Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:29 am
by DirtyDishSoap
Pikanchion wrote:Worst case for lynching kills a Vengeful and two random town, worst case for not lynching kills two random town and reveals who our Cop is to scum; we lynch somebody other than dakky21, this person is—for all intents and purposes—the same person dakky21 will choose, but then a Cop investigating dakky21 is discovered by a scum Watcher who's observing them, and then scum still get the same nightkill as in the other case. So is one of these worst case scenarios really significantly worse than the other?
Perhaps worth mentioning here is that the best case for not lynching dakky21 kills some random scum via lynch, while best case for lynching is that dakky21 is a scum-sided bomb, and we try to force some other random scum to make the hammer, lynching them instead when they refuse and getting to do the same thing tomorrow.
The former is an echo, the latter, yes but it's largely dependent on when the cop reveals. Wouldn't you agree that if a cop were to live at least for the next couple days that it narrows the margin of who is who significantly if he were to reveal, say, Day 4 or perhaps 5? You're thinking that someone is going to reveal the following day and simply toss his role to the wind. In any event, I doubt a cop would waste an investigation on Dakky when it's more beneficial to simply block him or divert him when we're unsure if he's town or not.
Pikanchion wrote:dakky21's role does gain power the later it's used, I'm not disputing that, but who gets to harness that power is dependant largely on the scum/town ratio, if the game is going well we don't need a powerful dakky21 anyway, if the game is going poorly we need to not have one. The worst case for lynching dakky21 only gets worse the fewer players we have, right now the worst case is losing power roles (which could happen anyway if we lynch another), later on the worst case is losing the game immediately at a point where lynching literally anybody else would not do that.
If we go under the assumption that dakky21 is town, what is so bad about finding these alternatives for the lynch and simply passing them over to dakky21 to arbitrate?
Sure, that's one of the worst case scenarios, but I don't believe it'll be down to the exact wire if Dakky were to be lynched and he turns bomb and we lose the game outright. If I recall at one point, Dakky did make a claim that was rather outrageous and tying himself to his scum partner by being a toy distributor or some such non sense. (Balance Not Included). I don't believe Dakky would make a claim for Vengeful, an actual role that's rarely used here. I'm about 80% sure Dakky says who he says he is. The other 20% is doubting myself and underestimating the situation.
May or may not have worded that correctly, but you should be asking yourself that question, rather than myself who wants to find an alternative now, who is seeing a potentially bad play and go back to Dakky at a later time.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:29 am
by DirtyDishSoap
I'm illiterate, big words confuse me.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:33 am
by BuJaber
Can we agree that an unofficial vote is still helpful anyway? Our decision to lynch or not after that puts us back to this moment but with additional choices for lynchees. We want targets for dakky and you want to consider alternatives. This will satisfy both objectives. You've already participated by giving us your picks now we just convince everyone else to. And if someone hammers in the meantime they run the risk of looking the most scummy anyway.
Mitch if it makes you feel better: if the unofficial vote puts me as scummy from a majority of players I'm willing to unvote and then lynch dakky with the hammer myself. It's a cooperative game and I'd risk catching his bullet for the cause. Especially that I don't really buy his claim but this plan is good for covering our asses if dakky is being honest.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:35 am
by DirtyDishSoap
DirtyDishSoap wrote:If we can't reach an alternative, than I'll be more than happy to throw my vote back onto Dakky and go from there.
That's my unofficial vote.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:45 am
by Pikanchion
DirtyDishSoap wrote:
Pikanchion wrote:Worst case for lynching kills a Vengeful and two random town, worst case for not lynching kills two random town and reveals who our Cop is to scum; we lynch somebody other than dakky21, this person is—for all intents and purposes—the same person dakky21 will choose, but then a Cop investigating dakky21 is discovered by a scum Watcher who's observing them, and then scum still get the same nightkill as in the other case. So is one of these worst case scenarios really significantly worse than the other?
