Conquer Club

Bruceswar wrote:The Final score. They games were in before chuuuck called for them. Sure they flip flopped on some games, but let it go.

The 12 hour rule is tricky as this is their first time using it. Every clan messes up with it the first time. Just relax a bit, and you will feel better about things.

Bruceswar wrote:You are making mountains out of ant piles. Relax, it is good for your blood pressure. If we were playing a clan and they broke the 12 hour rule we would simply ask for the territories and move on. Not counting maps were it matters not.(Feudal and the like.)

Remember it is just a game, and sure rules are rules, but no need to hang a new clan by their necks for minor stuff.

Bruceswar wrote:You are making mountains out of ant piles. Relax, it is good for your blood pressure. If we were playing a clan and they broke the 12 hour rule we would simply ask for the territories and move on. Not counting maps were it matters not.(Feudal and the like.)

Remember it is just a game, and sure rules are rules, but no need to hang a new clan by their necks for minor stuff.

Bruceswar wrote:Playing in too many games is not the same as violating a 12 hour fog rule. Lets not mix the 2.. Good luck to both clans!

Bruceswar wrote:Playing in too many games is not the same as violating a 12 hour fog rule. Lets not mix the 2..

Hamanu wrote:

Bruceswar wrote:Playing in too many games is not the same as violating a 12 hour fog rule. Lets not mix the 2.. Good luck to both clans!

Well, just saying, everything is relative and one tends to add too much value to one's own problems and undermine those of someone else. I happen to think that a player playing in a couple of games over his limit can just as easily be considered an "honest mistake" as breaking several agreements. And of course, from your perspective the game count is the holy grail whereas 12hrs and game changing are a triviality. One man's rebel is another man's freedom fighter.

Subjectivity is such a wonderful human trait, isn't it?

Hamanu wrote:
...Well, just saying, everything is relative and one tends to add too much value to one's own problems and undermine those of someone else. I happen to think that a player playing in a couple of games over his limit can just as easily be considered an "honest mistake" as breaking several agreements...

stahrgazer wrote:

Namor wrote:It doesn't look as though they are saying, "f* the rules, we'll do what we want, when we want, no matter what."

Added:
Besides, putting it into perspective.

The two clans made the following side-agreements:

1) Exchange as many games as possible on the 9th (OSA violated)

In other words, OSA violated or attempted to violate each and every agreement they made, while LoW adhered to the agreements.

Deadpool wrote:Couldn't 0 be the most possible that day? It is very hard to violate that "side-agreement." It is like agreeing to try your best and having someone else turn around and tell you that you didn't.

I am also glad this is in perspective.

stahrgazer wrote:I don't believe violating every negotiation looks like "accident" so it was time to bring major attention to it.

jpcloet wrote:

stahrgazer wrote:I don't believe violating every negotiation looks like "accident" so it was time to bring major attention to it.

Instead of making a big deal, why not simply pm Chuuuck and have him make a ruling or come up with an agreement.

jakewilliams wrote:chuck doesn't have to make a decision, it's up to LoW to decide if they want to stick with the original rules or not. At least, that's what we learned from Bruce and his Cowards - it's all up to the aggrieved party whether or not to rake the other clan over the coals for an honest mistake.

jakewilliams wrote:

jpcloet wrote:

stahrgazer wrote:I don't believe violating every negotiation looks like "accident" so it was time to bring major attention to it.

Instead of making a big deal, why not simply pm Chuuuck and have him make a ruling or come up with an agreement.

chuck doesn't have to make a decision, it's up to LoW to decide if they want to stick with the original rules or not. At least, that's what we learned from Bruce and his Cowards - it's all up to the aggrieved party whether or not to rake the other clan over the coals for an honest mistake.

And an additional note for bruceswar - shove your self-righteous attitude up your ass. You're such a fucking prick with your attitude, and if LoW is too nice to say it in such words, I'm not. Stop acting like you're such a great guy and have all this love for everyone on here. It's sickening. I can't even foe you so I don't have to read your shit in the forums because the moderator foe function is broken.

Jake speaks for himself, not TOFU.

stahrgazer wrote:They broke EVERY agreement they made.

If that doesn't matter, what does?

Bruceswar wrote:The Final score.

stahrgazer wrote:

Deadpool wrote:Couldn't 0 be the most possible that day? It is very hard to violate that "side-agreement." It is like agreeing to try your best and having someone else turn around and tell you that you didn't.

I am also glad this is in perspective.

But even assuming it was all 'accidents' - you don't teach a child what to do and not to do when they've done something wrong, by rewarding said child with candy. You take the candy away to teach lesson.

jakewilliams wrote:

jpcloet wrote:

stahrgazer wrote:I don't believe violating every negotiation looks like "accident" so it was time to bring major attention to it.

Instead of making a big deal, why not simply pm Chuuuck and have him make a ruling or come up with an agreement.

chuck doesn't have to make a decision, it's up to LoW to decide if they want to stick with the original rules or not. At least, that's what we learned from Bruce and his Cowards - it's all up to the aggrieved party whether or not to rake the other clan over the coals for an honest mistake.

