Conquer Club

Lionz wrote:Is there a particular fossil you would like to discuss in detail?

Not really.

Lionz wrote:What are they from if so?

I dunno... you could google it though if you like?

Lionz wrote:When do tributaries enter rivers at obtuse angles?

The question you are posing, is a hand picked one by creationists.
However, it's one of two things. Either
A) the river once flowed North
B) geography, titling, depression, uplift, faults,... and other things I cant remember the name for forced the water to run that way. A raindrop is not a bullet, and can't force its way through stone.

I toss my hat into the "A" ring personally, though I have nothing invested in the outcome.

What I want to know though, is how you take this as evidence of creationism?

You might want to CTRL F search barbed canyons here...

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebo ... nyon5.html

Take this as in take what? Would evidence for a global flood not naturally be evidence for Genesis?

Lionz wrote:MeDeFe,

You refer to plant life containing chlorophyll? Would earth spawning organisms with chlorophyll not be an example of an increase of order on earth in the first place?

You asked for an example, I gave you one. Don't complain because you don't like it.

I literally feel dumber for having read that. The second I asked myself "how does he (the author) know all this?" It all fell apart.

Walt Brown (1989)—Hydroplate Theory (summarized on pages 108–140).35 Sediments, produced during the flood phase, settled through the flood waters, grain by grain. Liquefaction sorted those sediments into layers totaling, on average, a mile in thickness. About 20% of the flood water was trapped between those grains at the end of the flood. As that subsurface water escaped during the following years, much of today’s terrain was sculpted.

Near the end of the flood, continent-size hydroplates (lubricated below by water) accelerated downhill, away from the rising Mid-Atlantic Ridge and toward the sinking Pacific plate. Within hours, the hydroplates met resistances and crashed. This compression event crushed, thickened, and buckled the hydroplates, pushing up earth’s major mountain ranges. [For details, see pages 108–140 and 172–183.]

This is not a theory. This is a hypothesis.

Lionz wrote:You might want to CTRL F search barbed canyons here...

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebo ... nyon5.html

Take this as in take what? Would evidence for a global flood not naturally be evidence for Genesis?

Why not for the Greek flood myth?

Lionz wrote:Big,

If the great pyramid backs up history according to Hebrew scripture and the scripture claims that there's a Creator of the heavens and the earth, then does the great pyramid itself not suggest that there's a Creator of the heavens and the earth?

MeDeFe,

You refer to plant life containing chlorophyll? Would earth spawning organisms with chlorophyll not be an example of an increase of order on earth in the first place?

AAFitz,

You responded to one or more thing directed at Big like it was directed at you maybe. I'm not claiming anything's proof of anything and you ask one or more thing that comes down to definition perhaps, but should we not weigh evidence whether or not we can actually prove anything at all?

So, you dont believe your timeline on the pyramid means anything. Thank you for answering the question. Perhaps we can move on now.

Jones,

Evidence for a global flood would be evidence for several flood legends maybe, but how many flood legends are there that back up Genesis?

http://www.secfanatics.com/vbulletin/sh ... stcount=11

There's one or more disclaimer on an original topic post that concerns that perhaps.

AAFitz,

Did I say I thought anything meant nothing?

What if the hawain story is the absolutely true one?
And Genesis backs that up?

Lionz wrote:Jones,

Evidence for a global flood would be evidence for several flood legends maybe, but how many flood legends are there that back up Genesis?

http://www.secfanatics.com/vbulletin/sh ... stcount=11

There's one or more disclaimer on an original topic post that concerns that perhaps.

AAFitz,

Did I say I thought anything meant nothing?

Yes, you made it very clear that you thought the pyramid was just a coincidence finally.

Lionz wrote:Juan,

http://www.answersingenesis.org/article ... into-birds

Look for a section with this above it there maybe... Do feathered dinosaurs exist?

Yes.

And scientists definitely did not start out thinking dinosaurs were birds. That's one reason they were named "terrible lizards", not "terrible birds". A lot of the most conclusive evidence on came about with advanced techniques that allow us to see not just the surfaces of fossils, but to actually see into fossils. In some cases, the evidence was there, but it was dismissed or simply not recognized until someone else, actually a bunch of someone elses (because it had to be verified on multiple specimens, etc.) came in and took a look.

Lionz wrote:If the pyramid has an entrance point that corresponds to the flood and then a descending tunnel reaches from there to a point where we can either choose to head up or keep going down and that point corresponds to the Exodus and then we get to a point corresponding to Him being born where we can stretch out more and a tunnel starts there that heads down to a pit area and it at least basically has a width corresponding to how long He lived between birth and crucifixion and we are currently at a place in time that's just before a centerpoint of the King's Chamber, then what's random? I did not even mention a point for Creation or Noah being born in that and there are things I could add to the timeline that I have not perhaps. Want to know where a Temple destruction or 1492 or WW2 would fall?

Lionz, you do realize that this stuff was put forth in Chariots of the Gods don't you?

Jones,

Is there a Hawaiian text that's over a thousand years old? Stuff being passed on by word of mouth can do much to distort names and places and more over time perhaps... but maybe we can learn stuff from various flood legends and here's a chart found online that can help us figure out what really happened...



AAFitz,

I'm not convinced anything at all is a coincidence maybe, but what can really be proven?