Perhaps worth mentioning here is that the best case for not lynching dakky21 kills some random scum via lynch, while best case for lynching is that dakky21 is a scum-sided bomb, and we try to force some other random scum to make the hammer, lynching them instead when they refuse and getting to do the same thing tomorrow.
The former is an echo, the latter, yes but it's largely dependent on when the cop reveals. Wouldn't you agree that if a cop were to live at least for the next couple days that it narrows the margin of who is who significantly if he were to reveal, say, Day 4 or perhaps 5? You're thinking that someone is going to reveal the following day and simply toss his role to the wind. In any event, I doubt a cop would waste an investigation on Dakky when it's more beneficial to simply block him or divert him when we're unsure if he's town or not.
No, in this case I'm saying the Cop will be seen by a scum Watcher and be killed tomorrow night before they reveal anything at all, if the Cop investigates and finds dakky21 is scum that's actually better than if they find them to be town because then I would assume they do reveal this information tomorrow, and at least a Doctor would then have a chance at being able to protect them. Otherwise we're forced to assume dakky21 is town no matter how they've acted so far today.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:
DirtyDishSoap wrote:If we can't reach an alternative, than I'll be more than happy to throw my vote back onto Dakky and go from there.
That's my unofficial vote.
That dakky21 should hammer himself..? Perhaps not the worst idea if you assume he's a scum-sided Bomb =P
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:51 am
by DirtyDishSoap
Will be or presuming he will be? It's a bold prediction that they would hit one of our investigation roles immediately. Personally, I would rather have a Cop reveal after Day 3 unless the information he has obtained is absolutely crucial. And we're not forced to assume anything about Dakky. If he doesn't get lynched today, chances are, someone pro-town will divert/block/kill him the following night.
Lol. Dakky, vote for yourself for the good of the town, damnit! In all seriousness, the 20% is looming over me like a dark cloud. I hate being wrong.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:01 am
by dakky21
I just woke up so I'll just say I can shoot anyone when I am lynched, if I correctly understood the role. Will post more later today.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 7:32 am
by Skoffin
on mobile
My computer killed iyself. Should jopegully be fixed tomorrow. You fuckers better not lynch anyone in that time.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 8:12 am
by DirtyDishSoap
Quick, vote for Skoffin.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 9:51 am
by Ragian
I still think MM is the way to go. Althought DDS is getting annoying enough to get lynched
Why is it we're sure that scum have a watcher, Pika?
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:00 pm
by Pikanchion
Ragian wrote:I still think MM is the way to go. Althought DDS is getting annoying enough to get lynched ;)
Why is it we're sure that scum have a watcher, Pika?
We're not, DirtyDishSoap decided we should become hung up on the worst case scenario though, that said they are a fairly common role (certainly more so than Bomb, and somewhat more so than Vengeful too). If last night was a no-kill due to a Doctor targetting Thorthoth we'll find out tomorrow morning when that Doctor shows up murdered in all likelihood however, so maybe we'll see. The fact we have a Townie with self-confirmation powers does suggest a Watcher is likelier than normal though as this is one of the few roles a Watcher should always be able to gain information off of during at least one of the nights.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 12:54 pm
by FloresDelMal
Ok here goes my 2 cents in this confusing times, since policy lynch was brought up i could like to point that if you believe in dakky's claim you should vote for him, that is that the policy says is best for town, then if you are a firm believer of policy lynch then we should look into lynching thor, because lynching the village idiot is another policy lynch and that's why i didnt vote dakky for his vote on him, but last and not least policy lynch and the true reason why i am voting dakky, the very reason why i dont believe his claim, is another policy lynch that seems to have fallen out of grace with you ppl, that is LAL or for those not familiar with the concept "Lynch all liars", he lied once, why are you all so eager to believe in him now? i don't believe his claim, his dwarf is low on the list of the likely to appear dwarves cast made by pika who seems very well versed on lore, and he lied about the mod, so my vote stays right where it is, in times of uncertainty i think simple is better, and doesnt get any simpler than LAL.
