Conquer Club

kgb007 wrote:just to clarify, SW you did not have to pick someone to investigate and betiko did as far as the two gifts go? I think you acknowledged the difference here but just want to be sure I'm understanding correctly:

strike wolf wrote:I would say it is worth discussion. We only had one known gift last night but tonight we have two. I think betiko said enough for that to be interesting. It is possible that Gifter #2 was just unable to put in his gift but I still find it worth discussion especially as so far Betiko's gift does not work the way mine did.

Can we stop with the speculation on how many gifts have been given? I don't know what that adds to the gameplay right now as it seems like more a distraction. What is more important is the fact that two people have come forward today with gifts but seem to playing chicken. Betiko, you should have kept your mouth shut if you got an town investigation unless that player came under pressure.

Just ask SW: would you have offered the gift information yesterday if it was "sausage is town" I know I wouldn't have initially.

For the horse participants: Edoc suggested it and lootifer cooperated but the justification on who's horse your taking is telling as well.

FOS spiesr for taking SW without justification, the fact that SW correctly led us to the lynch of sausage yesterday and built a compelling case against Jmac today, why are you taking his horse?

I'm sorry but do you or anyone here knows who I have cleared though my gift investigation? If I reveal what I have now there is less chance that I'm bullshitting if ever the wrong guy gets pressured.

And yes, it's important to know the nature of anark's gift for several reasons explained
-if he bullshited about the gift and he's scum, this will give him way too much leverage whenever he wants and basically he could make up pretty much anything in any future situation.
-if he had a same gift as mine, or as strike, or totally different it will give us the start of a pattern. As I said before, if there are 2 gift givers I doubt they are both pro town as this would be too unballanced for mafia.

TECHNICALLY I was gifted a watch N1, but the night was ended before I was even PMed that I received one, and the gifts don't work the next day, use or lose.

betiko wrote:I'm sorry but do you or anyone here knows who I have cleared though my gift investigation? If I reveal what I have now there is less chance that I'm bullshitting if ever the wrong guy gets pressured.

No, but if the scum don't kill you we will basically have to policy lynch you. It stands to reason that the will kill you (governors are annoying, and that's the only way they typically die, and people accept you as town atm) and you know the name of a town player, so silencing you is important. If they DON'T kill you either they are bad, you are scum, or there is just a STUPID amount of WIFOM flying about. Largely annoying situation that would have been totally prevented by you keeping your mouth shut, and only saving the player if needed. And now the Doc may be foolish enough to try to save you, just because you may have information.

Does this clear up why some players are annoyed?

edocsil wrote:

betiko wrote:I'm sorry but do you or anyone here knows who I have cleared though my gift investigation? If I reveal what I have now there is less chance that I'm bullshitting if ever the wrong guy gets pressured.

No, but if the scum don't kill you we will basically have to policy lynch you. It stands to reason that the will kill you (governors are annoying, and that's the only way they typically die, and people accept you as town atm) and you know the name of a town player, so silencing you is important. If they DON'T kill you either they are bad, you are scum, or there is just a STUPID amount of WIFOM flying about. Largely annoying situation that would have been totally prevented by you keeping your mouth shut, and only saving the player if needed. And now the Doc may be foolish enough to try to save you, just because you may have information.

Does this clear up why some players are annoyed?

As far as I know, I am not cleared as town and I m on a half hot seat. I have no guarantee the person I investigated isn t the godfather nor that I can trust 100% those gifts.
From my point of view revealing that I received a gift too and that it was different from the only gift known so far was important to say. Wether you like it or not, I don t give a shit.

I agree 100% with Edocsil. I also stated that you could have kept your mouth shut and used your given information if and when the time was needed. Nothing about you has been cleared while the WIFOM theories are flowing like the Nile from you. While I can appreciate the fact, that if you are indeed town, you are trying to stimulate discussion your speculation only muddies the water.

First if the gift giver or givers are band wagoned and forced to claim their only way to clear their role claim is by what they gave and to whom.

The question I have is why would there not be more then one gift giver? Consider the fact that this could have gone the other way if Dracula was not killed? This is not a traditional game as we can see by the time manipulation and horse game. With a 22 player game and cult/mafia why would their not be roles that help investigate?

