from visible'. And thus, I had a single layer with all the region names on. It's easy enough to copy that onto the real map file and keep it in the same position. So, to be honest, I can change the region names around relatively easily by opening the other file. True - slightly vague - story.

[gimil]

Hi Manbungalow,

I am finding your map is coming along nicely. Although the symbols on the map have been troubling me for a while. It is only now that I think I have put my finger on it. Your symbols are tones and shades that blend into the background tones and shades. For this reason they don't seem to stand out and sit on top of the map like they should.

I suggest that you make your tones brighter and more vibrant so that they can be easily seen and identified. Make your white circles whiter and your yellow triangles brighter. Get what I mean?


Gimil

[TaCktiX]

I'm going to piggy-back on that to say "increase the opacity majorly on the symbols." That'll accomplish what good ol' Gimmie is saying. As for the headlands, that's a good start but I feel like it needs slightly more definition. It looks indistinct.

[AndyDufresne]

Your fish remind me of goldfish crackers. Maybe an implement instead of fish?





http://www.mapletip.com/images/maplesto ... 432008.png





--Andy

[ManBungalow]

The icons are all going through what I hope to be the last total revamp as I juggle the regions around to fully sort out the gameplay, and this should result in a solution to the criticism TaCktiX and Gimil offered. Here's what I want to do with the shelter symbol:
[bigimg]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr317/ManBungalow/SHELTER.png[/bigimg]

@Andy, the chances are high that the fish will be improved in said revamp, but I'm not sure how effective it will be to have a fishing rod which might not show up against the background so well. Even that shelter on the image above doesn't show up incredibly well against the forest backdrop (which I guess will have to be toned down), and masses of glow doesn't seem to suit the icons (and that glow is why the legend might look weird to you), but I'll have a think about it.

Also, I could clear the forest around each shelter icon and see how it looks. Anyhow, proper updates are coming sooner or later.

[gimil]

Hi ManBungalow,

I have just noticed your thread title doesn't have version or page numbers of updates. Could you include these to aid the following of development, please?

[ManBungalow]

All fixed up, Gimil.

I'm developing a modified gameplay to make the map more fair, and should be able to release schematics of this before long.

[gimil]

All fixed up, Gimil.

I'm developing a modified gameplay to make the map more fair, and should be able to release schematics of this before long.

Thank you very much

[Gillipig]

I feel the map has lost something during the last couple of updates. It doesn't have the same feel of sunny optimism and looks a bit cluttered with all the new symbols. I think part of the beauty of the map was the colours and that it was fairly simple. I think it's gotten too advanced for it's own good.

[ManBungalow]

I'm really glad to hear that you think it was overcomplicated, Gillipig, because - when designing what follows - I had all the coves/headlands/trails in mind; thinking that they didn't really add much to the map. And so, here's what I have so far with the gameplay revamp:

[bigimg]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr317/ManBungalow/GAMEPLAY-1.png[/bigimg]

You may notice that the shelters are tactically placed - all 2 steps from at least two food regions. And, as most have access to three food regions, I'm trying to give the disadvantaged start positions perks such as access to fishing/autodeploy regions. Also notice that each bonus region is competed for among multiple starting positions. It'll take more shape and make more sense in the next few days, with any luck.

The graphics are also going to change, as I wasn't really happy with either of the two prevailing pictures used so far. There is a possibility that it could be in the style of a treasure map, not unlike Age of Merchants in graphical theme, but we shall see.

[Gillipig]

I'm really glad to hear that you think it was overcomplicated, Gillipig, because - when designing what follows - I had all the coves/headlands/trails in mind; thinking that they didn't really add much to the map. And so, here's what I have so far with the gameplay revamp:

[bigimg]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr317/ManBungalow/GAMEPLAY-1.png[/bigimg]

You may notice that the shelters are tactically placed - all 2 steps from at least two food regions. And, as most have access to three food regions, I'm trying to give the disadvantaged start positions perks such as access to fishing/autodeploy regions. Also notice that each bonus region is competed for among multiple starting positions. It'll take more shape and make more sense in the next few days, with any luck.