Now, if you ppl do trust him and are afraid of voting him, what can i do? i am ok going for hotshot atm while i wait for the contribution of MM's and he is taking his sweet time so im expecting A LOT, again if you ppl wont go for a dakky lynch, then i suggest that the cop stay away from him tonight, but if we have a town watcher it could be cool to have him watch dakky, that way if he gets killed by scum we learn which scumster NKed him, and if he survives the night i assume you all could feel more comfortable going for him on D3 if no better leads surfaced, and that's flo's secret *tongue pop*
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 1:04 pm
by FloresDelMal
forgot the gif :B
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 2:41 pm
by Samlen
I used to believe in LAL. Then I played with a couple of random people that made the most ridiculous fabricated stories and roles and were town... Policy lynches honestly seem to mostly give town an excuse to not think and aren't always right, which is why I try not to think about lynching in terms of policy. Which brings me back to the "I don't think scum would risk their neck like this" argument and why I don't think we should lynch dakky.
@Pika Why would we choose dakky to pseudo-lynch for the town? He has no night action that gives him more information than us so he's just shooting based of off scummy tells in the thread, which we can do already without loosing an extra townie. @Dakky we got confirmation that you can kill anyone when lynched but can you deny/confirm if you were trying to get yourself lynched to use your ability?
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 5:52 pm
by Minister Masket
Ragian wrote:I still think MM is the way to go. Althought DDS is getting annoying enough to get lynched
Why is it we're sure that scum have a watcher, Pika?
Your particular attempts to get me re-voted have been duly noted, make sure of that.
After a quick re-read tonight, Imma Vote Hotshot, and I made that decision before getting to Flores' vote on him, so that's technically not joining any bandwagon. Skoffin's points about him Day 1 may have only been semi-serious but they still stand today, and it's looking like he's attempting to stay consciously out of the limelight.
I'm getting major 'all-town' vibes from the debate about dakky and thor. As in I reckon scum were counting on staying silent and hoping town start accusing each other to the point of lynch.
That may not be "alot" Flores for now but they'll be more coming I assure you.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:41 pm
by ZaBeast
Now, it is obvious that dakky's behavior is best explained by his vengeful claim, even how hard he pushed on D1 (he could still kill someone if lynched). I don't think he'd be vengeful scum, since, as explained in the wiki, it basically gives scum a free kill. However, dakky could still be scum, as he could have acted scummy on purpose to make a fake claim. After all, it's not very likely someone could have contradicted him, as this role is not that common. A bit of a stretch, but not entirely impossible. Therefore, I don't see why dakky couldn't be subjected to a regular vote instead of the complicated way pika put up. Also, I'm wary of everyone wanting to lynch him because he claimed vengeful or stuff like that. Either you believe he truly is vengeful townie and you don't lynch him, either you think he lied and you vote for him. As simple as that. Dakky just got way up in my town reads (and maybe that's what he wanted). So for now, I'll unvote and stick with my BJ vote vote BuJaber
lord voldemort wrote:I hope there is something left for the late-comers to eat and drink! What's that? Tea! No thank you! A little red wine, I think, for me." "And for me," said Thorin. "And raspberry jam and apple-tart," said Bifur. "And mince-pies and cheese," said Bofur. "And pork-pie and salad," said Bombur. "And more cakes-and ale-and coffee, if you don't mind," called the other dwarves through the door.
There is more I could say about this list, it is in fact taken almost unchanged from the post I had been planning to make, but all I will say today is that I have fairly strong reasons to believe that some of those towards the bottom of the list are indeed scum.