PLAYER,

Did Marco Polo not write about living dinosaurs in The Travels of Marco Polo and suggest there were people hunting dinosaurs over 50 feet in length less than 1,000 years ago in it? http://www.apologeticspress.org/articles/3806

Did he not even claim a Chinese Emperor had a number of dragons which were used to pull his chariots in parades? Did Josephus not write about flying serpents in the Antiquities of the Jews? Did Herodotus not write of winged serpents over two thousand years ago? Does the Aberdeen Bestiary not clearly refer to one or more dinosaur? Are dragons not mentioned as very rare but still living creatures in a 16th century four-volume encyclopedia entitled Historiae Animalium? http://www.genesispark.com/genpark/history/history.htm

Did Daniken ever suggest that the great pyramid was designed by the Father or suggest that it backed up Hebrew scripture?

Lionz wrote:Jones,

Is there a Hawaiian text that's over a thousand years old? Stuff being passed on by word of mouth can do much to distort names and places and more over time perhaps... but maybe we can learn stuff from various flood legends and here's a chart found online that can help us figure out what really happened...

Just like the Bible before it was written down.

Does evidence not suggest there was a global deluge that had to do with corruption of mankind and a flood warning unheeded by masses and divine destruction and a survival vessel and the preservation of eight humans with representative animal life and sending forth of a bird to determine suitability of reemerging land and significance in the rainbow and descent from a mountain and re-population of the earth from a single group of survivors including a man with a name that sounded like Noah regardless of whether or not we personally believe a Hebrew account? Maybe people can put pieces together even if they never see a Hebrew account.

Lionz wrote:Does evidence not suggest there was a global deluge that had to do with corruption of mankind and a flood warning unheeded by masses and divine destruction and a survival vessel and the preservation of eight humans with representative animal life and sending forth of a bird to determine suitability of reemerging land and significance in the rainbow and descent from a mountain and re-population of the earth from a single group of survivors including a man with a name that sounded like Noah regardless of whether or not we personally believe a Hebrew account? Maybe people can put pieces together even if they never see a Hebrew account.

The longest run-on question in this fora's history. Congratulations!!

: )

Lionz. Ok. I give. You win. You have managed to suck all the fun out of arguing about these things. I'm bored, so I'm going to stop with the megapost battle. If you have a single topic you want to talk about, then I'm willing to oblige. I don't have the time or the patience to continue exposing every flaw in every random thing you've read about on the internet.

It was fun while it lasted, and I hope you figure out someday that your belief system does not correspond to what we observe in our universe. Good luck with that.

Noo-noo, the vacuum cleaner from the Teletubbies, is obviously a slightly garbled version of the name Noah, too.
As is my Nanna.
You won't convince me otherwise. No way. No how. Nu-uh. No ah.

Lionz wrote:You might want to CTRL F search barbed canyons here...

http://www.creationscience.com/onlinebo ... nyon5.html

Take this as in take what? Would evidence for a global flood not naturally be evidence for Genesis?

No, you would have to show evidence of God himself.

It is essentially impossible to find undeniable (not that last word, its important) proof of God within the natural world. I absolutely believe in God, but God made the world full of processes, made it to function as one big unit. That these systems work can be said to be a marvel, a very improbable occurance, etc. However, it is not irrefutable proof of God.

Secondly, you are confusing proof of a young earth with proof of God. Most Christians accept that the earth is NOT young. The young earth theory was fairly common prior to advent of science as we know it, but it was something assumed to be true. Only a few scholars would state firmly that they knew absolutely what was meant by Genesis creation story. The most common absolute statements were along the the lines of "we don't know what God's day is", etc.

It was only in very recent times that this idea that Genesis HAS to mean the earth was created in 6 revolutions of the Earth began to resurge. And, you have to ask yourself why, given the perponderance of evidence to the contrary those folks, who were NOT within the scientific community, would suddenly claim that all science is just wrong.

The answer lies not within Christianity, but in the effect of these teachings. Christ teaches us to represent the truth, not pass on lies. I know these things Creationists websites, etc try to declare to be false. Not simply believe, but KNOW, have seen the irrefutable proof. Claiming it does not exist does not make that claim valid. Sorry.

Neoteny,

What would you like to discuss?

PLAYER,

Did you read the word Genesis and figure Creation was meant by it? You say a number of things I do not understand maybe. You have seen irrefutable proof of something?

NOTE: I said Colorago and meant Colorado and said one or more thing wrong having to do with elevation perhaps... water from the Colorado River enters the Grand Canyon at 2,800 feet above sea level and the Grand Canyon has a top elevation of 6,900 or more feet maybe... did I read that the Kiabab Uplift itself was 10,000 feet above sea level and then subtract 4,000 from that in error?

lionz wrote:I'm not convinced anything at all is a coincidence maybe, but what can really be proven?

Actually, its clear you conceded the pyramid was obviously a coincidence and arbitrarily assigned values. Many things have been proven scientifically. What has been proven using the bible in contrast?

Lionz wrote:Neoteny,

What would you like to discuss?

The issue is not so much what we're discussing, but how we are discussing it. I'm ok with talking about multiple topics, but it has gotten excessive. If there's a single point you want to discuss, I'm ok with it. I don't have much to ask about since I'm familiar with most creationist arguments.

AAFitz,

I didn't do that by any means perhaps, but how about you go ahead and think that if you want? Can you define proven?

Lionz wrote:AAFitz,

I didn't do that by any means perhaps, but how about you go ahead and think that if you want? Can you define proven?

Actually you did, and Ill be happy to answer all your questions, why dont you go ahead and answer the last 50 poignant ones that were asked?

Which ones you were about to ask?

Go through the thread and pick out any that you see fit.

Doesnt this seem like a fair way to actually discuss a topic, and not just answer questions with questions?

Going back to evidence of god...

http://current.com/shows/infomania/9222 ... achers.htm