And an additional note for bruceswar - shove your self-righteous attitude up your ass. You're such a fucking prick with your attitude, and if LoW is too nice to say it in such words, I'm not. Stop acting like you're such a great guy and have all this love for everyone on here. It's sickening. I can't even foe you so I don't have to read your shit in the forums because the moderator foe function is broken.

Jake speaks for himself, not TOFU.

Sent: Mar 9th, '11, 11:57
From: benga
To: stahrgazer
I have made those I can fill today,
will wait for freemiums till saturday
if they still have ongoing games
I will just make the ones I can fill with premiums

So if you like all now made can start today and others will come later this week.

Sent: Mar 9th, '11, 15:29
From: benga
To: stahrgazer
are you ok with what I said, should I fill your games and you our 6 atm
and other 4 will come at latest on saturday?

Sent: Mar 9th, '11, 20:42
From: benga
To: stahrgazer
they should join by saturday all games
i have sent invites for ačč exiting games
GL!

Sent: Mar 10th, '11, 08:19
From: benga
To: reptile stahrgazer
Triples
Game 8665171 England

Quads
Game 8665169 Pearl Harbor
Game 8665164 Stalingrad
Game 8665157 Das Schloss
Game 8665156 WWII Poland
Game 8665155 Feudal Epic

I have sent them reminder twice about 12 h
and also when started a clan warned them about it.

I will send the whole list of games again to both you and chuck when I make them all.

Chuuuuck wrote:Okay, here is my understanding and the ruling on the issues.

1) 12-hour fog rule was violated multiple times. I guess this is something I forgot to think of when writing out the rules, in the future if there is an agreed upon rule between clans then I will discuss what happens if that rule is broken with them before it comes to it, because as we stand right now, there was not a defined punishment.

It is my intent to keep this as fair as possible for all sides and let game play decide the winners of each match and nothing else. With no agreed upon punishment in advance, then for this instance I will allow LoW to decide whether or not they want to remake the games where the fog rule was violated. Except, they cannot restart the Feudal Epic game. Although Benga did violate the rule in that game, there can never be an advantage for violating that rule on conquer style maps (with 1 starting territory) so no harm was done there. In the past, Empire has specified that 12-hour fog does not apply in these types of games. I will make sure that is better clarified in the future.

2) From all of the communications it seems stahrgazer was saying that benga agree to send all games on the 9th. From the communications I saw, he said he had 6 games already created and he will send those on the 9th and the rest will come soon to follow. He then proceeded to not send any games on the 9th and all games on the 10th. Although I agree this isn't the right way to handle things on benga's part (I think if he said he would send 6 games on the 9th, he should of sent 6 games) there will be no punishment for these games coming in 1 day late. They were still sent in before the deadline date of the tournament and, as pointed out in the original post of the Conqueror's Cup thread, there will be some leniency given with sending the games on the exact date. I stated that after games were late, I would talk to violating clan and tell them they have a few days to get them sent and if they are still late then game punishments will be handed out from there. With OSA only being 1 day late and trying to follow the nature of the rule that I have laid out for everyone, I will not punish them anymore for this as they have not delayed the tournament at all. However, I do feel this is slightly poor sportsmanship on their part and will warn benga to be more timely in the future because if I have to address this topic again with him then I will remember this occassion.

3) I have asked everyone to send the 41st game as part of batch 1 to keep the games moving more quickly. I was sent a PM a while back stating that OSA has asked to postpone but you all said you would fill that game as quickly as possible. LoW agreed and I also agreed. Then OSA tried to send it with their first batch on the 10th right after asking it be postponed. On top of that, LoW should of been sending the game. Although I feel this is another hassle and poor organization from OSA. I see no actual way that this hurts anything in the competition. The agreement is you all would play it as soon as possible and I guess this all of the sudden became as soon as possible. Since the game is not being played yet, LoW, please remake this game at your earliest possible convenience and get it under way.

In the end, I feel most of OSA's violations were relatively minor and don't go out of the way of giving them an unfair advantage in the actual war. However, I think it is important to note for OSA that top level clans do a lot of planning in preparation. Everyone is very busy in their real lives and we work hard to do time management and plan ahead for game loads/start dates/etc. When you do not fulfill agreements that you make such as start dates for games and stuff it gets frustrating for the opponents who are trying to make all of the arrangements on their side. Please be mindful of this in the future and please get your clan better organized for this stuff. This is basically a first warning for them because there was not a lot of violation that gave advantage in the war as I said, but if it persists, then actual punishments may follow.

jpcloet, can you please quote this into the thread.

stahrgazer wrote:FYI.

I've asked Chuuuuck to correct his first statement on item 2 - I never said benga agreed to send all games on the 9th; I said very clearly he said 6 but sent none.

When I know from the clan what they want to do about the fog games (remake or let them stay as is) we'll notify.

Chuuuuck wrote:I hate to add much pressure here, I should of included this in that message, but you all will need to post a decision on whether you want to remake those games or not within 24 hours.