Anarkistsdream wrote:Also... is jmac pulling a whatsausage? No rebuttal yet?

jmac & Rodion (my watch) each posted once this short day (on Thursday, shortly after the scene). jmac has been logged in CC both yesterday and today without commenting on the case against him.

betiko wrote:

strike wolf wrote:

strike wolf wrote:I'd like to hear the nature of Nark's gift before I make any judgments.

Ebwop: The specific result is unnecessary but what it was would be helpful.

that's exaclty what I asked for, but anark is a bit jumpy if you ask him anything.

this game needs proding... everyone has disapeared this week!

1) Nark already stated his gift isn't investigative in nature. I imagine he has his reasons for not going into more detail. I'm willing to give him a pass today. Perhaps he'll feel more comfortable revealing its nature after it has been used... or not used.
2) +1 on the prodding

kgb007 wrote:For the horse participants: Edoc suggested it and lootifer cooperated but the justification on who's horse your taking is telling as well.

My primary justification is self-preservation . I've got a town read on Strike and don't have much of a read either way on Lootifer & spiesr so they are both fair game. Lootifer passed the horse to me earlier and spiesr has never passed it to me. My approach atm is to give the horse right back to the last person who gave it to me (out of Loot & spiesr) in hopes of discouraging them from giving it to me. So....

Lootifer, that's my horse.

Iron Butterfly wrote:I agree 100% with Edocsil. I also stated that you could have kept your mouth shut and used your given information if and when the time was needed. Nothing about you has been cleared while the WIFOM theories are flowing like the Nile from you. While I can appreciate the fact, that if you are indeed town, you are trying to stimulate discussion your speculation only muddies the water.

First if the gift giver or givers are band wagoned and forced to claim their only way to clear their role claim is by what they gave and to whom.

The question I have is why would there not be more then one gift giver? Consider the fact that this could have gone the other way if Dracula was not killed? This is not a traditional game as we can see by the time manipulation and horse game. With a 22 player game and cult/mafia why would their not be roles that help investigate?

Again, you speculate my thought process from missreads. I think that 2 gifters is a possibility, I said it twice, and that is why I outed the fact that I received a gift too and that I wanted to compare gifts to find 2 possible patterns.
While I do find your argument makes sense, I believe mine does too. What I also said about the 2 gifters scenario is that one is possibly insane or partly insane, In order to rebalance things a bit.
I would be greatfull if next time you READ my posts instead of making stuff up, you ve done it a few times with me this game.
It would be completely stupid to sit on my information without investigating if the source is reliable, I have no guarantee the gift comes from the same gifter as strike.

Fp

The reason regular cops don't come out D2 and reveal their innocent results is that it's not worth to expose such an important role just to clear an unknown player. When it's a gift, though, you'll not be revealing the source of the investigative power by claiming your results right away. I think you should claim just to have the information out in the open. There is no damage in revealing a possibly insane investigation because we are not forced to follow whatever result you claim. It's still good to have the result out, though, in case you die and the gifter ends up flipping sane.

Edoc has posted and now the mystery seems to be solved with 2 gifts per night.

What we currently have is:

N2 Strike - gifter picks target and Strike opens package (sane or paranoid cop)
N2 Edoc - gifter gives watch (not used due to clock ending the night earlier)
N3 Betiko - gifter gives power and Betiko picks the target (sane, insane or naive cop)
N3 Nark - ???

Hi all, I'm back.

vote hotshot for trying to protect whatsausage D1.

Am I missing something or does Betiko not actually have information right now?

This all seems like a bit of a distraction tbh, but it feels like a distraction that is town lead (i.e. potentially Betiko/Nark just being paranoid townies and everyone else throwing their 2c in).

So the jmac case... anyone town-reading him? It would be good to have someone counter SW's (and mine) to a certain extent.

Also very slight fos on Edoc. You said you had a case [on me] but have since gone silent; I don't like non-deliveries on promises.

Finally Mudpuppy thats my horse!

ebwop: Gone silent on the case that is.

Sorry I am not sure I clarified earlier. I received Whatsausage's name as a gift. It did not work as a traditional investigation.