It's probably a bit late to talk flavor, but I couldn't help but notice the three dwarves you found the less likely to be town are in the N1 scene btw. Could it have an impact on your reading of which characters could be town roles? I mean, I think the only characters named in the posted scenes so far are Gandalf, Thorin, Bilbo, Balin and these three.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 6:45 pm
by ZaBeast
BuJaber wrote:We don't have to lynch before dakky answers but we will still follow the same strategy regardless of his answer because if C) he kills anybody, our vote changes nothing but gives us more info on what people are thinking
Any vote that is not binding will bring town no information. Scum may vote other scums or may vote townies since the result wouldn't matter. No way to tell.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:07 pm
by Skoffin
Ok nublets.
As I have already said, I think this plan is madness. Aside from the reasoning that you should never lynch someone you think is town, it's also just plain dumb as, on the assumption that dakky is truthful, it puts all our faith in one person to correctly pick scum. How does a lynch work? We discuss, we vote and then that person has the final opportunity to convince us with a roleclaim. Using dakky to shoot takes away our discussion on the target and it means they do not get to claim as a final measure to save themselves; it means we risk the chance that he shoots a cop, or a doc, or any other useful town roles we have and we lose any info they may have revealed. It also means if we do kill one of our town-PRs that we now have no info on their death because it was not a normal vote discussion. so again, vote him if you think he is scum but not if you think he is town.
As for the explanation for dakky's behaviour, I have none; and I am not going to spend time coming up with my own ludicrous theories to explain him away, as it is his job to explain himself. So dakky, what do you have to say about your behaviour thus far? Was pika's assessment accurate, and if it was; why did you want to do all that in the first place? And if pika's explanation is not the case, explain in what way any of your posts have been pro-town.
Depending on what he has to say about all this will determine what I do from here, and if he's reasonng is not credible.. then f*ck it, I'll hammer him then.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:09 pm
by Skoffin
FloresDelMal wrote:is another policy lynch that seems to have fallen out of grace with you ppl, that is LAL or for those not familiar with the concept "Lynch all liars", he lied once, why are you all so eager to believe in him now?
The issue I have with policy lynching on LAL is that I lie in pretty much every game I play, and it's always to benefit myself/my alignment. If you went with LAL I'd be lynched every game and I'd be town most of the time. There are benefits to lying, so it should be by case by case basis rather than "you lied so you must die no matter what now".
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 10:22 pm
by HotShot53
After re-reading the day, I don't believe dakky and would be willing to vote/hammer him. Some think he made the scummy posts trying to get lynched because of that role, but that just doesn't make sense. Why would a town want to get lynched, just so he can take a pot shot? Chances are, if he was telling the truth, he'd just shoot another towny, and we'd be really bad off. If he felt someone was strong enough scum to be wiling to be lynched in order to shoot, then he should have strong enough reason to convince us to just lynch the other person rather than lynching himself. But he hasn't even tried to make a strong case on anyone today except our confirmed town member. So I don't see a good reason for him intentionally trying to lynch himself, therefore I think his scummy posts are actually scummy posts.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2017 11:59 pm
by Pikanchion
Samlen wrote:@Pika Why would we choose dakky to pseudo-lynch for the town? He has no night action that gives him more information than us so he's just shooting based of off scummy tells in the thread, which we can do already without loosing an extra townie.
[spoiler=Well...]
Pikanchion wrote:First, the Vengeful Policy-Lynch (specifically on claims made under duress) has strong reasons for existing in general: If the lynchee is lying then town kills scum; Chances are the bandwagon on said player already contains scum and lynching them gives a free kill to hopefully target one of these scum players; Not lynching the one who made the claim immediately pretty much guarantees that scum will not be caught by this player's kill, assuming they ever even get to use it; Not lynching immediately also forces the Town's Cop role (assuming one exists) to investigate the Vengeful, usually wasting one of their actions.
Pikanchion wrote:Currently dakky21 is a major liability to town, we can't assume he is telling the truth and leave him living because we have no proof, and then we either end up treating scum as confirmed town for the rest of the game or potentially both put our Cop at risk and waste one of their actions (if scum have a Watcher we can be fairly sure they'll be watching dakky21 now). Then of course if he isn't actually a Vengeful Townie he's got to be scum, so we still want to lynch him.
