Conquer Club

dolomite13 wrote:What do you guys think about one minor tweak to the bonus structure? Currently the map has a +3 basic bonus, basically for doing nothing. I was thinking of still having that but attaching that to basic lands so that your first 11 basic lands would not really add anything as they are counted in the +3 minimum so once you got to 12 you would start to get that increased bonus.

No Thoughts?

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dolomite13 wrote:

dolomite13 wrote:What do you guys think about one minor tweak to the bonus structure? Currently the map has a +3 basic bonus, basically for doing nothing. I was thinking of still having that but attaching that to basic lands so that your first 11 basic lands would not really add anything as they are counted in the +3 minimum so once you got to 12 you would start to get that increased bonus.

No Thoughts?

=D13=

It could help...Could give a boost to those slow-starters, but hopefully wouldn't give a bigger boost to the fast-starters.

One more thought is that Wizards ability to jump around by taking only 2 territories that border each other gives them too much of an early advantage and allows them to grab the bonuses along the blood towers rather quickly. I would like to increase it from "2 territories that border blood towers = all territories that border blood towers are adjacent" to 3 territories. This is still fairly easily attainable but would slightly slow down progression in those games where people stack for several turns before moving out onto the map or trench games.

Another option is to make it work like the access to the forbidden lands and you would need to control territories that border at least 2 blood towers to make all territories that border blood towers adjacent.

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Horde and Underworld are still not being used in the games I have played. Is their value still too high? Should they be more like seas and be 1 or 2 neutral and maybe killer instead? would you use them to jump around the board then?

- Horde could be 2n and be required to grant the +1 per 3 basic land added bonus.

- Underworld could be Killer 1 and start with 1n ... then minion territories would be connected when you "sacrifice to" hold to the underworld. I think the bonus could stay the same.


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dolomite13 wrote:

dolomite13 wrote:What do you guys think about one minor tweak to the bonus structure? Currently the map has a +3 basic bonus, basically for doing nothing. I was thinking of still having that but attaching that to basic lands so that your first 11 basic lands would not really add anything as they are counted in the +3 minimum so once you got to 12 you would start to get that increased bonus.

No Thoughts?

=D13=

I'd approve a change like that. It would help equalize the difference in bonuses early game and help minimize the effects getting screwed by the dice early game have.

I have submitted the xml in a previous post to fix the bugs in the current beta. I have not fixed the map with fixes to a few typos as they are not necessary to be able to play the map.

I plan to submit some proposed changes for official approval this weekend so if anyone has anything to say about the current beta of the map please speak up now. I think we are closing in on what I feel is becoming a fun, challenging and somewhat balanced map.

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I am using map inspect from new panel interface on this map.
Map inspect tell me I can't attack forbidden land from M2 but I can.
And map inspect tell me I can attack S4 from M2, but I can't. I don't know is this is map related or map inspect related.

[Game]13873791 [/Game] I have human, comsic and wizards.

Donelladan wrote:I am using map inspect from new panel interface on this map.
Map inspect tell me I can't attack forbidden land from M2 but I can.
And map inspect tell me I can attack S4 from M2, but I can't. I don't know is this is map related or map inspect related.

Game 13873791 I have human, comsic and wizards.

Inspect related, the panels do not know how to use conditional borders.

Here are the proposed changes...

Any Thoughts?

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Bonuses
+1/3 (Min +3) attached to basic lands (as it should have been).
- No standard Territory Bonus back in effect.

Wizards
- Require holding territories that border 2 blood towers to allow the teleport (instead of 2 territories that border a blood tower)
- bonus unchanged

Barbarians
- Horde 3n (down from 5n)
- Horde required to grant the +1 per 3 basic land added bonus
- connection to favored territories unchanged

Demonic
- Underworld 3n (down from 5n)
- Basic bonus +1 per minion (removed the added +1/2)
- Underworld required for an additional +1 per minion bonus
- connection unchanged

Dwellers
- change the 4 caverns +2 to +4 as it is hard to get all 4 as you are spread across the map where you will no doubt run into opposition.

Cosmic
- change the 2 radiation +1* to 4 radiation +4 like dwellers and caverns. Net bonus is the same just harder to get to.

Seas
- changed to start 1n down from 2n
- now killer 1 down from 2

Gilligan wrote:

Donelladan wrote:I am using map inspect from new panel interface on this map.
Map inspect tell me I can't attack forbidden land from M2 but I can.
And map inspect tell me I can attack S4 from M2, but I can't. I don't know is this is map related or map inspect related.

Game 13873791 I have human, comsic and wizards.

Inspect related, the panels do not know how to use conditional borders.

Well, as long as the panels are not updated, I think this should be mentioned on the map. It's really misleading if you are used to follow panel inspect and it's saying wrong stuff

Donelladan wrote:

Gilligan wrote:

Donelladan wrote:I am using map inspect from new panel interface on this map.
Map inspect tell me I can't attack forbidden land from M2 but I can.
And map inspect tell me I can attack S4 from M2, but I can't. I don't know is this is map related or map inspect related.

Game 13873791 I have human, comsic and wizards.

Inspect related, the panels do not know how to use conditional borders.

Well, as long as the panels are not updated, I think this should be mentioned on the map. It's really misleading if you are used to follow panel inspect and it's saying wrong stuff

S4 and M2 also have a bug in the current XML so that may be resolved when we get the latest XML deployed. In any case it should be added to the site somewhere not the map as that is a site wide issue and will affect several maps.