Rodion wrote:The reason regular cops don't come out D2 and reveal their innocent results is that it's not worth to expose such an important role just to clear an unknown player. When it's a gift, though, you'll not be revealing the source of the investigative power by claiming your results right away. I think you should claim just to have the information out in the open. There is no damage in revealing a possibly insane investigation because we are not forced to follow whatever result you claim. It's still good to have the result out, though, in case you die and the gifter ends up flipping sane.

Edoc has posted and now the mystery seems to be solved with 2 gifts per night.

What we currently have is:

N2 Strike - gifter picks target and Strike opens package (sane or paranoid cop)
N2 Edoc - gifter gives watch (not used due to clock ending the night earlier)
N3 Betiko - gifter gives power and Betiko picks the target (sane, insane or naive cop)
N3 Nark - ???

Edoc said Night 1. Though either way it does describe a gift similar to betiko's and different than mine so the two gift issue does become less significant.

edocsil wrote:TECHNICALLY I was gifted a watch N1, but the night was ended before I was even PMed that I received one, and the gifts don't work the next day, use or lose.

kgb007 wrote:just to clarify, SW you did not have to pick someone to investigate and betiko did as far as the two gifts go? I think you acknowledged the difference here but just want to be sure I'm understanding correctly:

strike wolf wrote:I would say it is worth discussion. We only had one known gift last night but tonight we have two. I think betiko said enough for that to be interesting. It is possible that Gifter #2 was just unable to put in his gift but I still find it worth discussion especially as so far Betiko's gift does not work the way mine did.

Can we stop with the speculation on how many gifts have been given? I don't know what that adds to the gameplay right now as it seems like more a distraction. What is more important is the fact that two people have come forward today with gifts but seem to playing chicken. Betiko, you should have kept your mouth shut if you got an town investigation unless that player came under pressure.

Just ask SW: would you have offered the gift information yesterday if it was "sausage is town" I know I wouldn't have initially.

For the horse participants: Edoc suggested it and lootifer cooperated but the justification on who's horse your taking is telling as well.

FOS spiesr for taking SW without justification, the fact that SW correctly led us to the lynch of sausage yesterday and built a compelling case against Jmac today, why are you taking his horse?

I indeed would not have immediately came forward with the information if I was told that the person was town not mafia. I wouldn't have come forward immediately unless that person became the lynch du jour. For the record KGB has posted and this is proof. Which reminds me:

1. Strike->KGB
2. Anarkist>Lootifer
3. IB->Sheep
5. Lootifer>Spiesr
6. Rodion>Edoc
7. Doomyoshi>Betiko
8. Spiesr>MudPuppy
10. Hotshot>Strike
11. Jmac>Anarkist
14. Tails>Hotshot
16. KGB->IB
17. Edoc>Tails
18. Sheep->Doomyoshi
19. Betiko>Jmac
20. Mudpuppy>Rodion

Lootifer wrote:Am I missing something or does Betiko not actually have information right now?

This all seems like a bit of a distraction tbh, but it feels like a distraction that is town lead (i.e. potentially Betiko/Nark just being paranoid townies and everyone else throwing their 2c in).

So the jmac case... anyone town-reading him? It would be good to have someone counter SW's (and mine) to a certain extent.

Also very slight fos on Edoc. You said you had a case [on me] but have since gone silent; I don't like non-deliveries on promises.

Finally Mudpuppy thats my horse!

Yeah. I tried to build it, but it just seemed crappy and unhelpful.

Vote Count

Jmac - 3 (SW, Loot, HotShot)
HotShot - 1 (DY)

MudPuppy is currently without a horse.

With 15 alive it takes 8 to lynch. Deadline is June 2 at 2:00 AM ET.

With time running low and no response yet to the votes against him (despite being on CC), I'll add a smidge more pressure and vote jmac.

I already told you, Lootifer, that's my horse.

sheep hasn't posted in a week. IB, he's your watch and you haven't noted his inactivity.

ok, while I had some suspicions yesterday about jmac; the fact that he is logging in and out of CC with the biggest pressure and that he doesn't come here to defend himself; it obviously makes me think of what saussage.

I'll add another one to that to get his claim.

vote jmac

Also, I agree with everything rodion said in his last post.