The graphics are also going to change, as I wasn't really happy with either of the two prevailing pictures used so far. There is a possibility that it could be in the style of a treasure map, not unlike Age of Merchants in graphical theme, but we shall see.

I'm not really for making it a treasure map. I don't see how it would fit well with the whole marooned theme. But if you do decide to go that path may I suggest the starting positions could be ships? A couple of different pirate ships all looking for the treasure hidden in the middle of the island? But I like the thought of someone washed a shore on a deserted island more. I'm looking forward to seeing this develop!

[Victor Sullivan]

I think he meant in the style of a treasure map, not an actual treasure map - the core idea of "Marooned" would still be there. I think it could work.

-Sully

[ManBungalow]

Completed new gameplay skeleton:

[bigimg]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr317/ManBungalow/ISLAND_GAMEPLAY.png[/bigimg]

This may seem like a massive step back, but I know exactly what direction I'm heading in with the graphics now; and I couldn't push a map into Beta with crappy gameplay even with the greatest graphical design in the multiverse.

As stated in a post before this, each shelter is 2 steps away from at least 2 food regions. Those that only have immediate access to 2 food regions (a minority) typically have access to a fishing region, bonus region or other advantage. See that every bonus and food region (not including fishing regions) is challenged by neighbouring shelters. Fishing regions will offer a bonus less than that of a food region.

If there are any concerns, suggestions and opinions about this gameplay schematic, the time to voice them is now, as I'm going to be filling in some graphics in the meantime.

[ManBungalow]

After several weeks, here's an update:

[bigimg]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr317/ManBungalow/MRND01.png[/bigimg]

As before, each player starts with a number of sheltered regions and everything else starts as neutral. I might make the landmark into a +1 auto-deploy, but otherwise I think the gameplay is largely fixed now. I can see a bunch of quite changes that need to be made - graphical, mostly - so this is the time to start really nitpicking as far as I'm concerned. Fire away.

[Gillipig]

I think you're getting away from the original look a bit too much. It's starting have the look of a small Asian middle ages village instead of a deserted island. Also I can't give you any more feedback until you remove that horrible signature. What's the sense in making people have to foe you just to not get seizures?

[ManBungalow]

I think you're getting away from the original look a bit too much. It's starting have the look of a small Asian middle ages village instead of a deserted island. Also I can't give you any more feedback until you remove that horrible signature. What's the sense in making people have to foe you just to not get seizures?

Do you think this aesthetic could be rectified by changing the symbol for the sheltered regions?

I wanted something synonymous with a makeshift shelter but also identifiable immediately as an important region.

But then again, I suppose I could change the name of the map to 'Tribal Island War' and be done with it. What say ye?

Also, I changed the signature. Not least because it was getting on my nerves too.

[Gillipig]

Do you think this aesthetic could be rectified by changing the symbol for the sheltered regions?

I wanted something synonymous with a makeshift shelter but also identifiable immediately as an important region.

But then again, I suppose I could change the name of the map to 'Tribal Island War' and be done with it. What say ye?

Also, I changed the signature. Not least because it was getting on my nerves too.

The whole feel is different now so changing symbols isn't going to do enough I think. I'm not sure if I like the tribal war theme. I liked the original theme a lot. I think things started go the wrong way when symbols where suggested. Before that it had a very simple but positive wibe to it. But If you are looking for other themes I would suggest you turn it into a treasure map! Pirates looking for a treasure located where the mountain is now. They could for example need some things to retrieve the treasure. Each player could start on a pirate ship. It would fit very well with the current graphics. Just change some symbols and the title of course.
[bigimg]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr317/ManBungalow/MRND01.png[/bigimg]



I think this was the best version for the marooned theme. No symbols placed yet.
[bigimg]http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/rr317/ManBungalow/MAROONED_05.png[/bigimg]

[BigBallinStalin]

The color scheme on this one:

show

is much easier to read than the current version.


Just my 2 cents, but the idea is appealing. Thanks for subliminally messaging me!

[thehippo8]

I agree with BigBallinStalin!

[Industrial Helix]

I'm really liking this map and looking forward to playing it... but I think the story should make some account of the other players on the island... like hostile natives or fellow marooners