D=13=

Here are the changes I want to make and a large map reflecting these changes.

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============================================================================

Bonuses
+1/3 (Min +3) attached to basic lands (as it should have been).
- No standard Territory Bonus back in effect.
This change should smooth out the early game just a bit so it is harder to knock someone off the map early and prety much keep them off the map.

Wizards
- Require holding territories that border 2 blood towers to allow the teleport (instead of 2 territories that border a blood tower)
Right now its too easy to take 2 territories and jump around the map for wizards. This will make it just a bit slower.

Barbarians
- Horde 3n (down from 5n)
- Horde required to grant the +1 per 3 basic land added bonus
This will make it necessary to take the horde to get the added bonus and may promote use of the horde as a way to travel around the board easier. I rarely see anyone use the horde as it is currently implemented.

Demonic
- Underworld 3n (down from 5n)
- Basic bonus +1 per minion (removed the added +1/2)
- Underworld required for an additional +1 per minion bonus
Similar to the horde the underworld seems to be unused by players. By tying an added bonus to it, it may now start seeing play.

Dwellers
- change the 4 caverns +2 to +4 as it is hard to get all 4 as you are spread across the map where you will no doubt run into opposition.
Being able to jump around the map for free is powerful but spreading out around the map can also work against you. This change will now grant a really good bonus provided you can get all 4 caverns.

Cosmic
- change the 2 radiation +1* to 4 radiation +4 like dwellers and caverns. Net bonus is the same just harder to get to.
Cosmic gets some nice abilities once they get to 2 territories but like dwellers they don't get rewarded for taking all 4 radiation. This increase will help that. And probably make keeping that 4th radiation out of the hands of cosmic all that muck more important.

Seas
- changed to start 1n down from 2n
- now killer 1 down from 2
With land being 3n and people leaving 1 troop behind quite often it can be much more attractive to go around seas that to cut through them for the aquatic player. This drop to 1n may make it worthwhile.

i haven't played this since the map got closed for a few month and i'm completely lost... so you don't start with the favoured territory you have in front of you, and how come you don't die without any tert?
also, I took 1 tert, and didn't fort out. ended assaults and it didn't allow me to do anything with my stack. so this will never fort out actually???

First time playing since all the changes and once you've taken one favoured territory you can't take another from your base.. That sucks.

You can attack out from your kingdom if you don't own any territories on the board. This was done to mix things up and allow people to get back in the game instead of being eliminated. It also allows people to get a bit more strategic about where they' start on the map, since you can now select one of four starting spots instead of being stuck with the one in front of your kingdom.

Personally I think the changes are good, though they do take a bit of getting used to.

Bug with cosmic: I am red. I have desert as favorite, and cosmic as power. I take the desert with a radiation, I get 4 per turn instead of 5. Screenshot added. My guess is it's a problem with radiation.

Please let us know when you take that turn. The new panels aren't totally synced with the new XML additions. What you actually get could be totally different than what the panel says.

dwellers needs to be rewritten
<continent>
<name>Dwellers - Caverns</name>
<bonuses>
<bonus required="2">1</bonus>
<bonus required="3">1</bonus>
<bonus required="4">1</bonus>
<bonus required="5">3</bonus>
</bonuses>
<components>
<territory>F1 - Caverns</territory>
<territory>T4 - Caverns</territory>
<territory>M2 - Caverns</territory>
<territory>S4 - Caverns</territory>
<territory type="mandatory">Dwellers</territory>
</components>
<required>2</required>

sirius is also correct, there is a mine in the cosmic bonus

didn't I submit an XML with that fixed?

can someone check that?

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dolomite13 wrote:didn't I submit an XML with that fixed?

can someone check that?

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Have you got the link, I'll send it to tnb again

"If you hold no basic land D,F,J,M,P,S,T,V you Kingdom may assault any of its favored territories. Otherwise they are not adjacent."

should be a "your" there

Gilligan wrote:Please let us know when you take that turn. The new panels aren't totally synced with the new XML additions. What you actually get could be totally different than what the panel says.

The log says the same thing as I stated in my earlier post:
2014-02-11 16:27:40 - SiriusCowKing received 1 troops for holding Sphinx - Favored
2014-02-11 16:27:40 - SiriusCowKing received 3 troops for 4 regions
2014-02-11 16:28:29 - SiriusCowKing deployed 4 troops on D4 - Radiation

I personally don't think that the horde and the underworld needs to give bonuses, but I do appreciate that they are down to 3 neutrals. I won several games using only the dwellers, undeworld and horde as my way to move around. From that you can get your 4 territories that gives units and basically own the map. Your decision in the end, just my thoughts.

Gilligan wrote:

dolomite13 wrote:didn't I submit an XML with that fixed?

can someone check that?

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Have you got the link, I'll send it to tnb again

Should be the one in the main post. I don't have access to my files as I'm still out of the country and on a borrowed laptop.

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Game 14002357

First turn I took P1, should have moved my men in, but didn't. Second turn deployed on Human (again a mistake since I forgot I can only attack my other favoured territories if I don't own a basic land), but when I came to fort out of Human I couldn't. How come - if I can attack P1, I should be able to fort it too.