Skoffin wrote:But let's for one brief insane moment pretend this is all exactly what transpired; the idea here seems to be that we should lynch town-dakky to have him shoot a possible scumster with the luck of rainbows and fairy wishes. Soz but if you think dakky is town then you have no business voting him, and if you think dakky is scum then you should vote him for it. Town should never lynch someone they believe is town; you either think he is town or you don't. Where are your heads at?
And what do we do if we are unsure which of the two options to go for? -By lynching dakky21 we save a Cop who doesn't believe him town an action, while keeping that Cop safer, and if dakky21 really wasn't lying we still get to make a psuedo-lynch using the Vengeful ability. If you wholeheartedly believe dakky21 is a Vengeful Townie, but that we should not lynch him (and that—by extension—he should not wish to be lynched), then please explain how any of the first three or four posts made by him today make sense. His posts since my proposal only serve to make him look scummier than before, because if he's a scum-sided Bomb rather than a Vengeful Townie we have taken control of one of scum's abilities to use potentially against them.
madmitch wrote:as far as I am concerned Pika you are making things way to complicated for a player like me.At this point we seem to have 2 confirmed town Thorth ( innocent child ) and Dakky ( vengeful townie ). So you either believe Dakky claim or not, why not vote for someone else and check him at night then we would all know for sure. I do not like this second vote ideal .it just seems like a waste of time and are you suggesting this ideal to make your self look town Pika ? Does anybody else think this ideal is scummy or am I reading this all wrong?
We don't have two confirmed town though, we have one, and we have dakky21 who unless we kill today we may as well treat as one, because not doing so is risky for anybody who investigates them. If you believe dakky21's claim you should lynch them because it's the only way their role can still be used now they've claimed, if you don't then you should lynch them for being scum.
DirtyDishSoap wrote:If Dakky's role claim is true, that's a lot more power for us in later stages. Assuming it becomes a very tight game where say...There is 4 scum and 5 town, and Dakky is the one that get's lynched, that's a lot of killing potential for Dakky. On another hand, leaving Dakky alive puts him as a target so they don't have to deal with it later in the day, and that's essentially protecting more crucial roles like a cop or doc. Take that same scenario I said earlier, and you basically have a way to kill scum in that same stage whilst also determining who else is scum if played correctly, (but this is also assuming that Dakky doesn't miss and is on the same page as the rest of the town). There's a multitude of ways at looking at this, but I disagree with lynching him today.
That's just not true, in your scenario we've gotten to LyLo and then decide that now's the best time to lynch somebody we think is town, and you say my plan is illogical? Now that dakky21 has claimed, if they are what they claim it's now or never for their role being even remotely effective because you will not be able to get scum to cooperate later unless we're already close to winning, at which point you no longer need their cooperation; the higher the ratio of scum to town the easier it becomes for them to get whoever they want on the list, and right now we have a low scum to town ratio.
Pikanchion wrote:That's just not true, in your scenario we've gotten to LyLo and then decide that now's the best time to lynch somebody we think is town, and you say my plan is illogical? Now that dakky21 has claimed, if they are what they claim it's now or never for their role being even remotely effective because you will not be able to get scum to cooperate later unless we're already close to winning, at which point you no longer need their cooperation; the higher the ratio of scum to town the easier it becomes for them to get whoever they want on the list, and right now we have a low scum to town ratio.
It's illogical for the reasons stated above. I don't like the worse case scenario. It's risky. If he indeed is trying to get himself lynched, as you have stated, then what reason is there to believe is that he's 100% scum if he is fishing to be lynched? I believe he's better left alive for right now for the later stages. Yes, he revealed, but I think that role itself has more power in a tighter knit game compared to being the first lynchee.