If you agree, shouldn't you reveal the innocent? o.0

vote jmac

I, too, do not like his scummarining. Not much to add besides that.

-Tails

If most people are fine with it, I ll go ahead.

Fp

I think he s now at l-2? No need for further votes, let s give him a chance to claim and defend himself. PCM can you prod him?

OK. Starting from my last post on Friday. (Sorry, been busy this weekend. I got to meet Brian Posehn, though, and smoke a shitload of pot with him! WOOT!)

Anyway....
Hotshot suggested a Santa Claus role... That makes pretty good sense to me... Maybe he knows who is naughty and who is nice???

Betiko suggests I may have bullshitted the gift, which I did not... And, now that Edocsil has proven that more than one can happen per night and that they are not neccessarily investigative gifts, I will say that I was made bulletproof last night... I didn't want to tell anyone that in case they tried to kill me and it failed... So, yes, I felt that it was none of your business. Needless to say, you STILL haven't answered about what you learned, betiko, so, in my opinion, you are looking fairly scummy your damn self. (I don't have any reason to believe you were given anything at all... Especially since YOURS is the only one that doesn't match up with the rest of OURS... We were not given a chance to pick shit... It was either use it or lose it... Yet somehow YOUR ability allowed you to choose who to investigate)

Spiesr seems to agree with me, which is nice to have some backup

spiesr wrote:You complain about him not revealing things while you refuse to tell us which townie you have theoretically cleared?

Also, thank you Mudpuppy for actually reasding my post where I specifically said I did not have an investigative role. Apparently, betiko is too topsy turvey trying to pin some idiotic mess on me that he fails to actually read the posts he is questioning...

Finally, betiko completely changes modes and throws a vote at jmac... Nice hop on the bandwagon after you figured out your argument against me was completely devoid of any merit.

Since jmac has enough votes on him, I am going to
Vote: Betiko

I don't believe your story... At all.

And if I am given another gift and it DOES happen to be investigative, I am using it on you.

Quick self preservation post....

Spiesr that's my horse. (FU MP)

Lootifer wrote:Quick self preservation post....

Spiesr that's my horse. (FU MP)

You see? This is why you are scum in my books.

Vote Loot I know jmac is the case right now, and no to distract from that, but seriously, The deadline is in 5 hours, you have quite likely killed spiesr here. Could you at least pretend that you were not just saving your own ass here, and think about who you are throwing the horse at for 30 seconds?

MudPuppy wrote:With time running low and no response yet to the votes against him (despite being on CC), I'll add a smidge more pressure and vote jmac.

I already told you, Lootifer, that's my horse.

sheep hasn't posted in a week. IB, he's your watch and you haven't noted his inactivity.

Sheep has been prodded. IB is in the hospital again.

We love you, IB!!! Take care, brother...

As for the argument against Lootifer... I can't dispute that, but self-preservation is a mug and I did the same thing by choosing virus, knowing that he was many hours ahead... It is truly shitty, but this horse game is pretty messed up.

Lootifer wrote:(FU MP)

edocsil wrote:You see? This is why you are scum in my books.

Vote Loot I know jmac is the case right now, and no to distract from that, but seriously, The deadline is in 5 hours, you have quite likely killed spiesr here. Could you at least pretend that you were not just saving your own ass here, and think about who you are throwing the horse at for 30 seconds?

Nothing against spiesr but what is Loot supposed to do? He already gave Strike a pass. No matter how Townish spiesr (or anyone else in the horse game) may appear, do you really expect Lootifer to NOT steal a horse? I certainly won't take it personally if spiesr steals mine in the final minutes... in fact, I expect it. I also would and will pass it right back to him when he does. There's no pretending by anyone in the horse game... they truly are trying to save their own asses. Sure, you can analyze who they steal the horse from... but would it have been any less scummy for him to take Strike's or my steed? I can see you being upset if he tried to steal Strike's after saying he'd give him a pass... but if Loot is Town (or even if he isn't) it would simply be bad play to willingly sacrifice himself. The only way I'd willingly remain horseless is if I'd agreed to abide by a Town vote for who gets stuck without one... but absent that, it's every man for himself. No apologies.

pancakemix wrote:Sheep has been prodded. IB is in the hospital again.

Feel better, IB!!!