All I'm asking at this point is to seek alternatives, we don't have a deadline as of right now and I believe it'll be more beneficial if we explore other players. I'm more than willing to pursue MM with Bu for a mutual hunch, or Beast or even Ragian for what I believed to be passive role fishing. If we can't reach an alternative, than I'll be more than happy to throw my vote back onto Dakky and go from there.
dakky21's role does gain power the later it's used, I'm not disputing that, but who gets to harness that power is dependant largely on the scum/town ratio, if the game is going well we don't need a powerful dakky21 anyway, if the game is going poorly we need to not have one. The worst case for lynching dakky21 only gets worse the fewer players we have, right now the worst case is losing power roles (which could happen anyway if we lynch another), later on the worst case is losing the game immediately at a point where lynching literally anybody else would not do that.
If we go under the assumption that dakky21 is town, what is so bad about finding these alternatives for the lynch and simply passing them over to dakky21 to arbitrate?
Pikanchion wrote:Worst case for lynching kills a Vengeful and two random town, worst case for not lynching kills two random town and reveals who our Cop is to scum; we lynch somebody other than dakky21, this person is—for all intents and purposes—the same person dakky21 will choose, but then a Cop investigating dakky21 is discovered by a scum Watcher who's observing them, and then scum still get the same nightkill as in the other case. So is one of these worst case scenarios really significantly worse than the other?
Perhaps worth mentioning here is that the best case for not lynching dakky21 kills some random scum via lynch, while best case for lynching is that dakky21 is a scum-sided bomb, and we try to force some other random scum to make the hammer, lynching them instead when they refuse and getting to do the same thing tomorrow.
The former is an echo, the latter, yes but it's largely dependent on when the cop reveals. Wouldn't you agree that if a cop were to live at least for the next couple days that it narrows the margin of who is who significantly if he were to reveal, say, Day 4 or perhaps 5? You're thinking that someone is going to reveal the following day and simply toss his role to the wind. In any event, I doubt a cop would waste an investigation on Dakky when it's more beneficial to simply block him or divert him when we're unsure if he's town or not.
No, in this case I'm saying the Cop will be seen by a scum Watcher and be killed tomorrow night before they reveal anything at all, if the Cop investigates and finds dakky21 is scum that's actually better than if they find them to be town because then I would assume they do reveal this information tomorrow, and at least a Doctor would then have a chance at being able to protect them. Otherwise we're forced to assume dakky21 is town no matter how they've acted so far today.
[/spoiler]See also what I will be writing below in response to Skoffin.
lord voldemort wrote:I hope there is something left for the late-comers to eat and drink! What's that? Tea! No thank you! A little red wine, I think, for me." "And for me," said Thorin. "And raspberry jam and apple-tart," said Bifur. "And mince-pies and cheese," said Bofur. "And pork-pie and salad," said Bombur. "And more cakes-and ale-and coffee, if you don't mind," called the other dwarves through the door.
There is more I could say about this list, it is in fact taken almost unchanged from the post I had been planning to make, but all I will say today is that I have fairly strong reasons to believe that some of those towards the bottom of the list are indeed scum.
It's probably a bit late to talk flavor, but I couldn't help but notice the three dwarves you found the less likely to be town are in the N1 scene btw. Could it have an impact on your reading of which characters could be town roles? I mean, I think the only characters named in the posted scenes so far are Gandalf, Thorin, Bilbo, Balin and these three.
Eh, this is a direct quote from the book (around halfway through the first chapter), Thorin, Bifur, Bofur, and Bombur are the last to arrive and arrive all at once (in the book all the dwarves arrive in larger groups rather than the more individual way they do in the films). My hypothesis relies on the fake-claim dwarves still being present (or it wouldn't be much of a fake claim), and simply being mentioned by fluff text is not alignment indicative of itself (we've actually had 15 characters mentioned at least indirectly: 13 Hoods (i.e. Dwarves) + Bilbo + Gandalf) so unless Smuag, Gollum, or The Necromancer are a lone scum we've already reached the point where assuming being mentioned in the fluff makes you automatically town seems wrong.
---
Skoffin wrote:Aside from the reasoning that you should never lynch someone you think is town, it's also just plain dumb as, on the assumption that dakky is truthful, it puts all our faith in one person to correctly pick scum. How does a lynch work? We discuss, we vote and then that person has the final opportunity to convince us with a roleclaim. Using dakky to shoot takes away our discussion on the target and it means they do not get to claim as a final measure to save themselves; it means we risk the chance that he shoots a cop, or a doc, or any other useful town roles we have and we lose any info they may have revealed. It also means if we do kill one of our town-PRs that we now have no info on their death because it was not a normal vote discussion.
It doesn't put our faith solely in dakky21, why would somebody not act in the way they would if about to be lynched when being asked to join the dakky21 bandwagon? -If you are a town PR in this case you would still be able to claim to save yourself from this fate. Obviously nobody else can choose for dakky21, but it's certainly heavily implied by the town's actions in this case that we think he should lynch one of the two candidates we put forward unless he has significant reason not to. We should no more risk a Cop or Doctor by doing this than we would by voting for them directly unless you don't believe in dakky21's abilities as a player. In fact if dakky21 maintains the "claim"—if you can't say for sure how your own role works you need to ask the mod for clarification—that they can target anybody (which I find highly suspect), I'm happy to drop all this additional voting stuff and say we should outright lynch dakky21 for being scum as that just sounds too far-fetched to me.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:05 am
by Ragian
I defo agree with your latest sentiment, Pika. Dakky needs to sort out his role. Staying intentionally vague indicates scum as far as I'm concerned.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 1:33 am
by BuJaber
My position has been that dakky is scum from the moment I voted for him. This other plan is just in case we're wrong.
ZB they can lie and choose scum to hid themselves but we analyze all posts of a player to determine scum and later on they might say or do something that will be revealing or will expose them as hypocritical. The way I see it we get two to three bandwagons to analyze instead of just whoever gets lynched.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
FloresDelMal wrote:is another policy lynch that seems to have fallen out of grace with you ppl, that is LAL or for those not familiar with the concept "Lynch all liars", he lied once, why are you all so eager to believe in him now?
The issue I have with policy lynching on LAL is that I lie in pretty much every game I play, and it's always to benefit myself/my alignment. If you went with LAL I'd be lynched every game and I'd be town most of the time. There are benefits to lying, so it should be by case by case basis rather than "you lied so you must die no matter what now". :P
LAL is more a policy around concrete claims, fabrication of actions, and inexplicable internal inconsistencies than it is about the sort of misdirection you tend to use (which incidentally is exactly the cause of some being unable not to read you specifically as scummy in almost every game Skoffin); The policy is designed mostly to prevent things such as somebody saying (as town) that they are a Doctor if they aren't, as this is only likely to put the real Doctor in danger when they feel compelled to counterclaim, or things that are demonstrably untrue such as dakky21's earlier post about lord voldemort having never modded previously. Not all lies are equal, and LAL is actually more Lynch All Liars (of the following types...), but to be so specific is usually unnecessary: common knowledge of the most basic version of the rule (simply anybody who ever lies should be lynched) is purposefully propagated amongst new players as they otherwise have a distinct tendancy to, often innocently, make the sort of lie that generally harms town such as the Doctor-claiming example above, and knowledge of this policy helps prevent that until such time as they have a proper feel for the game.
Re: The Hobbit Mafia [D2- There is a key](replace needed)
Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2017 4:29 am
by madmitch
Since nobody know s exactly what to do with the Dakky claim, and I sure do not want another day with no-lynch maybe we should go back to D1 picks and start again. And Pika I think you are trying to be helpful explaining lal but it is just annoying to read more fluff posts, you and MM wasted have of D1 posting about LOTR and I think you are trying to hard to appear townish, FOS PIKA and VOTE H.S.
forgot the gif :B